SOG/GOG

[2drfischer@gmail.c]

5646477066666A050 wrote: I vote for Cherington for seeing what he has and still keeping more guys on scholarship than Pitt, Penn State, and WVU combined. 



Shed, when are you planing to start your LittleYield, Doofus, and Cherington comparisons? 




I'm giving BC a pass this year.  There was no intention that Nutting was going to spend money in the offseason to make this team competitive.  [highlight]I do, however, laugh at the people who say BC didn't know what he had.[/highlight]  He was an assistant GM for Toronto and its his job to know about other organizations as far as talent.  He might not know the farm system well, but he knew what the roster looked like.



I like BC's drafting already over Littlefield's even though I thought BC should have gone Detmers with the first pick over Gonzo (our starting pitching is dreadful on the MLB roster and in the system) and then go OSU catcher over the South Carolina arm.  We have zero catchers worth a crap.



Littlefield - funny story.  I'm down several years ago during Xmas visiting my parents in Naples, FL.  I'm heading to the pool and see this old timer wearing a Pirate baseball cap.  I look at him and say not too many people are caught dead wearing Pirates hats these days and I'm a big Pirate fan who grew up 90 miles north of Pittsburgh.  He grinned.  I said the owner was garbage and the GM might be worse.  Brought up the selection of Daniel Moskos that high, a guy that DL said would be a good setup man. You don't use that type of pick on a setup man that high with what was on the board and then blasted him for talking up Bobby Hill.



So, the guy gets up and says hope better days are coming ... in a Boston accent.  My father comes over and says I see you were talking to Dave Littlefield's father.   What was that conversation like.  My response ... don't ask.


I don't doubt BC had some knowledge of the Pirates roster and some of the players in the farm system, but it's hard to know how much.  The organization has been so poor for so long that I wonder how much any of the other GMs, especially those out of the NL Central, know about the organization's players.  We saw less than 10 players, maybe less than five, who came here over Huntington's tenure who had any kind of impact.  There hasn't been much for any other GM to look at.



I was one who said that I thought it was a good idea for him to assess what he had before he started making moves.  I would think an important part of that assessment would be getting to watch his players in both Spring Training workouts and through an initial part of the season.  Through that visual assessment by both he and his new staff, he'd be able to confirm, or change, any opinions he had of those players.  That's a six month process, not six years.



There are two things we all know, including BC.  First, he wasn't going to add free agents to his 25-man roster because Nutting wouldn't permit the spending.  Second, if he attempted to trade for better players, he has no players to trade to get them.  The system is bare.  The best he could've done was to deal away Bell and Reynolds (two good young players, the kind of player we all want) in exchange for minor league players (who may never get to the major leagues).  I don't see how that makes the Pirates better this year or even for the next two.



Because of Nutting, BC's going to have to rebuild the entire roster of players, from Pittsburgh on down, through the draft and international signings.  He's going to be hard pressed to get any good players in return for his current players.  It's sad that all we have is hope that he's better at player evaluation and development than Huntington was but, the good news is, NH set a particularly low bar.



The problem isn't Cherington, at least not yet.  The problem is the owner we have under the current system, matched-up with major league baseball overall.  Until the owners agree to become socialists and make all teams equal in terms of spending, the Pirates have little chance of ever winning another title.  Not because a new GM didn't turn over up to 25 players for 25 new ones during his first days on the job, but because he's been given no ammo to take into his fight. 



I don't like the situation any more than anyone else but that's the reality.

[WildwoodDave]

534845444D414E200 wrote: For the 7/25 game, Trevor Williams wins GOG for pitching batting practice to the Cardinals.  Get you votes ib before the next game.



current count



Williams - 1
Shedman, you missed my vote last night- Williams

[WildwoodDave]

092429383F2E39797A4B0 wrote: Current count:



Rodriguez - 4

Heredia - 1

so what you are saying Bobster is that there is no reason for optimism

Get your votes in for GOG before the start of the next game
I will start for Game 2

Trevor Williams for GOG for putting this anemic, pathetic offense in the hole early in the game. Not sure if Shedman is giving 1/2 Goats. If so 1/2 for Williams and 1/2 for the offense. If not, Williams
After 2 games our 1-2 starters are both 0-1 with ERAs of 4.76 and 7.36. Obviously it's 1 game apiece so stats mean little. But the point is that we already knew our 1-2 starters are no better than #4 starters on most teams and they both demonstrated that as soon as possible.   Our best starters are guys who can occasionally throw a scoreless inning. If you want more than that, you're looking at the wrong team. Add to that the fact that our BP is a collection of AAAA guys, we are not strong defensively and few hitters worry the opponent. There aren't going to be many games in the 60 where we praise our pitching.

[Bobster21]

7969685F4949452A0 wrote: I vote for Cherington for seeing what he has and still keeping more guys on scholarship than Pitt, Penn State, and WVU combined. 



Shed, when are you planing to start your LittleYield, Doofus, and Cherington comparisons? 




I'm giving BC a pass this year.  There was no intention that Nutting was going to spend money in the offseason to make this team competitive.  I do, however, laugh at the people who say BC didn't know what he had.  He was an assistant GM for Toronto and its his job to know about other organizations as far as talent.  He might not know the farm system well, but he knew what the roster looked like.



I like BC's drafting already over Littlefield's even though I thought BC should have gone Detmers with the first pick over Gonzo (our starting pitching is dreadful on the MLB roster and in the system) and then go OSU catcher over the South Carolina arm.  We have zero catchers worth a crap.



Littlefield - funny story.  I'm down several years ago during Xmas visiting my parents in Naples, FL.  I'm heading to the pool and see this old timer wearing a Pirate baseball cap.  I look at him and say not too many people are caught dead wearing Pirates hats these days and I'm a big Pirate fan who grew up 90 miles north of Pittsburgh.  He grinned.  I said the owner was garbage and the GM might be worse.  Brought up the selection of Daniel Moskos that high, a guy that DL said would be a good setup man. You don't use that type of pick on a setup man that high with what was on the board and then blasted him for talking up Bobby Hill.



So, the guy gets up and says hope better days are coming ... in a Boston accent.  My father comes over and says I see you were talking to Dave Littlefield's father.   What was that conversation like.  My response ... don't ask.
Imagine that you are an assistant GM in the AL and get hired as GM of a weak NL team. You'd like to hit the ground running and you've seen some of their players on occasion and heard things about prospects. But there's a pandemic going on and no one is playing. So you can't watch minor leaguers while getting feedback from their coaches. You'd have to rely on written evaluations and word of mouth but you've inherited an organization known for being very bad at evaluating their prospects and trading players away only to find out that another organization could immediately get from them what your organization never could. So how much are you wiling to make snap judgments about players? The minor league season is cancelled altogether and the abbreviated ST is a sham because the virus keeps some from even participating. And even when previous GMs had the benefit of a pandemic free offseason, a normal ST and a minor league camp, the owner eliminated many necessary moves by forcing them to work with a shoestring budget. And yet you are criticized for not having a more thorough knowledge of the players in your organization at all levels than your predecessor who was there for years and never seemed to know what he had.



BC might turn out to be a horrible GM. Or maybe he'll be good. But I have to laugh at the people who say BC should have a thorough knowledge of the talent in his new organization regardless of the fact that he only took over in mid November, players aren't playing or have barely played, and he should do so while relying on player evaluations that have been notoriously unreliable in the past. This team stinks. It reeks. But if anyone expected a new GM to come flying in wearing a red cape and saying, "Don't worry. I've got this. I know just what needs to be done" they are living in a fairy tale world. This is a realty messed up situation for any GM, much less a new one with no previous experience in this organization. Personally, I'd rather he waited until things normalize before making significant personal decisions that could lead to the same bad moves that were made in the past. But that kind of sanity is what passes for being an "apologist' these days. Oy vey.

[GermanTownship]

When you field a team?, that has four in the lineup, Heredia, Dyson, Murphy, and Evans, that were all basically scrubs, you deserve to lose. It’s not like other “real” teams were there trying to sign them. Personally, I feel that ownership wants to lose as many games that they can this year in order to get, not only the Number 1 pick in the draft, but also other high draft picks. Nutjob is fortunate that no fans are in attendance. It would be embarrassing to see the very low numbers if people were at the games. He is counting on Cherrington to do his magic with the drafts in the next few years.

[shedman]

current count



Williams - 2

Crick - 2

Nutting - 1

Cherington - 1

[GreenWeenie]

152037373C0537373C3B37520 wrote: I vote for Cherington for seeing what he has and still keeping more guys on scholarship than Pitt, Penn State, and WVU combined. 



Shed, when are you planing to start your LittleYield, Doofus, and Cherington comparisons? 




I'm giving BC a pass this year.  There was no intention that Nutting was going to spend money in the offseason to make this team competitive.  I do, however, laugh at the people who say BC didn't know what he had.  He was an assistant GM for Toronto and its his job to know about other organizations as far as talent.  He might not know the farm system well, but he knew what the roster looked like.



I like BC's drafting already over Littlefield's even though I thought BC should have gone Detmers with the first pick over Gonzo (our starting pitching is dreadful on the MLB roster and in the system) and then go OSU catcher over the South Carolina arm.  We have zero catchers worth a crap.



Littlefield - funny story.  I'm down several years ago during Xmas visiting my parents in Naples, FL.  I'm heading to the pool and see this old timer wearing a Pirate baseball cap.  I look at him and say not too many people are caught dead wearing Pirates hats these days and I'm a big Pirate fan who grew up 90 miles north of Pittsburgh.  He grinned.  I said the owner was garbage and the GM might be worse.  Brought up the selection of Daniel Moskos that high, a guy that DL said would be a good setup man. You don't use that type of pick on a setup man that high with what was on the board and then blasted him for talking up Bobby Hill.



So, the guy gets up and says hope better days are coming ... in a Boston accent.  My father comes over and says I see you were talking to Dave Littlefield's father.   What was that conversation like.  My response ... don't ask.
Imagine that you are an assistant GM in the AL and get hired as GM of a weak NL team. You'd like to hit the ground running and you've seen some of their players on occasion and heard things about prospects. But there's a pandemic going on and no one is playing. So you can't watch minor leaguers while getting feedback from their coaches. You'd have to rely on written evaluations and word of mouth but you've inherited an organization known for being very bad at evaluating their prospects and trading players away only to find out that another organization could immediately get from them what your organization never could. So how much are you wiling to make snap judgments about players? The minor league season is cancelled altogether and the abbreviated ST is a sham because the virus keeps some from even participating. And even when previous GMs had the benefit of a pandemic free offseason, a normal ST and a minor league camp, the owner eliminated many necessary moves by forcing them to work with a shoestring budget. And yet you are criticized for not having a more thorough knowledge of the players in your organization at all levels than your predecessor who was there for years and never seemed to know what he had.



BC might turn out to be a horrible GM. Or maybe he'll be good. But I have to laugh at the people who say BC should have a thorough knowledge of the talent in his new organization regardless of the fact that he only took over in mid November, players aren't playing or have barely played, and he should do so while relying on player evaluations that have been notoriously unreliable in the past. This team stinks. It reeks. But if anyone expected a new GM to come flying in wearing a red cape and saying, "Don't worry. I've got this. I know just what needs to be done" they are living in a fairy tale world. This is a realty messed up situation for any GM, much less a new one with no previous experience in this organization. Personally, I'd rather he waited until things normalize before making significant personal decisions that could lead to the same bad moves that were made in the past. But that kind of sanity is what passes for being an "apologist' these days. Oy vey.


If Cherington didn't see a single position in which he could make a significant improvment, then I don't know what else needs to be said.



One.  Not two.  Not three.  Not 26.  One.  Significant.



The pandemic didn't interfere with his ability to do it.  BOB may have.  He's our pandemic.



It's essentially the same roster as last year, so I expect essentially similar results.  Probably worse with the OJT coaching staff. 



The curve isn't flattening any day soon.



My suggestion? Mask up. Over your eyes!

[shedman]

The GOG ends up in a tie in the second game. The GOG standings are now:



Rodriguez - 1

Williams - 0.5

Crick - 0.5