427760606B5260606B6C60050 wrote: Until they give us more wins for our minor league clubs, it doesn't mean much to us, particularly while we're knee deep in a losing streak and among the worst clubs in the game.
We don't know whose suspects will succeed at the MLB level, nor do we know the busts. We do know that two of our young guys didn't even know what to do with first base, and one's already gone.
For 2021, I think the results speak for themselves. I don't see how there can be an argument other than to say, "we're not the Diamondbacks." So, there is that.
I haven't seen anything from poor Surg since he said"tonights the night. As for me I just turned it on and will probably turn it off. MY sister and husband are here from the Burgh.Should be considerate and talk to them. Should mention that my sister was married at the cove behind Left Field and the reception was in PNC Bob will do anything to make a buck
Official Game Thread - 615 - Shelty's Stooges @ The Nats
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
Official Game Thread - 615 - Shelty's Stooges @ The Nats
My guess is Anderson likes Pittsburgh and doesn't want to be dealt to a contender.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Official Game Thread - 615 - Shelty's Stooges @ The Nats
Seeing as how we've had four winning seasons since 1993, I think we all know what to expect. Some don't want to face it. Others do.
Success will be based on a large part, on how successful the club is at talent retention. We were able to keep the best player that the team's had since Barry Bonds only when he was willing to sign a very team-friendly extension. Even then, the Pirates never had any intention of fulfilling that entire contract. I remember how critical fans and Coonelly were when the Marlins backloaded Stanton's contract. We did the exact same thing, only with far fewer dollars.
I don't know who the first player is going to be to sign an extension. But, it's going to take a lot more than just one for the team to make the jump again.
Success will be based on a large part, on how successful the club is at talent retention. We were able to keep the best player that the team's had since Barry Bonds only when he was willing to sign a very team-friendly extension. Even then, the Pirates never had any intention of fulfilling that entire contract. I remember how critical fans and Coonelly were when the Marlins backloaded Stanton's contract. We did the exact same thing, only with far fewer dollars.
I don't know who the first player is going to be to sign an extension. But, it's going to take a lot more than just one for the team to make the jump again.
Official Game Thread - 615 - Shelty's Stooges @ The Nats
7B5E5D5D48635E565443310 wrote: Shedman
I believe you are off-base on BC.
His trades have resulted in bringing new talent into the organization.
Unfortunately, ownership provides him a budget that is the equivalent of the amount I earned at a job when I was a teenager; $1,00/hour for 4 hours a week (1 hour per day).
BC, like any GM, would obviously like to sign better free agents than Anderson or Cahill and to endlessly need to scrounge through the waiver wire for any potential morsels of talent, but hey, what can you do when you have a payroll in the range of $40 mil and there is an unproductive player on the team who is pulling down $13 mil or so.
That said, my opinion of BC will waiver if he fails to dump Shelton and most of the coaching staff at the end of this season.
_______
MaineBucs,
Respectfully, I disagree. I haven't seen any "talent" added to the system(in fact, Cherington has been busy salary dumping what little talent we had). Rather what I see is an endless stream of LMG's who can't hit major league pitching, while we all complain about Polanco and Shelton. In Cherington's 1st year, we had the worst record in all of baseball while he was "seeing what he has". In his 2nd year, there are only 2 teams in all of baseball with a worse record. I don't think he has any idea what he is doing and getting rid of Shelton and Polanco won't result in any improvement. I don't think Shelton is a very good Manager, but no Manager could win with the team that Cherington puts on the field. He appears to me to be the very definition of an imbecile.
Hey shedman I am sick of this game and I am also getting tired and sick of your "respectfully" disagreeing with someone when all you have to offer is the same old BS about salary dumping BC. If you had any smarts Nutting would hire you and let you do the job if you worked for $1 per year. Hey, even that is too much for your expertise.
_________
I am also sick and tired hearing about all the same old BS about all the talent Cherington has added when he has done absolutely nothing. I will admit that I have no expertise, but even I could do a better job than this imbecile Cherington.
I agree on Shelton. Worst Manager since Russell the brain dead zombie. Totally disagree on BC. You need to follow some of the minor leaguers he has acquired. The Musgrove trade is looking good. We have seen Bednar, Endy Rodriguez may solve our catching situation, the lefty Cruz is putting up good numbers. In the Taillon trade to the Yanks BC may have acquired the Minor League pitcher of the year in Roancy Contreras. He is putting up incredible numbers for Altoona. Maikol Escotto a throw in in the deal is putting up good numbers in Bradenton. His draft in 2020 was excellent. In the last year the Pirates farm system has moved from 16th to 7th. I would call that successful.
_______
I disagree on Shelton and Cherington. While Shelton is not the greatest, no Manager could win wityh the mess that Cherington has created. Musgrove (no hitter) for suspects who will probably never play in the major leagues. Taillon (future ace) for more suspects. Bell for nothing. I would call that a dismal failure.
I believe you are off-base on BC.
His trades have resulted in bringing new talent into the organization.
Unfortunately, ownership provides him a budget that is the equivalent of the amount I earned at a job when I was a teenager; $1,00/hour for 4 hours a week (1 hour per day).
BC, like any GM, would obviously like to sign better free agents than Anderson or Cahill and to endlessly need to scrounge through the waiver wire for any potential morsels of talent, but hey, what can you do when you have a payroll in the range of $40 mil and there is an unproductive player on the team who is pulling down $13 mil or so.
That said, my opinion of BC will waiver if he fails to dump Shelton and most of the coaching staff at the end of this season.
_______
MaineBucs,
Respectfully, I disagree. I haven't seen any "talent" added to the system(in fact, Cherington has been busy salary dumping what little talent we had). Rather what I see is an endless stream of LMG's who can't hit major league pitching, while we all complain about Polanco and Shelton. In Cherington's 1st year, we had the worst record in all of baseball while he was "seeing what he has". In his 2nd year, there are only 2 teams in all of baseball with a worse record. I don't think he has any idea what he is doing and getting rid of Shelton and Polanco won't result in any improvement. I don't think Shelton is a very good Manager, but no Manager could win with the team that Cherington puts on the field. He appears to me to be the very definition of an imbecile.
Hey shedman I am sick of this game and I am also getting tired and sick of your "respectfully" disagreeing with someone when all you have to offer is the same old BS about salary dumping BC. If you had any smarts Nutting would hire you and let you do the job if you worked for $1 per year. Hey, even that is too much for your expertise.
_________
I am also sick and tired hearing about all the same old BS about all the talent Cherington has added when he has done absolutely nothing. I will admit that I have no expertise, but even I could do a better job than this imbecile Cherington.
I agree on Shelton. Worst Manager since Russell the brain dead zombie. Totally disagree on BC. You need to follow some of the minor leaguers he has acquired. The Musgrove trade is looking good. We have seen Bednar, Endy Rodriguez may solve our catching situation, the lefty Cruz is putting up good numbers. In the Taillon trade to the Yanks BC may have acquired the Minor League pitcher of the year in Roancy Contreras. He is putting up incredible numbers for Altoona. Maikol Escotto a throw in in the deal is putting up good numbers in Bradenton. His draft in 2020 was excellent. In the last year the Pirates farm system has moved from 16th to 7th. I would call that successful.
_______
I disagree on Shelton and Cherington. While Shelton is not the greatest, no Manager could win wityh the mess that Cherington has created. Musgrove (no hitter) for suspects who will probably never play in the major leagues. Taillon (future ace) for more suspects. Bell for nothing. I would call that a dismal failure.
Official Game Thread - 615 - Shelty's Stooges @ The Nats
Let's at least score a few runs so the run differential doesn't increase by 5 runs again.
Official Game Thread - 615 - Shelty's Stooges @ The Nats
Polanco gets us on the board.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Official Game Thread - 615 - Shelty's Stooges @ The Nats
726964656C606F010 wrote: Shedman
I believe you are off-base on BC.
His trades have resulted in bringing new talent into the organization.
Unfortunately, ownership provides him a budget that is the equivalent of the amount I earned at a job when I was a teenager; $1,00/hour for 4 hours a week (1 hour per day).
BC, like any GM, would obviously like to sign better free agents than Anderson or Cahill and to endlessly need to scrounge through the waiver wire for any potential morsels of talent, but hey, what can you do when you have a payroll in the range of $40 mil and there is an unproductive player on the team who is pulling down $13 mil or so.
That said, my opinion of BC will waiver if he fails to dump Shelton and most of the coaching staff at the end of this season.
_______
MaineBucs,
Respectfully, I disagree. I haven't seen any "talent" added to the system(in fact, Cherington has been busy salary dumping what little talent we had). Rather what I see is an endless stream of LMG's who can't hit major league pitching, while we all complain about Polanco and Shelton. In Cherington's 1st year, we had the worst record in all of baseball while he was "seeing what he has". In his 2nd year, there are only 2 teams in all of baseball with a worse record. I don't think he has any idea what he is doing and getting rid of Shelton and Polanco won't result in any improvement. I don't think Shelton is a very good Manager, but no Manager could win with the team that Cherington puts on the field. He appears to me to be the very definition of an imbecile.
Hey shedman I am sick of this game and I am also getting tired and sick of your "respectfully" disagreeing with someone when all you have to offer is the same old BS about salary dumping BC. If you had any smarts Nutting would hire you and let you do the job if you worked for $1 per year. Hey, even that is too much for your expertise.
_________
I am also sick and tired hearing about all the same old BS about all the talent Cherington has added when he has done absolutely nothing. I will admit that I have no expertise, but even I could do a better job than this imbecile Cherington.
I agree on Shelton. Worst Manager since Russell the brain dead zombie. Totally disagree on BC. You need to follow some of the minor leaguers he has acquired. The Musgrove trade is looking good. We have seen Bednar, Endy Rodriguez may solve our catching situation, the lefty Cruz is putting up good numbers. In the Taillon trade to the Yanks BC may have acquired the Minor League pitcher of the year in Roancy Contreras. He is putting up incredible numbers for Altoona. Maikol Escotto a throw in in the deal is putting up good numbers in Bradenton. His draft in 2020 was excellent. In the last year the Pirates farm system has moved from 16th to 7th. I would call that successful.
_______
I disagree on Shelton and Cherington. While Shelton is not the greatest, no Manager could win wityh the mess that Cherington has created. Musgrove (no hitter) for suspects who will probably never play in the major leagues. Taillon (future ace) for more suspects. Bell for nothing. I would call that a dismal failure.
I'll pump the brakes on Taillon being a future ace. I think that's far from any sure thing, and probably not even all that likely. I'll give a pass on him for the time being.
I believe you are off-base on BC.
His trades have resulted in bringing new talent into the organization.
Unfortunately, ownership provides him a budget that is the equivalent of the amount I earned at a job when I was a teenager; $1,00/hour for 4 hours a week (1 hour per day).
BC, like any GM, would obviously like to sign better free agents than Anderson or Cahill and to endlessly need to scrounge through the waiver wire for any potential morsels of talent, but hey, what can you do when you have a payroll in the range of $40 mil and there is an unproductive player on the team who is pulling down $13 mil or so.
That said, my opinion of BC will waiver if he fails to dump Shelton and most of the coaching staff at the end of this season.
_______
MaineBucs,
Respectfully, I disagree. I haven't seen any "talent" added to the system(in fact, Cherington has been busy salary dumping what little talent we had). Rather what I see is an endless stream of LMG's who can't hit major league pitching, while we all complain about Polanco and Shelton. In Cherington's 1st year, we had the worst record in all of baseball while he was "seeing what he has". In his 2nd year, there are only 2 teams in all of baseball with a worse record. I don't think he has any idea what he is doing and getting rid of Shelton and Polanco won't result in any improvement. I don't think Shelton is a very good Manager, but no Manager could win with the team that Cherington puts on the field. He appears to me to be the very definition of an imbecile.
Hey shedman I am sick of this game and I am also getting tired and sick of your "respectfully" disagreeing with someone when all you have to offer is the same old BS about salary dumping BC. If you had any smarts Nutting would hire you and let you do the job if you worked for $1 per year. Hey, even that is too much for your expertise.
_________
I am also sick and tired hearing about all the same old BS about all the talent Cherington has added when he has done absolutely nothing. I will admit that I have no expertise, but even I could do a better job than this imbecile Cherington.
I agree on Shelton. Worst Manager since Russell the brain dead zombie. Totally disagree on BC. You need to follow some of the minor leaguers he has acquired. The Musgrove trade is looking good. We have seen Bednar, Endy Rodriguez may solve our catching situation, the lefty Cruz is putting up good numbers. In the Taillon trade to the Yanks BC may have acquired the Minor League pitcher of the year in Roancy Contreras. He is putting up incredible numbers for Altoona. Maikol Escotto a throw in in the deal is putting up good numbers in Bradenton. His draft in 2020 was excellent. In the last year the Pirates farm system has moved from 16th to 7th. I would call that successful.
_______
I disagree on Shelton and Cherington. While Shelton is not the greatest, no Manager could win wityh the mess that Cherington has created. Musgrove (no hitter) for suspects who will probably never play in the major leagues. Taillon (future ace) for more suspects. Bell for nothing. I would call that a dismal failure.
I'll pump the brakes on Taillon being a future ace. I think that's far from any sure thing, and probably not even all that likely. I'll give a pass on him for the time being.
-
Bobster21
Official Game Thread - 615 - Shelty's Stooges @ The Nats
724750505B6250505B5C50350 wrote: Seeing as how we've had four winning seasons since 1993, I think we all know what to expect. Some don't want to face it. Others do.
Success will be based on a large part, on how successful the club is at talent retention. We were able to keep the best player that the team's had since Barry Bonds only when he was willing to sign a very team-friendly extension. Even then, the Pirates never had any intention of fulfilling that entire contract. I remember how critical fans and Coonelly were when the Marlins backloaded Stanton's contract. We did the exact same thing, only with far fewer dollars.
I don't know who the first player is going to be to sign an extension. But, it's going to take a lot more than just one for the team to make the jump again.
I don't think talent retention is a realistic option. What good player would want to stay when he could leave? Not unless the Pirates significantly overpaid and that won't happen. The plan seems to be to obtain talent in the minors at each level to keep feeding the MLB roster for a period of years since good players will be leaving. Keeping their good players would be a much better plan. But Nutting won't overpay and there's no other reason for those players to stay if they have a chance to get away and spend a good portion of their career with a better organization.
It seems to me that BC realizes this and is trying to improve the team much as possible via trades for prospects with the understanding that Nutting won't pay to keep or obtain talent so there's no other way. It's far from ideal and not what I or other fans would prefer. But these are the Pirates.
Success will be based on a large part, on how successful the club is at talent retention. We were able to keep the best player that the team's had since Barry Bonds only when he was willing to sign a very team-friendly extension. Even then, the Pirates never had any intention of fulfilling that entire contract. I remember how critical fans and Coonelly were when the Marlins backloaded Stanton's contract. We did the exact same thing, only with far fewer dollars.
I don't know who the first player is going to be to sign an extension. But, it's going to take a lot more than just one for the team to make the jump again.
I don't think talent retention is a realistic option. What good player would want to stay when he could leave? Not unless the Pirates significantly overpaid and that won't happen. The plan seems to be to obtain talent in the minors at each level to keep feeding the MLB roster for a period of years since good players will be leaving. Keeping their good players would be a much better plan. But Nutting won't overpay and there's no other reason for those players to stay if they have a chance to get away and spend a good portion of their career with a better organization.
It seems to me that BC realizes this and is trying to improve the team much as possible via trades for prospects with the understanding that Nutting won't pay to keep or obtain talent so there's no other way. It's far from ideal and not what I or other fans would prefer. But these are the Pirates.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Official Game Thread - 615 - Shelty's Stooges @ The Nats
163B36272031266665540 wrote: Seeing as how we've had four winning seasons since 1993, I think we all know what to expect. Some don't want to face it. Others do.
Success will be based on a large part, on how successful the club is at talent retention. We were able to keep the best player that the team's had since Barry Bonds only when he was willing to sign a very team-friendly extension. Even then, the Pirates never had any intention of fulfilling that entire contract. I remember how critical fans and Coonelly were when the Marlins backloaded Stanton's contract. We did the exact same thing, only with far fewer dollars.
I don't know who the first player is going to be to sign an extension. But, it's going to take a lot more than just one for the team to make the jump again.
I don't think talent retention is a realistic option. What good player would want to stay when he could leave? Not unless the Pirates significantly overpaid and that won't happen. The plan seems to be to obtain talent in the minors at each level to keep feeding the MLB roster for a period of years since good players will be leaving. Keeping their good players would be a much better plan. But Nutting won't overpay and there's no other reason for those players to stay if they have a chance to get away and spend a good portion of their career with a better organization.
It seems to me that BC realizes this and is trying to improve the team much as possible via trades for prospects with the understanding that Nutting won't pay to keep or obtain talent so there's no other way. It's far from ideal and not what I or other fans would prefer. But these are the Pirates.
Andrew McCutchen did- twice. He signed an extension. I assume that he was telling the truth when he said that he wanted to remain in The Burgh. He and his family lived here. (Do they still live in the area?)
But, overall- I agree with you. There will be a player here and there, who, like Andrew- will want to stay. Not sure if enough will who can help the club.
I think Ben's plan is to just acquire as many guys as he can and hope that some will pan out. Then, he'll keep churning.
Since other clubs will go about business in other ways, I don't hold many high hopes for the brass ring. I think that we'll see some periods of better performance, though. We'll make the Wild Card every so often. After that, it's anyone's guess.
Success will be based on a large part, on how successful the club is at talent retention. We were able to keep the best player that the team's had since Barry Bonds only when he was willing to sign a very team-friendly extension. Even then, the Pirates never had any intention of fulfilling that entire contract. I remember how critical fans and Coonelly were when the Marlins backloaded Stanton's contract. We did the exact same thing, only with far fewer dollars.
I don't know who the first player is going to be to sign an extension. But, it's going to take a lot more than just one for the team to make the jump again.
I don't think talent retention is a realistic option. What good player would want to stay when he could leave? Not unless the Pirates significantly overpaid and that won't happen. The plan seems to be to obtain talent in the minors at each level to keep feeding the MLB roster for a period of years since good players will be leaving. Keeping their good players would be a much better plan. But Nutting won't overpay and there's no other reason for those players to stay if they have a chance to get away and spend a good portion of their career with a better organization.
It seems to me that BC realizes this and is trying to improve the team much as possible via trades for prospects with the understanding that Nutting won't pay to keep or obtain talent so there's no other way. It's far from ideal and not what I or other fans would prefer. But these are the Pirates.
Andrew McCutchen did- twice. He signed an extension. I assume that he was telling the truth when he said that he wanted to remain in The Burgh. He and his family lived here. (Do they still live in the area?)
But, overall- I agree with you. There will be a player here and there, who, like Andrew- will want to stay. Not sure if enough will who can help the club.
I think Ben's plan is to just acquire as many guys as he can and hope that some will pan out. Then, he'll keep churning.
Since other clubs will go about business in other ways, I don't hold many high hopes for the brass ring. I think that we'll see some periods of better performance, though. We'll make the Wild Card every so often. After that, it's anyone's guess.
Official Game Thread - 615 - Shelty's Stooges @ The Nats
023720202B1220202B2C20450 wrote: Seeing as how we've had four winning seasons since 1993, I think we all know what to expect. Some don't want to face it. Others do.
Success will be based on a large part, on how successful the club is at talent retention. We were able to keep the best player that the team's had since Barry Bonds only when he was willing to sign a very team-friendly extension. Even then, the Pirates never had any intention of fulfilling that entire contract. I remember how critical fans and Coonelly were when the Marlins backloaded Stanton's contract. We did the exact same thing, only with far fewer dollars.
I don't know who the first player is going to be to sign an extension. But, it's going to take a lot more than just one for the team to make the jump again.
I don't think talent retention is a realistic option. What good player would want to stay when he could leave? Not unless the Pirates significantly overpaid and that won't happen. The plan seems to be to obtain talent in the minors at each level to keep feeding the MLB roster for a period of years since good players will be leaving. Keeping their good players would be a much better plan. But Nutting won't overpay and there's no other reason for those players to stay if they have a chance to get away and spend a good portion of their career with a better organization.
It seems to me that BC realizes this and is trying to improve the team much as possible via trades for prospects with the understanding that Nutting won't pay to keep or obtain talent so there's no other way. It's far from ideal and not what I or other fans would prefer. But these are the Pirates.
Andrew McCutchen did- twice. He signed an extension. I assume that he was telling the truth when he said that he wanted to remain in The Burgh. He and his family lived here. (Do they still live in the area?)
But, overall- I agree with you. There will be a player here and there, who, like Andrew- will want to stay. Not sure if enough will who can help the club.
I think Ben's plan is to just acquire as many guys as he can and hope that some will pan out. Then, he'll keep churning.
Since other clubs will go about business in other ways, I don't hold many high hopes for the brass ring. I think that we'll see some periods of better performance, though. We'll make the Wild Card every so often. After that, it's anyone's guess.
______
I think Cherington's plan is to sell off every player who is above league minimum and keep promising a future that will never arrive in Pittsburgh. Some will be happy with that plan until such time as he is fired. Then everyone will say that he was a bad GM. I am just ahead of time in my evaluation of Cherington.
Success will be based on a large part, on how successful the club is at talent retention. We were able to keep the best player that the team's had since Barry Bonds only when he was willing to sign a very team-friendly extension. Even then, the Pirates never had any intention of fulfilling that entire contract. I remember how critical fans and Coonelly were when the Marlins backloaded Stanton's contract. We did the exact same thing, only with far fewer dollars.
I don't know who the first player is going to be to sign an extension. But, it's going to take a lot more than just one for the team to make the jump again.
I don't think talent retention is a realistic option. What good player would want to stay when he could leave? Not unless the Pirates significantly overpaid and that won't happen. The plan seems to be to obtain talent in the minors at each level to keep feeding the MLB roster for a period of years since good players will be leaving. Keeping their good players would be a much better plan. But Nutting won't overpay and there's no other reason for those players to stay if they have a chance to get away and spend a good portion of their career with a better organization.
It seems to me that BC realizes this and is trying to improve the team much as possible via trades for prospects with the understanding that Nutting won't pay to keep or obtain talent so there's no other way. It's far from ideal and not what I or other fans would prefer. But these are the Pirates.
Andrew McCutchen did- twice. He signed an extension. I assume that he was telling the truth when he said that he wanted to remain in The Burgh. He and his family lived here. (Do they still live in the area?)
But, overall- I agree with you. There will be a player here and there, who, like Andrew- will want to stay. Not sure if enough will who can help the club.
I think Ben's plan is to just acquire as many guys as he can and hope that some will pan out. Then, he'll keep churning.
Since other clubs will go about business in other ways, I don't hold many high hopes for the brass ring. I think that we'll see some periods of better performance, though. We'll make the Wild Card every so often. After that, it's anyone's guess.
______
I think Cherington's plan is to sell off every player who is above league minimum and keep promising a future that will never arrive in Pittsburgh. Some will be happy with that plan until such time as he is fired. Then everyone will say that he was a bad GM. I am just ahead of time in my evaluation of Cherington.