OnlyBucs

2F242C2025243F7A7C0B322A2324246528244B0 wrote: I just don't see the return helping the 2018 Pirates.  I hope I am wrong if it happens, but I see the return being younger players who are a few years away.  I doubt they would get some top rookie now in return. 



Trading Cole could really help the future.  The question is how many years from now.  Will the return help the current players like Nova, Taillon, Marte, Cervelli and Polanco?  These guys just signed (not Taillon) and have expiring contracts. 
I agree, Dog. It'll be another cycle of prospects. Some will work out some won't. And where holes remain to be filled, the cheapest option will be chosen. The Pirates aren't going to build like Houston has done. Because the Astros weren't afraid to add some key pieces and raise their payroll to middle of the pack (#18). They added McCann, Beltran, Aoki, Reddick and even overpaid Charlie Morton (but that's their problem) to a core of good young players. The Pirates can go thru another rebuilding cycle if they want and develop another group of good young players. But we know they won't add productive players to fill remaining holes and strengthen the team if it takes them out of their comfort zone of being 24th or 25th in payroll. Building a winner is generally a 2-step process: (1) developing as much home grown talent as possible (which wisely keeps costs down) and (2) adding a few key pieces to fill the remaining holes and put the team over the top (which requires more than minimal spending). The Pirates will only go halfway in this formula. We've seen KC and now Houston follow it. But when it appeared the Pirates were on the threshold and only needed to add a few key pieces, they went into a shell and even lowered payroll while leaving gaping holes on the roster. So now we''re talking about what they can get for their players to start the process over again. What's the point?

I disagree as they have shown they brought in pieces to help the team.  Martin, Burnett, Cervelli, Liriano, Nova, Volquez, and Kang to name a few.  They even added at the trading deadline with Morneau, Byrd, Nova, Soria, Happ, etc. 



It's like the Pirates get ridiculed for building a farm system and many home grown players who are cheap and in place. 



I say good job to the Astros, but is that because they didn't develop that many players?  They have five guys over the age of 30 starting for them.  They also have one of the best players in the game making $535K a year. 



It's nice to see the Astros rebuilt.  It wasn't long ago they were losing 100 games in multiple seasons in a row.  They had to add more to their roster (and payroll) unlike the Pirates.  They got worse after their playoff appearances too.

It might end up being even more interesting decisions than we know.  What if the division remains this weak through the next few months?  I don't think our team is that good, no, but I could see Milwaukee falling off and us being in the race until the end despite our best intentions.

The cheapest option was to trade McCutchen in the off season and they didn't do it. Or really trade anyone and they didn't do it?? I wonder why they signed Nova and Hudson? That cost money, like millions.

What about Nova. He has been outstanding and signed on the cheap. What type of return would he bring back? I bet there are quite a few teams kicking themselves for now signing him.

what about the Mets?  Their pitching is in shambles, they have some nice players.  I would take Conforto and Rosario for Cole and call it a day.

3B30383431302B6E681F263E373030713C305F0 wrote: The cheapest option was to trade McCutchen in the off season and they didn't do it.  Or really trade anyone and they didn't do it??  I wonder why they signed Nova and Hudson?  That cost money, like millions.




Cool. Thanks Mr. Nutting for the 95 mil opening day payroll. We know you could have made it 83 instead.



Thanks for spending when you didn't have to.

6B7C717575717B732B180 wrote: what about the Mets?  Their pitching is in shambles, they have some nice players.  I would take Conforto and Rosario for Cole and call it a day.




I'm glad you aren't the gm. That would be a terrible return for Cole.

070C04080D0C175254231A020B0C0C4D000C630 wrote: I disagree as they have shown they brought in pieces to help the team.  Martin, Burnett, Cervelli, Liriano, Nova, Volquez, and Kang to name a few.  They even added at the trading deadline with Morneau, Byrd, Nova, Soria, Happ, etc. 



It's like the Pirates get ridiculed for building a farm system and many home grown players who are cheap and in place. 



I say good job to the Astros, but is that because they didn't develop that many players?  They have five guys over the age of 30 starting for them.  They also have one of the best players in the game making $535K a year. 



It's nice to see the Astros rebuilt.  It wasn't long ago they were losing 100 games in multiple seasons in a row.  They had to add more to their roster (and payroll) unlike the Pirates.  They got worse after their playoff appearances too.






Let's face facts here ... all of the names you mentioned or most of them had issues when Pittsburgh acquired them or signed them.  They weren't top flight performers.  They were guys looking to re-establish their careers.  Most of those guys didn't have much value when we got them.  So, its not like we went out and got guys trending in the right direction with their careers.  The only thing is most of those guys did re-establish themselves.  When the deals were made, they were meh?  No one thought most of those names would do much of anything.  Pittsburgh was lucky. Those weren't pieces that you could honestly say would be of serious help at the time.

363F372628520 wrote: The cheapest option was to trade McCutchen in the off season and they didn't do it.  Or really trade anyone and they didn't do it??  I wonder why they signed Nova and Hudson?  That cost money, like millions.




Cool.  Thanks Mr. Nutting for the 95 mil opening day payroll.   We know you could have made it 83 instead.



Thanks for spending when you didn't have to.


I laughed. I always think Dog is part of the Pirates FO based on his posts. If not, he goes with the company line very well in a sense in which he should work for the Pirates ... just not in a management capacity.