OnlyBucs

I wish when Marte returns he would lose that certain approach he has that is sort of non showlant. It appears sometimes he has a very cocky attitude almost like that hot dog player who used to play for the Brewers. Sorry his name escapes me, but he and Cole had words a couple seasons ago, and it caused an on the field fight.

7D71702B222B232E29362C1B0 wrote: I wish when Marte returns he would lose that certain approach he has that is sort of non showlant. It appears sometimes he has a very cocky attitude almost like that hot dog player who used to play for the Brewers. Sorry his name escapes me, but he and Cole had words a couple seasons ago, and it caused an on the field fight.


Carlos Gomez. He gave Travis Snider a suckerpunch, shiner during that incident.

I think Marte comes off cocky because he isn't a smart player. He uses his talent and always has been "the best" on the field. I doubt he will lose his speed and arm after no PED usage. It's hard to teach those aspects of the game.



Back to McCutchen, management was right in not trading him. Even though so many got on them for asking for more and not moving him. It is funny to me that people now don't want to move McCutchen. The people who were glad he wasn't traded are/were considered "homers" or "ownership apologist" even though those people were right. (not meaning just this board, but everywhere a potential trade was discussed)

404B434F4A4B501513645D454C4B4B0A474B240 wrote: I think Marte comes off cocky because he isn't a smart player.  He uses his talent and always has been "the best" on the field.  I doubt he will lose his speed and arm after no PED usage.  It's hard to teach those aspects of the game.



Back to McCutchen, management was right in not trading him.  Even though so many got on them for asking for more and not moving him.  It is funny to me that people now don't want to move McCutchen.  The people who were glad he wasn't traded are/were considered "homers" or "ownership apologist" even though those people were right.  (not meaning just this board, but everywhere a potential trade was discussed)


The fact is that no one 'knew' Cutch was going to return to his current level of play. If a person wanted to keep the Cutch who was struggling for more than a season their reasoning was based on faith. While there's nothing wrong with being a 'homer' blinded by faith there's nothing right about the logic in keeping an expensive, aging player in steep decline.

So, there is no logic in ever predicting a player's performance?  It's just guesswork? 



Sorry, I don't buy that.  It was even pointed out how hard he was hitting the ball last year.  Projections can be made based on several aspects.  Huntington stuck by what he thought McCutchen was worth based on past performance and what he will do in the future. All GMs do that when making a trade.

4B6F7B73761A0 wrote: I think Marte comes off cocky because he isn't a smart player.  He uses his talent and always has been "the best" on the field.  I doubt he will lose his speed and arm after no PED usage.  It's hard to teach those aspects of the game.



Back to McCutchen, management was right in not trading him.  Even though so many got on them for asking for more and not moving him.  It is funny to me that people now don't want to move McCutchen.  The people who were glad he wasn't traded are/were considered "homers" or "ownership apologist" even though those people were right.  (not meaning just this board, but everywhere a potential trade was discussed)


The fact is that no one 'knew' Cutch was going to return to his current level of play. If a person wanted to keep the Cutch who was struggling for more than a season their reasoning was based on faith. While there's nothing wrong with being a 'homer' blinded by faith there's nothing right about the logic in keeping an expensive, aging player in steep decline.



Well just about every preseason publication predicted that Cutch would bounce back. ZIPS had him at .276/.370/.474 while not MVP caliber still pretty good. That would give him an .848 OPS.

76776C7D6B2B2C180 wrote: I think Marte comes off cocky because he isn't a smart player.  He uses his talent and always has been "the best" on the field.  I doubt he will lose his speed and arm after no PED usage.  It's hard to teach those aspects of the game.



Back to McCutchen, management was right in not trading him.  Even though so many got on them for asking for more and not moving him.  It is funny to me that people now don't want to move McCutchen.  The people who were glad he wasn't traded are/were considered "homers" or "ownership apologist" even though those people were right.  (not meaning just this board, but everywhere a potential trade was discussed)


The fact is that no one 'knew' Cutch was going to return to his current level of play. If a person wanted to keep the Cutch who was struggling for more than a season their reasoning was based on faith. While there's nothing wrong with being a 'homer' blinded by faith there's nothing right about the logic in keeping an expensive, aging player in steep decline.



Well just about every preseason publication predicted that Cutch would bounce back. ZIPS had him at .276/.370/.474 while not MVP caliber still pretty good. That would give him an .848 OPS.




Whatever predictive value those publications have they're still just guessing. Yes, educated guessing but guessing. I'll argue that his career high in strikeouts, his career low in walks (for a full season), his career low in stolen bases and base stealing percentage, his league worst -25 defensive runs saved above average were all indicative of his physical skills eroding. We knew his offensive decline was historically unique and given his poor performance in those other parameters I think it would be an equally educated guess to say he was in an irreversible decline.



No one 'knew' with certainty what Cutch's future performance would be but his last month offensively has been at an MVP level. I was wrong- I didn't think he could rebound, but my reasoning was based on what I saw. I didn't criticize others for feeling otherwise but I felt that they weren't seeing what I was. You saw the stat that indicated he was hitting the ball hard but was encountering some bad luck so you felt that he would rebound. Did you honestly envision Cutch being capable of hitting .400 or OPSing over 1.200 for a month? Even if you didn't you were still more correct about Cutch than I was. But is it due to his luck evening out or the correction of the swing? And if it's the swing then I'd love to know who predicted that.

As a defender, he's terrible.  As a baserunner, he's terrible.  He's demonstrated declining skills, a propensity for disappearing at the plate for large stretches at the beginning of seasons and he's a showboater.



If we want to talk probability, the probability that a guy can disappear into the abyss of a replacement level player for a full season, while healthy, and then return to stardom seems unlikely.   There's something wrong with him.  Multiple things actually.



Use this burst of old Cutch hitting and deal him.



Edit:. The game plan to get back to a good to great baseball team next year can work with Cutch being traded. 



Polanco and Marte in the OF and Frazier playing the other corner.   Harrison stays at 2b.  Hope that Kang returns next year.



Freese to bench and backup.  Hold onto Cole, you trade him, it's over.   



Move Cutch for a bonafide starting pitcher preferably.  Perhaps a couple of blocked minor league starters with talent.   Never going to get an ace but should be able to pull a very solid starter. I would trade Cervelli too.  He's still a .700+ OPS ML catcher who had an incredible 2015.   Should return something decent.



Frazier LF

Harrison 2b

Marte CF

Kang 3b

Bell 1

Polanco Rf

Mercer SS

Diaz c



Cole, Taillon, Nova, LEGIT starter, Kuhl or whoever.   



Bullpen is fine



There's the team.  If Kang doesn't come back, yes there's a lineup hole.  If he does, lineup is fine.  Especially if Bell continues to progress.



If you trade Cole, you might as well sell off a good portion and try for 3 years from now, imo.



Alternatively to the above, we could always act like a real MLB team and sign a good FA too. There's no law against having a 120 mil payroll in 2018

I don't think McCutchen is a terrible base runner. Why do you say/think that? Is it because he doesn't steal anymore?



McCutchen has always been one of the best going from first to third. He rounds the bases perfectly making shorter runs. He rarely (rarely, rarely) runs into outs on his own too.

I don't think he is a terrible defender either. While his range is not up to what you might want in a center fielder, he does not really botch many of the plays he gets to and he doesn't appear to get fooled into going the wrong direction a lot like Polanco does.