644944555243541417260 wrote: Wait, so now everyone wants to keep McCutchen?
I remember being laughed at when I said this last year. People were mad he wasn't traded to Washington not so long ago. People called Huntington greedy asking for so many players back or a top player ( Robles rumored).
Now, people don't want to trade him and will be mad if he is traded? And he is a bargain again? Wow!
It didn't maker sense to trade him in the off season when his value was never lower. And that was without knowing if his poor 2016 was an aberration and if he would rebound this year to have a great season for a new team after the Pirates got less for him by trading him as a player on the decline. The only sensible option was to wait and see how he was performing by midseason this year. Then they could decide if they still wanted to trade either a declining player for little return (same as it would have been in a winter deal) or if they again had a star player worth much more, or if the team was contending and they wanted to hang onto him.
Yah, that's why this grey area between contending and not is kinda harmful. If we're going to be bad I'd rather we be the worst. If we're going to be good than let's get on with it, haha.
Cutch Hitting .211
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
Cutch Hitting .211
262D25292C2D367375023B232A2D2D6C212D420 wrote: Wait, so now everyone wants to keep McCutchen?
I remember being laughed at when I said this last year. People were mad he wasn't traded to Washington not so long ago. People called Huntington greedy asking for so many players back or a top player ( Robles rumored).
Now, people don't want to trade him and will be mad if he is traded? And he is a bargain again? Wow!
So you think this is an incongruous position?
Well Dog I was one who wanted to see Cutch traded in the off season, and I now would like to see the Pirates keep him (not that I believe that they will). Let me try to explain why I've changed my mind.
Last year Cutch had a down year at the plate. Not just a down year but an historically unique fall from MVP calibre to mediocrity. We had threads here documenting the fact that no other player in baseball history had experienced such an offensive decline at his age. Not only was he not hitting but he had also reversed his walk and strikeout numbers in an alarming way. Additionally we were witness to a decline in his defense and running game. By observation Cutch's wheels had come off.
With the resources available to teams in MLB today involving film and facilities to work on the details of every player's game I concluded after a full season that Cutch's problems were related to a physical decline. It seemed unbelievable to me that Cutch could have a mechanical problem with his swing that wouldn't have been detected by team personnel given Cutch's importance, and all of the technical forms of analysis available.
Consequently I felt it would be best to part with Cutch sooner rather than later while he still had some perceived value. I really felt that he was in an irreversible decline. The start of the 2017 season certainly seemed to validate my belief. Cutch was continuing to decline and at an even more accelerated rate. It appeared to me that the Pirates had lost their opportunity to get anything of value for Cutch by not having dealt him in the off season. A missed opportunity.
Suddenly a month ago it is revealed that someone has detected a mechanical issue with his swing. Hurdle gives him two days off to work on the mechanics and then inserts him in the number 6 spot in the order. Instantly as if by magic the offensive MVP version of Cutch returns. Clearly Cutch was in need of the information about his swing in order to correct the problem. The fact that it took more than a full season for the Pirate's to come up with this solution suggests organizational incompetence to an embarrassing degree. How could a team's star player not have every coach's eyes upon him? How could the batting coach have watched countless hours of film of that swing and not seen the problem? How did this problem remain a mystery for so long?
Because I assumed that the Pirates would have done their due diligence in diagnosing a mechanical issue in Cutch's swing I concluded that he was in an irreversible decline. I now know that my assumption was incorrect. By the evidence of Cutch's performance over the past month I now believe he will regain that MVP level. He will be that player again and that he should be retained as the face of the franchise and the foundation around which the lineup should be constructed.
I remember being laughed at when I said this last year. People were mad he wasn't traded to Washington not so long ago. People called Huntington greedy asking for so many players back or a top player ( Robles rumored).
Now, people don't want to trade him and will be mad if he is traded? And he is a bargain again? Wow!
So you think this is an incongruous position?
Well Dog I was one who wanted to see Cutch traded in the off season, and I now would like to see the Pirates keep him (not that I believe that they will). Let me try to explain why I've changed my mind.
Last year Cutch had a down year at the plate. Not just a down year but an historically unique fall from MVP calibre to mediocrity. We had threads here documenting the fact that no other player in baseball history had experienced such an offensive decline at his age. Not only was he not hitting but he had also reversed his walk and strikeout numbers in an alarming way. Additionally we were witness to a decline in his defense and running game. By observation Cutch's wheels had come off.
With the resources available to teams in MLB today involving film and facilities to work on the details of every player's game I concluded after a full season that Cutch's problems were related to a physical decline. It seemed unbelievable to me that Cutch could have a mechanical problem with his swing that wouldn't have been detected by team personnel given Cutch's importance, and all of the technical forms of analysis available.
Consequently I felt it would be best to part with Cutch sooner rather than later while he still had some perceived value. I really felt that he was in an irreversible decline. The start of the 2017 season certainly seemed to validate my belief. Cutch was continuing to decline and at an even more accelerated rate. It appeared to me that the Pirates had lost their opportunity to get anything of value for Cutch by not having dealt him in the off season. A missed opportunity.
Suddenly a month ago it is revealed that someone has detected a mechanical issue with his swing. Hurdle gives him two days off to work on the mechanics and then inserts him in the number 6 spot in the order. Instantly as if by magic the offensive MVP version of Cutch returns. Clearly Cutch was in need of the information about his swing in order to correct the problem. The fact that it took more than a full season for the Pirate's to come up with this solution suggests organizational incompetence to an embarrassing degree. How could a team's star player not have every coach's eyes upon him? How could the batting coach have watched countless hours of film of that swing and not seen the problem? How did this problem remain a mystery for so long?
Because I assumed that the Pirates would have done their due diligence in diagnosing a mechanical issue in Cutch's swing I concluded that he was in an irreversible decline. I now know that my assumption was incorrect. By the evidence of Cutch's performance over the past month I now believe he will regain that MVP level. He will be that player again and that he should be retained as the face of the franchise and the foundation around which the lineup should be constructed.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3631
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Cutch Hitting .211
D'oh. Wrong thread.
Cutch Hitting .211
1C382C24214D0 wrote: Wait, so now everyone wants to keep McCutchen?
I remember being laughed at when I said this last year. People were mad he wasn't traded to Washington not so long ago. People called Huntington greedy asking for so many players back or a top player ( Robles rumored).
Now, people don't want to trade him and will be mad if he is traded? And he is a bargain again? Wow!
So you think this is an incongruous position?
Well Dog I was one who wanted to see Cutch traded in the off season, and I now would like to see the Pirates keep him (not that I believe that they will). Let me try to explain why I've changed my mind.
Last year Cutch had a down year at the plate. Not just a down year but an historically unique fall from MVP calibre to mediocrity. We had threads here documenting the fact that no other player in baseball history had experienced such an offensive decline at his age. Not only was he not hitting but he had also reversed his walk and strikeout numbers in an alarming way. Additionally we were witness to a decline in his defense and running game. By observation Cutch's wheels had come off.
With the resources available to teams in MLB today involving film and facilities to work on the details of every player's game I concluded after a full season that Cutch's problems were related to a physical decline. It seemed unbelievable to me that Cutch could have a mechanical problem with his swing that wouldn't have been detected by team personnel given Cutch's importance, and all of the technical forms of analysis available.
Consequently I felt it would be best to part with Cutch sooner rather than later while he still had some perceived value. I really felt that he was in an irreversible decline. The start of the 2017 season certainly seemed to validate my belief. Cutch was continuing to decline and at an even more accelerated rate. It appeared to me that the Pirates had lost their opportunity to get anything of value for Cutch by not having dealt him in the off season. A missed opportunity.
Suddenly a month ago it is revealed that someone has detected a mechanical issue with his swing. Hurdle gives him two days off to work on the mechanics and then inserts him in the number 6 spot in the order. Instantly as if by magic the offensive MVP version of Cutch returns. Clearly Cutch was in need of the information about his swing in order to correct the problem. The fact that it took more than a full season for the Pirate's to come up with this solution suggests organizational incompetence to an embarrassing degree. How could a team's star player not have every coach's eyes upon him? How could the batting coach have watched countless hours of film of that swing and not seen the problem? How did this problem remain a mystery for so long?
Because I assumed that the Pirates would have done their due diligence in diagnosing a mechanical issue in Cutch's swing I concluded that he was in an irreversible decline. I now know that my assumption was incorrect. By the evidence of Cutch's performance over the past month I now believe he will regain that MVP level. He will be that player again and that he should be retained as the face of the franchise and the foundation around which the lineup should be constructed.
Where I disagree with you is that the metrics showed that he wasn't nearly as bad to begin this season as the results were showing. I detailed in earlier posts that his exit velocities were not that far off his career years. Also his Babip was at or near .200 which is unheard of. While I wasn't sure we would see this level of play again I really thought we would at least have a well above average player. Now I can see the old Cutch (MVP caliber) has returned. If I had my choice I would keep Cutch and even try to extend him. I would send Polanco packing if I could find someone willing to take him.
I remember being laughed at when I said this last year. People were mad he wasn't traded to Washington not so long ago. People called Huntington greedy asking for so many players back or a top player ( Robles rumored).
Now, people don't want to trade him and will be mad if he is traded? And he is a bargain again? Wow!
So you think this is an incongruous position?
Well Dog I was one who wanted to see Cutch traded in the off season, and I now would like to see the Pirates keep him (not that I believe that they will). Let me try to explain why I've changed my mind.
Last year Cutch had a down year at the plate. Not just a down year but an historically unique fall from MVP calibre to mediocrity. We had threads here documenting the fact that no other player in baseball history had experienced such an offensive decline at his age. Not only was he not hitting but he had also reversed his walk and strikeout numbers in an alarming way. Additionally we were witness to a decline in his defense and running game. By observation Cutch's wheels had come off.
With the resources available to teams in MLB today involving film and facilities to work on the details of every player's game I concluded after a full season that Cutch's problems were related to a physical decline. It seemed unbelievable to me that Cutch could have a mechanical problem with his swing that wouldn't have been detected by team personnel given Cutch's importance, and all of the technical forms of analysis available.
Consequently I felt it would be best to part with Cutch sooner rather than later while he still had some perceived value. I really felt that he was in an irreversible decline. The start of the 2017 season certainly seemed to validate my belief. Cutch was continuing to decline and at an even more accelerated rate. It appeared to me that the Pirates had lost their opportunity to get anything of value for Cutch by not having dealt him in the off season. A missed opportunity.
Suddenly a month ago it is revealed that someone has detected a mechanical issue with his swing. Hurdle gives him two days off to work on the mechanics and then inserts him in the number 6 spot in the order. Instantly as if by magic the offensive MVP version of Cutch returns. Clearly Cutch was in need of the information about his swing in order to correct the problem. The fact that it took more than a full season for the Pirate's to come up with this solution suggests organizational incompetence to an embarrassing degree. How could a team's star player not have every coach's eyes upon him? How could the batting coach have watched countless hours of film of that swing and not seen the problem? How did this problem remain a mystery for so long?
Because I assumed that the Pirates would have done their due diligence in diagnosing a mechanical issue in Cutch's swing I concluded that he was in an irreversible decline. I now know that my assumption was incorrect. By the evidence of Cutch's performance over the past month I now believe he will regain that MVP level. He will be that player again and that he should be retained as the face of the franchise and the foundation around which the lineup should be constructed.
Where I disagree with you is that the metrics showed that he wasn't nearly as bad to begin this season as the results were showing. I detailed in earlier posts that his exit velocities were not that far off his career years. Also his Babip was at or near .200 which is unheard of. While I wasn't sure we would see this level of play again I really thought we would at least have a well above average player. Now I can see the old Cutch (MVP caliber) has returned. If I had my choice I would keep Cutch and even try to extend him. I would send Polanco packing if I could find someone willing to take him.
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johnfluharty
Cutch Hitting .211
I agree with keeping cutch if he can he had cheaply enough, but it's way too early to give up on Polanco.
Cutch Hitting .211
090C0B0D050F160B0211171A630 wrote: I agree with keeping cutch if he can he had cheaply enough, but it's way too early to give up on Polanco.
I agree that it's too early to give up on Polanco.
But I've greatly adjusted my expectations for him.
I see his ceiling being a slightly above average hitter, who is among the worst defensive OFers to ever get regular playing time.
I view him as more of a complimentary piece and not a major part of the core going forward. If he stinks again in 2018, then we need a change. But for now, gotta roll with him.
I agree that it's too early to give up on Polanco.
But I've greatly adjusted my expectations for him.
I see his ceiling being a slightly above average hitter, who is among the worst defensive OFers to ever get regular playing time.
I view him as more of a complimentary piece and not a major part of the core going forward. If he stinks again in 2018, then we need a change. But for now, gotta roll with him.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Cutch Hitting .211
If Polanco bettered his 2016 season, he would be a fixture on any team. A few more HRs, higher average, and got that OPS over .800 he would be fine. Not a super star, but close to being an All Star.
I hope injuries are holding Polanco back right now. His hamstrings have to still be bothering him. He isn't moving very well and it is hurting his swing too.
But if McCutchen is signed long term, Polanco is the odd man out. Marte brings so much to the table.
I hope injuries are holding Polanco back right now. His hamstrings have to still be bothering him. He isn't moving very well and it is hurting his swing too.
But if McCutchen is signed long term, Polanco is the odd man out. Marte brings so much to the table.
Cutch Hitting .211
5358505C5958430600774E565F5858195458370 wrote: If Polanco bettered his 2016 season, he would be a fixture on any team. A few more HRs, higher average, and got that OPS over .800 he would be fine. Not a super star, but close to being an All Star.
I hope injuries are holding Polanco back right now. His hamstrings have to still be bothering him. He isn't moving very well and it is hurting his swing too.
But if McCutchen is signed long term, Polanco is the odd man out. Marte brings so much to the table.
That's what I'm saying I would extend Cutch and trade Polanco and his contract. It is a team friendly deal for sure, and that may be the only reason to get a decent return. When Marte returns I would put Frazier/Osuna in RF until Meadows is ready.
I hope injuries are holding Polanco back right now. His hamstrings have to still be bothering him. He isn't moving very well and it is hurting his swing too.
But if McCutchen is signed long term, Polanco is the odd man out. Marte brings so much to the table.
That's what I'm saying I would extend Cutch and trade Polanco and his contract. It is a team friendly deal for sure, and that may be the only reason to get a decent return. When Marte returns I would put Frazier/Osuna in RF until Meadows is ready.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3631
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Cutch Hitting .211
28232B272223387D7B0C352D242323622F234C0 wrote: If Polanco bettered his 2016 season, he would be a fixture on any team. A few more HRs, higher average, and got that OPS over .800 he would be fine. Not a super star, but close to being an All Star.
I hope injuries are holding Polanco back right now. His hamstrings have to still be bothering him. He isn't moving very well and it is hurting his swing too.
But if McCutchen is signed long term, Polanco is the odd man out. Marte brings so much to the table.
Wouldn't you be at least curious about what Marte would fetch? That's a long way down the road one way or the other but I think it'd be intriguing
I hope injuries are holding Polanco back right now. His hamstrings have to still be bothering him. He isn't moving very well and it is hurting his swing too.
But if McCutchen is signed long term, Polanco is the odd man out. Marte brings so much to the table.
Wouldn't you be at least curious about what Marte would fetch? That's a long way down the road one way or the other but I think it'd be intriguing
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johnfluharty
Cutch Hitting .211
4B40484441405B1E186F564E474040014C402F0 wrote: If Polanco bettered his 2016 season, he would be a fixture on any team. A few more HRs, higher average, and got that OPS over .800 he would be fine. Not a super star, but close to being an All Star.
I hope injuries are holding Polanco back right now. His hamstrings have to still be bothering him. He isn't moving very well and it is hurting his swing too.
But if McCutchen is signed long term, Polanco is the odd man out. Marte brings so much to the table.
I want to see what Starling does post-ped before making this judgment.
I hope injuries are holding Polanco back right now. His hamstrings have to still be bothering him. He isn't moving very well and it is hurting his swing too.
But if McCutchen is signed long term, Polanco is the odd man out. Marte brings so much to the table.
I want to see what Starling does post-ped before making this judgment.