OnlyBucs

7874752E272E262B2C33291E0 wrote: Fj,



What's so diff?



Take the stitching away, and we've seen it before. 



McCutchen stayed ONLY because he gave up market value.  Several others have, too.  Without that, he would have been gone.  It's gone on since Barry Bonds or maybe earlier.



These guys know how the Pirates operate.  Their reps and union leaders know.  We all know.



And, we know how players operate.



Enjoy them while they're here. What else can we do?



I'm not losing sleep over Reynolds.  I hope that he stays, but we've watched better guys go.  I guess that I've become immune to this.
I know how they operate, but maybe this time is different. If they decide not to offer a long term agreement, and they want to retain him take him to arbitration the next two years, and then make the qualifying offer. The two years of arbitration will probably cost in the neighborhood of 30 million dollars. I guess I get tired of losing our better players. I know the small market crap, but the Pirates could increase their payroll like other small market teams.


It's always "Time Time It's Different." It was different for McCutchen and Hayes. I wouldn't be counting on it being different with Reynolds.



With McCutchen and Hayes, nothing much was said publicly. That's a key difference- positive.



I'll assume that in those two cases, they and the team weren't $50 million apart, and weren't two years apart in their expectations.



Reynolds wants signed though age 36. That's what "old man" Andrew is today. I can't see the Pirates agreeing to that at all, just because it's so unlike them. I can't blame a player for seeking that kind of security these days. Most guys who are able, do.



Add that Reynolds is a Huntington man, and I wonder how tight that bond really is.



Remember- we lost 100 games two years in a row with the guy. We won't lose many more if we set him free at the end of July. And, we know that Ben likes his suspects.



This time, the differences are very different. $50 million and two years for a guy who hasn't led the league in any major offensive category. I'm not sure they would close a $50 million gap if he wore the triple crown (exaggeration for effect.)



It would honestly shock me if it was different this time. We'll find out soon enough.

I am probably more optimistic than most, but seeing some photos from Bradenton with Reynolds, Nutting, and Travis Williams I just think they may reopen discussions regarding an extension of Reynolds. It could end up with a positive outcome, or might end up that the sides cannot find a middle ground. In my opinion, possibly the Pirates should increase the money, and Reynolds side should reduce their term of years. Something like $ 113 million for 7 years, or 100 million for 6 years.

646869323B323A37302F35020 wrote: I am probably more optimistic than most, but seeing some photos from Bradenton with Reynolds, Nutting, and Travis Williams I just think they may reopen discussions regarding an extension of Reynolds. It could end up with a positive outcome, or might end up that the sides cannot find a middle ground. In my opinion, possibly the Pirates should increase the money, and Reynolds side should reduce their term of years. Something like $ 113 million for 7 years, or 100 million for 6 years.


I’d like to be optimistic, too but, considering Nutting is part of this equation, I find it best to be realistic. I can’t see him granting a contract of $100 million or more, regardless of the years. It’s probably a line he won’t cross. If he does, it’ll be the story of this season, regardless of what the team or any one player accomplishes.

How many photos of McCutchen, Coonelly, and BOB did we see a few years ago until there were no more Andrews in them?



Everybody's best friends until it's time to pay up.

4E7B6C6C675E6C6C67606C090 wrote: How many photos of McCutchen, Coonelly, and BOB did we see a few years ago until there were no more Andrews in them?



Everybody's best friends until it's time to pay up.
That is true, but in my opinion, and I have no knowledge, I believe that Frank Coonelly when he was here ran the organization. I think he had say on trades that Huntington either made or proposed. In other words I think he held too much power. I think the current organization chart has Travis Williams as the person who oversees the marketing etc, and Ben Cherington oversees the ops portion of the organization. Both report to Nutting, but neither is involved with the others portion of the team. In my opinion if BC feels Reynolds,or whomever is a good baseball move, Williams will give his opinion regarding the money, but he won’t inform BC that the deal cannot be made. That is what I think that has changed when the current Front Office was hired in 2019.

707C7D262F262E23243B21160 wrote: How many photos of McCutchen, Coonelly, and BOB did we see a few years ago until there were no more Andrews in them?



Everybody's best friends until it's time to pay up.
That is true, but in my opinion, and I have no knowledge, I believe that Frank Coonelly when he was here ran the organization. I think he had say on trades that Huntington either made or proposed. In other words I think he held too much power. I think the current organization chart has Travis Williams as the person who oversees the marketing etc, and Ben Cherington oversees the ops portion of the organization. Both report to Nutting, but neither is involved with the others portion of the team. In my opinion if BC feels  Reynolds,or whomever is a good baseball move, Williams will give his opinion regarding the money, but he won’t inform BC that the deal cannot be made. That is what I think that has changed when the current Front Office was hired in 2019.


When it comes to big contracts, Nutting will have the final say, as is his right as owner. Because it’s his money, sharing more of it with players isn’t in his business plan.

BOB has a pattern of trying to look like one of the fellas.



He's engaged and all that.  We get it.



Being An Owner 101

6A66673C353C34393E213B0C0 wrote: How many photos of McCutchen, Coonelly, and BOB did we see a few years ago until there were no more Andrews in them?



Everybody's best friends until it's time to pay up.
That is true, but in my opinion, and I have no knowledge, I believe that Frank Coonelly when he was here ran the organization. I think he had say on trades that Huntington either made or proposed. In other words I think he held too much power. I think the current organization chart has Travis Williams as the person who oversees the marketing etc, and Ben Cherington oversees the ops portion of the organization. Both report to Nutting, but neither is involved with the others portion of the team. In my opinion if BC feels  Reynolds,or whomever is a good baseball move, Williams will give his opinion regarding the money, but he won’t inform BC that the deal cannot be made. That is what I think that has changed when the current Front Office was hired in 2019.
I share your opinion of Coonelly's role with the team. Sure, in the end, it was all on Neal, but he was the fall back (guy?) to pin everything on when it ultimately went to hell in a handbasket anyway.

I'll take it one step further - when Nutting took controlling interest and ask for guidance, Frank was offered as an MLB insider to help Nutting along.



I believe that Coonelly was on the fast track to replace Selig, and this would give him some experience at the club level to help prepare him for the top job. Frank was a labor lawyer, and was instrumental in trying to get the slot bonus's implemented. It was part of what he worked on in the MLB office. What better way to get the support of the big spenders than tick them off when he outwitted them on the Josh Bell signing? Once the Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs and Dodgers turned away from him, the Bucs swooped in with their bonus. End of the amateur draft as we knew it, right??



Suddenly, Selig decided to hang around for a few more years and Frank looked around and said to himself, "he stays and I get stuck in this F&^*#@!$ place?" and got himself good and drunk with that thought and then got his DUI.



Yeah, a lot of reach there, but that's how much I think Coonelly was involved and how much he hated Pittsburgh. I neither trusted his hiring, or him. He badmouthed small business owners in the area, overrode Neal on players, and in the end, turned on Nutting. No proof, just my Pirates conspiracy theory!

Some writers said the opposite; that Selig ditched Coonelly on the Pirates because he had Manfred in line to succeed him.



Given what we experienced with Coonelly in Pittsburgh, I see nothing that would cause me to think that it wasn't true.

Just offer 5/$100m that will get it done .You don`t want to pay him much longer than that .I believe he is already 28.