OnlyBucs

5C796F747C735F6F726A731D0 wrote: I thought Pomeranz would be a good target for the Pirates.  I am sure many teams wanted him. 



This trade might get the ball rolling.  I can see Niese being traded, but not Liriano.


A team has showed interest in a player, you do not see him being moved, but a player that no one would want, you see moved?


Yea, I actually think the chances of Niese getting traded are higher than Liriano.  Are you thinking it is the reverse?  I don't think the Pirates will get anything of substance for Niese if they trade him, but I can't imagine they trade Liriano, thus Niese is a higher probability in my mind.




They will have to give away Niese and pay for most of his salary. Basically releasing him.



A team has actually shown interest in Liriano. No one would want Niese.



Why would they not trade Liriano?

I guess I just don't think that they will because I think if they are going to make any type of run this year it is predicated on Liriano turning it around and leading the charge. Plus, I think he would be an important piece of the puzzle next year. Just my two cents though. And I do agree that I think Niese will basically be a salary dump to clear the roster spot.

5C51506771717D74737C120 wrote: If Espinoza is the price of a controllable arm then the Pirates have no business getting in that market.  Espinoza is a top 20 prospect in all of baseball and possibly an ace in the making. 



What a great series of transactions for the Padres who picked up Pomeranz in the off-season for Yonder Alonso and a bullpen arm.  If we would have traded Walker for Pomeranz in the off-season I'm thinking most in baseball would have thought we got ripped off and now he nets a top prospect.  Just shows how quickly things can change. 



I still wish we would have flipped Walker for a couple of prospects.  This morning on the radio I heard NH basically admit that that was the better move in hindsight.


Most thought we got ripped off with Niese, so who cares?



NH admitted not long after adding Niese that he was not the pitcher they wanted and hoped he would surprise him.



Espinosa is 18 in A ball, pitching in the bullpen.  He is a great young arm, but very far away.  Plus the Pirates do not have to trade for a young controllable arm.  They need rotation help badly.  Trade for the next Burnett or Happ.




Actually Espinoza hasn't pitched out of the bullpen at all this year.  Only 17 starts.  I don't think the Pirates have to trade for a controllable arm.  All I said was that if that is the price of the controllable arms then the Pirates should stay away, hence instead focus on rentals.



Not sure what your point is regarding Pomeranz.  My point is that most pundits would not have put Pomeranz in a starting rotation coming into the year and the Padres were able to turn him around and turn him into a great trade asset. Good for them.  I don't like Niese and didn't like the pickup then either.  I think we would agree on that.


Not sure what I was looking at there, you are right, he has started all year in A ball.



I still do not agree that the price of controllable arms is set. Pomeranz has the pedigree of at top 5 pick that seemed to figure it out, with 3 cheap years left, left handed power pitcher, and has a legit looking season.  It would be like trading Cole.  There are many controllable pitchers that can be added.



All I said about Pomeranz is that it was a miss by the Pirates not to be smart enough to trade for him.




Gotcha. Yes, it would have been a nice get for sure at his cheap price with team control. Too bad!

737E7F485E5E525B5C533D0 wrote:

They will have to give away Niese and pay for most of his salary.  Basically releasing him.


The Bucs have already paid more than half of his 9 mil salary. He has a track record prior to this season as a mediocre LHP. The roughly 4 mil he is still owed is chump change for most teams. I don't think a team would demand the Pirates pay more of his salary. Especially since a team would not have to give up much to get him.

4F42437462626E67606F010 wrote: I thought Pomeranz would be a good target for the Pirates.  I am sure many teams wanted him. 



This trade might get the ball rolling.  I can see Niese being traded, but not Liriano.


A team has showed interest in a player, you do not see him being moved, but a player that no one would want, you see moved?


Yea, I actually think the chances of Niese getting traded are higher than Liriano.  Are you thinking it is the reverse?  I don't think the Pirates will get anything of substance for Niese if they trade him, but I can't imagine they trade Liriano, thus Niese is a higher probability in my mind.




They will have to give away Niese and pay for most of his salary.  Basically releasing him.



A team has actually shown interest in Liriano.  No one would want Niese. 



Why would they not trade Liriano?




Because they want to keep Liriano. He has a higher upside. I understand other teams would want Liriano over Niese, but so do the Pirates.



So, Yes, I can see Niese being traded (salary dump, what ever you want to call it) over Liriano.

I wonder if this is what the conversation looked like last year on www.onlymariners.com before they traded Happ.

577A77666170672724150 wrote:

They will have to give away Niese and pay for most of his salary.  Basically releasing him.


The Bucs have already paid more than half of his 9 mil salary. He has a track record prior to this season as a mediocre LHP. The roughly 4 mil he is still owed is chump change for most teams. I don't think a team would demand the Pirates pay more of his salary. Especially since a team would not have to give up much to get him.




A good team is not going to trade for him at all, and a bad team can just bring up a cheap player from the minors. No reason to add salary. If there was a team that would take on his salary for nothing he would be gone already.

757E767A7F7E652026516870797E7E3F727E110 wrote: I thought Pomeranz would be a good target for the Pirates.  I am sure many teams wanted him. 



This trade might get the ball rolling.  I can see Niese being traded, but not Liriano.


A team has showed interest in a player, you do not see him being moved, but a player that no one would want, you see moved?


Yea, I actually think the chances of Niese getting traded are higher than Liriano.  Are you thinking it is the reverse?  I don't think the Pirates will get anything of substance for Niese if they trade him, but I can't imagine they trade Liriano, thus Niese is a higher probability in my mind.




They will have to give away Niese and pay for most of his salary.  Basically releasing him.



A team has actually shown interest in Liriano.  No one would want Niese. 



Why would they not trade Liriano?




Because they want to keep Liriano.  He has a higher upside.  I understand other teams would want Liriano over Niese, but so do the Pirates.



So, Yes, I can see Niese being traded (salary dump, what ever you want to call it) over Liriano.




That would also be a reason why teams would actually be interested in trading for Liriano.



Neise getting released is just as likely as being traded.



Everyone always seems to want to trade the turds on the team, but forget that someone actually has to want them.

I could see some team taking a flyer but not for any return. He's had decent years in the past. Just not decent enough that I'm interested in putting the effort into it. Even if he makes a full comeback, it's a comeback to mediocre pitcher.

[quote author=525F5E697F7F737A7D721C0



That would also be a reason why teams would actually be interested in trading for Liriano.



Neise getting released is just as likely as being traded.



Everyone always seems to want to trade the turds on the team, but forget that someone actually has to want them.


__________________________________________________



I understand.  But that doesn't mean it will happen. 



In my opinion, I think the Pirates keep Liriano and trade Niese.  Just my opinion, that's all.  I don't think the return for Niese will be anything special, but I can still see this happening.