2017 Bucs Pitching Roster
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skinnyhorse
- Posts: 926
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2017 Bucs Pitching Roster
I am very concerned about signing Nova as he was awful with the Yankee's. It appears he only started really putting out effort after he signed with the Pirates and saw a big contract if he improved like Happ did last year. Any long term contract I fear will be a disaster with him without strong performance measures to get the money. If he won't do that let him walk.
2017 Bucs Pitching Roster
61797B7C7C6B7A7D606177120 wrote: I am very concerned about signing Nova as he was awful with the Yankee's. It appears he only started really putting out effort after he signed with the Pirates and saw a big contract if he improved like Happ did last year. Any long term contract I fear will be a disaster with him without strong performance measures to get the money. If he won't do that let him walk.
I think your concerns are certainly legitimate, but after reading what Nova said concerning Searage helping him to make some needed adjustments I feel better about him going forward as a decent pitcher. When you take into consideration the mediocre (at best) group of upcoming starter free agents I think Nova looks like a better bet than any of the others.
Now if he's the only addition to the starting staff other than NH's usual reclamation/dumpster dives then I say don't even bother signing him. He's not going to be a top of the rotation starter, and that is what the Pirates need more than anything else to challenge for a division title or beyond. As a solid #3 or #4 in our rotation he's a good add, but we might as well not have Nova blocking one of the kids who we have waiting in the wings if we don't add that #2 starter via trade.
I think your concerns are certainly legitimate, but after reading what Nova said concerning Searage helping him to make some needed adjustments I feel better about him going forward as a decent pitcher. When you take into consideration the mediocre (at best) group of upcoming starter free agents I think Nova looks like a better bet than any of the others.
Now if he's the only addition to the starting staff other than NH's usual reclamation/dumpster dives then I say don't even bother signing him. He's not going to be a top of the rotation starter, and that is what the Pirates need more than anything else to challenge for a division title or beyond. As a solid #3 or #4 in our rotation he's a good add, but we might as well not have Nova blocking one of the kids who we have waiting in the wings if we don't add that #2 starter via trade.
2017 Bucs Pitching Roster
I pretty much agree with skinnyhorse's thoughts on Nova. He may well be a new and improved version of himself given Searage's help, but a four-year deal at a high number seems a pretty big gamble for the team to take. Of course his demand is just that - an opening demand in what they think will be an extended negotiation, but the discussion is starting in a high-priced neighborhood.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
2017 Bucs Pitching Roster
But why? Everyone wanted to give that to an older, lesser Happ?
2017 Bucs Pitching Roster
5E555D5154554E0B0D7A435B5255551459553A0 wrote: But why? Everyone wanted to give that to an older, lesser Happ?
From my perspective Happ was a risk. As you mention he was older than Nova is now, and he had no greater success in his history. I don't think the situation is a whole lot different except that Nova apparently wants a 5 year deal. As I said in a previous post I wouldn't give him more than 3 guaranteed years (same as Happ got).
From my perspective Happ was a risk. As you mention he was older than Nova is now, and he had no greater success in his history. I don't think the situation is a whole lot different except that Nova apparently wants a 5 year deal. As I said in a previous post I wouldn't give him more than 3 guaranteed years (same as Happ got).
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
2017 Bucs Pitching Roster
Front load it.
Nova still gets paid. Pirates probably get his best years. Easier to trade or dump down the road if not needed because of the young guys.
Nova still gets paid. Pirates probably get his best years. Easier to trade or dump down the road if not needed because of the young guys.
2017 Bucs Pitching Roster
Have there been any updates on Cole's arm? I'm really concerned that he may not be available early or possibly at all next year (as in, TJ).
Hutchinson almost certainly will be in the rotation at the beginning of the year. They see something they like about him - if it was just a salary dump of Liriano, they would have asked for a return similar to what we got for Morton (Whitehead?).
Lastly, the BIG question, what young, controllable, GOOD starting pitcher could we get if we traded Cutch? I was thinking Teahran (sp?) but not sure how many years he has left, 1 or 2? Atlanta would love the big name as they go into their new ballpark.
Hutchinson almost certainly will be in the rotation at the beginning of the year. They see something they like about him - if it was just a salary dump of Liriano, they would have asked for a return similar to what we got for Morton (Whitehead?).
Lastly, the BIG question, what young, controllable, GOOD starting pitcher could we get if we traded Cutch? I was thinking Teahran (sp?) but not sure how many years he has left, 1 or 2? Atlanta would love the big name as they go into their new ballpark.
2017 Bucs Pitching Roster
5D5758455745505758360 wrote: Have there been any updates on Cole's arm? I'm really concerned that he may not be available early or possibly at all next year (as in, TJ).
Hutchinson almost certainly will be in the rotation at the beginning of the year. They see something they like about him - if it was just a salary dump of Liriano, they would have asked for a return similar to what we got for Morton (Whitehead?).
Lastly, the BIG question, what young, controllable, GOOD starting pitcher could we get if we traded Cutch? I was thinking Teahran (sp?) but not sure how many years he has left, 1 or 2? Atlanta would love the big name as they go into their new ballpark.
Jose Quintana (27Yrs) - signed thru 2020: $7M,$8.85M,$10.5M,$11.5M last two years are team options
Carlos Carrasco (29Yrs)- signed thru 2020: $6.5M,$8M,$9M,$9.5M last two years are team options
Chris Archer (27Yrs)- signed thru 2021: $4.92M,$6.42M,$7.67M,$9M,$11M last two years are team options
Julio Teheran (26Yrs)- signed thru 2020: $6.3M,$8M,$11M,$12M last year is team option
IMO Teheran would be the most difficult to acquire because of his status within his own team's starting rotation. No other pitcher on the Braves is close to him. For the Braves to trade him it would mean that they would be dealing from a position of need not a position of strength in their organization. The case can be made for the others listed that their teams have more of an abundance of quality pitching.
No guarantees that Cutch would bring any of the above by his lonesome in a trade. Pirates would probably have to sweeten the pot with a top prospect. Polanco or Marte might get it done by themselves because of salary and years of control advantages.
Hutchinson almost certainly will be in the rotation at the beginning of the year. They see something they like about him - if it was just a salary dump of Liriano, they would have asked for a return similar to what we got for Morton (Whitehead?).
Lastly, the BIG question, what young, controllable, GOOD starting pitcher could we get if we traded Cutch? I was thinking Teahran (sp?) but not sure how many years he has left, 1 or 2? Atlanta would love the big name as they go into their new ballpark.
Jose Quintana (27Yrs) - signed thru 2020: $7M,$8.85M,$10.5M,$11.5M last two years are team options
Carlos Carrasco (29Yrs)- signed thru 2020: $6.5M,$8M,$9M,$9.5M last two years are team options
Chris Archer (27Yrs)- signed thru 2021: $4.92M,$6.42M,$7.67M,$9M,$11M last two years are team options
Julio Teheran (26Yrs)- signed thru 2020: $6.3M,$8M,$11M,$12M last year is team option
IMO Teheran would be the most difficult to acquire because of his status within his own team's starting rotation. No other pitcher on the Braves is close to him. For the Braves to trade him it would mean that they would be dealing from a position of need not a position of strength in their organization. The case can be made for the others listed that their teams have more of an abundance of quality pitching.
No guarantees that Cutch would bring any of the above by his lonesome in a trade. Pirates would probably have to sweeten the pot with a top prospect. Polanco or Marte might get it done by themselves because of salary and years of control advantages.
2017 Bucs Pitching Roster
Quail, thanks for the response. Didn't realize Teheran had that many years of control.
My thinking with the Braves is that they have a LOT of needs. And they're moving into a new ballpark. We have an excess of MLB-quality (but not superstar) players.
Would they be interested in Cutch (I didn't realize until today that his 2nd half #'s are good, and since his benching in August are back to "normal" for him - >.900 OPS); one of Harrison/Hanson/Frazier; and one of our SP not named Cole/Taillon/Kuhl/Glasnow (for example, Brault, Hutchinson, Williams, Duncan, Kingham - although personally, I might be more inclined to part with Glasnow than Kingham). Throw in Jaso for good measure.
Gives them 2 pieces to their lineup, a good bench bat and a young SP.
We get Teheran and 2 decent A-AA prospects (say, 10-20 range).
I really don't know about the other teams' needs, but I seriously doubt the Rays would take on Cutch's salary under any circumstance - just like we wouldn't bring on that kind of salary in a trade.
My thinking with the Braves is that they have a LOT of needs. And they're moving into a new ballpark. We have an excess of MLB-quality (but not superstar) players.
Would they be interested in Cutch (I didn't realize until today that his 2nd half #'s are good, and since his benching in August are back to "normal" for him - >.900 OPS); one of Harrison/Hanson/Frazier; and one of our SP not named Cole/Taillon/Kuhl/Glasnow (for example, Brault, Hutchinson, Williams, Duncan, Kingham - although personally, I might be more inclined to part with Glasnow than Kingham). Throw in Jaso for good measure.
Gives them 2 pieces to their lineup, a good bench bat and a young SP.
We get Teheran and 2 decent A-AA prospects (say, 10-20 range).
I really don't know about the other teams' needs, but I seriously doubt the Rays would take on Cutch's salary under any circumstance - just like we wouldn't bring on that kind of salary in a trade.
2017 Bucs Pitching Roster
I agree with you regarding the Braves having a lot of needs. The one thing they do have however is a 'name' outfielder in Matt Kemp who has performed well since they acquired him earlier this year. A package including Cutch as you suggest might entice them to part with Teheran, but their front office declared earlier in the season that they wanted Teheran to be their opening day starter in their new stadium in 2017. But you never know...
As for Archer, the Rays, as you suggest, would have little or no interest in Cutch, but I'm sure they'd consider a deal involving Marte or Polanco.
IMO the best bet for an acquisition is Carrasco. The Indians are on the rise and currently have 35 year old Rajai Davis playing center field for them. The Indians have several good young pitchers so that trading Carrasco for Cutch might be something they could view as trading from strength for a need.
I'd be very happy if the Pirates were able to acquire any of those four.
As for Archer, the Rays, as you suggest, would have little or no interest in Cutch, but I'm sure they'd consider a deal involving Marte or Polanco.
IMO the best bet for an acquisition is Carrasco. The Indians are on the rise and currently have 35 year old Rajai Davis playing center field for them. The Indians have several good young pitchers so that trading Carrasco for Cutch might be something they could view as trading from strength for a need.
I'd be very happy if the Pirates were able to acquire any of those four.