Not sure which thread this goes in, but another good article from outside of Pittsburgh.
http://www.sbnation.com/2016/12/2/13818 ... -nationals
Trading McCutchen would be a betrayal by the Pirates . . .
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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rucker59@gmail.com
Trading McCutchen would be a betrayal by the Pirates . . .
That is an absolute killer article. Thanks for posting Possum. If Nutting is unmoved by this piece I think we can agree that his name is really Ebeneezer Scrooge.
It would be one thing if moving Cutch was a regrettable but necessary baseball move, but it's not. It is another salary dump that will have a net negative impact on the MLB team for several years (or at least as of the rumors we've heard so far). I have no problem with adding to the prospect list, but unless you're accumulating for the purpose of winning a pennant then there is no purpose in accumulating! Trading Cutch simply proves that winning now takes a distant backseat to keep the pipeline full of cheap players.
I propose (again) a trade that will help the Pirates win a World Series AND prove that Nutting deserves to own an MLB team:
Trade Starling Marte straight up for Chris Sale. Period. Take on the additional $15M in payroll for the next three years (Sale is a bargain like Cutch!!). Make this window real. Move Josh Bell to OF, Jaso and Freeze handle 1st. Then sign Nova for $12M x 3 (if that's what it takes). Pirates want to contend for the WS? Push payroll to $120M/$125M by adding these 2 pitchers and let Cutch be the face of this team, the team he built, as he deserves to be, and as Pittsburgh deserves for the city.
If the Pirate made that type of commitment, watch Cutch and the rest of the team respond and PNC push to new record attendance.
Shezzz I hate the way this organization screws around - GO OUT AND FINSH THIS TEAM!
Anything else means Nutting is trying to field a team that is JJJUUUSSSTTT competitive enough to keep fans in the seats.
It would be one thing if moving Cutch was a regrettable but necessary baseball move, but it's not. It is another salary dump that will have a net negative impact on the MLB team for several years (or at least as of the rumors we've heard so far). I have no problem with adding to the prospect list, but unless you're accumulating for the purpose of winning a pennant then there is no purpose in accumulating! Trading Cutch simply proves that winning now takes a distant backseat to keep the pipeline full of cheap players.
I propose (again) a trade that will help the Pirates win a World Series AND prove that Nutting deserves to own an MLB team:
Trade Starling Marte straight up for Chris Sale. Period. Take on the additional $15M in payroll for the next three years (Sale is a bargain like Cutch!!). Make this window real. Move Josh Bell to OF, Jaso and Freeze handle 1st. Then sign Nova for $12M x 3 (if that's what it takes). Pirates want to contend for the WS? Push payroll to $120M/$125M by adding these 2 pitchers and let Cutch be the face of this team, the team he built, as he deserves to be, and as Pittsburgh deserves for the city.
If the Pirate made that type of commitment, watch Cutch and the rest of the team respond and PNC push to new record attendance.
Shezzz I hate the way this organization screws around - GO OUT AND FINSH THIS TEAM!
Anything else means Nutting is trying to field a team that is JJJUUUSSSTTT competitive enough to keep fans in the seats.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Trading McCutchen would be a betrayal by the Pirates . . .
616670787661262A53747E727A7F3D707C7E130 wrote: That is an absolute killer article. Thanks for posting Possum. If Nutting is unmoved by this piece I think we can agree that his name is really Ebeneezer Scrooge.
It would be one thing if moving Cutch was a regrettable but necessary baseball move, but it's not. It is another salary dump that will have a net negative impact on the MLB team for several years (or at least as of the rumors we've heard so far). I have no problem with adding to the prospect list, but unless you're accumulating for the purpose of winning a pennant then there is no purpose in accumulating! Trading Cutch simply proves that winning now takes a distant backseat to keep the pipeline full of cheap players.
I propose (again) a trade that will help the Pirates win a World Series AND prove that Nutting deserves to own an MLB team:
Trade Starling Marte straight up for Chris Sale. Period. Take on the additional $15M in payroll for the next three years (Sale is a bargain like Cutch!!). Make this window real. Move Josh Bell to OF, Jaso and Freeze handle 1st. Then sign Nova for $12M x 3 (if that's what it takes). Pirates want to contend for the WS? Push payroll to $120M/$125M by adding these 2 pitchers and let Cutch be the face of this team, the team he built, as he deserves to be, and as Pittsburgh deserves for the city.
If the Pirate made that type of commitment, watch Cutch and the rest of the team respond and PNC push to new record attendance.
Shezzz I hate the way this organization screws around - GO OUT AND FINSH THIS TEAM!
Anything else means Nutting is trying to field a team that is JJJUUUSSSTTT competitive enough to keep fans in the seats.
I totally agree with you. At least, I am coming to that point as I give Nutting the benefit of the doubt as he did turn around the team and has stuck to his word about increasing payroll up to this point.
They will sell you (us) that they are trading McCutchen so they can win a championship, they are improving the team down the road. Its just, we can only buy this for so long. And we went through this with another owner years ago that led to twenty years of losing.
I wish I knew their thought process. I can usually figure it out, but not this time.
It would be one thing if moving Cutch was a regrettable but necessary baseball move, but it's not. It is another salary dump that will have a net negative impact on the MLB team for several years (or at least as of the rumors we've heard so far). I have no problem with adding to the prospect list, but unless you're accumulating for the purpose of winning a pennant then there is no purpose in accumulating! Trading Cutch simply proves that winning now takes a distant backseat to keep the pipeline full of cheap players.
I propose (again) a trade that will help the Pirates win a World Series AND prove that Nutting deserves to own an MLB team:
Trade Starling Marte straight up for Chris Sale. Period. Take on the additional $15M in payroll for the next three years (Sale is a bargain like Cutch!!). Make this window real. Move Josh Bell to OF, Jaso and Freeze handle 1st. Then sign Nova for $12M x 3 (if that's what it takes). Pirates want to contend for the WS? Push payroll to $120M/$125M by adding these 2 pitchers and let Cutch be the face of this team, the team he built, as he deserves to be, and as Pittsburgh deserves for the city.
If the Pirate made that type of commitment, watch Cutch and the rest of the team respond and PNC push to new record attendance.
Shezzz I hate the way this organization screws around - GO OUT AND FINSH THIS TEAM!
Anything else means Nutting is trying to field a team that is JJJUUUSSSTTT competitive enough to keep fans in the seats.
I totally agree with you. At least, I am coming to that point as I give Nutting the benefit of the doubt as he did turn around the team and has stuck to his word about increasing payroll up to this point.
They will sell you (us) that they are trading McCutchen so they can win a championship, they are improving the team down the road. Its just, we can only buy this for so long. And we went through this with another owner years ago that led to twenty years of losing.
I wish I knew their thought process. I can usually figure it out, but not this time.
Trading McCutchen would be a betrayal by the Pirates . . .
3338303C3938236660172E363F3838793438570 wrote: McCutchen having two years left at a reasonable price is a bonus. His value wouldn't be much higher next year with one year left.
I was listening to MLB Channel on Sirius Radio and many experts had that thinking too. It just comes down to what the other teams think of him.
It is hard to disagree with that article by Gorman too. Nutting has always said he will add payroll when the team is good. He actually did do that too and the results were a playoff team. I am having my doubts now after giving Nutting the benefit of the doubt and praising him to sticking to his word.
Nutting doesn't deserve the BOD. He failed to build on positive momentum. Our height was nothing more than a wild card game participant and winning one of those games. After a 98-win season, we lost two significant arms. He didn't put forth the $$$ to replace them with good ones. He hasn't done anything to me that suggests he truly wants to win. Kansas City is a similar organization and they made the moves to get to the WS and win it.
The team was good, but he failed to add. Now, we hear Cutch on the blocks, possibly Watson and Harrison too. This screams cutting the salary. Everything coming back are prospects. So, he didn't follow through on his comments. Now, it looks like he is cutting the budget. How people can defend him is beyond me.
I was listening to MLB Channel on Sirius Radio and many experts had that thinking too. It just comes down to what the other teams think of him.
It is hard to disagree with that article by Gorman too. Nutting has always said he will add payroll when the team is good. He actually did do that too and the results were a playoff team. I am having my doubts now after giving Nutting the benefit of the doubt and praising him to sticking to his word.
Nutting doesn't deserve the BOD. He failed to build on positive momentum. Our height was nothing more than a wild card game participant and winning one of those games. After a 98-win season, we lost two significant arms. He didn't put forth the $$$ to replace them with good ones. He hasn't done anything to me that suggests he truly wants to win. Kansas City is a similar organization and they made the moves to get to the WS and win it.
The team was good, but he failed to add. Now, we hear Cutch on the blocks, possibly Watson and Harrison too. This screams cutting the salary. Everything coming back are prospects. So, he didn't follow through on his comments. Now, it looks like he is cutting the budget. How people can defend him is beyond me.
Trading McCutchen would be a betrayal by the Pirates . . .
7C5F4A4A4B43404E4B4A5D17172F0 wrote: I am very torn on the issue of trading McCuthen. I think that I have long been conditioned to be interested more or less in the Pirates trades than I am the game. Over the years since the early 1990's, all I had to keep me interested in the team was the comings and goings of which players. The on field product was always unworthy of my attention, but the hot stove became the point of interest because it always had false hope and promise of a brighter tomorrow. I am still conditioned this way! I have not really enjoyed the winning over the last few years because it has felt like an aberration not to be relied upon.
So, that is where I find myself. A passive viewer of their success with no real connection to it because it will be fleeting. I have signed back in here not to discuss their winning, but to see what is happening with the McCuthen, J-Hay trade. The idea of them being traded is exciting because maybe we'll get some new, exciting pieces that will make us a championship team. I know that this is a false belief and a lie, but that is where my emotional attachment to this team lies.
I'm totally fine with trading Cutch, Watson and Harrison AS LONG AS you go out and use that money saved in bringing in solutions that can help, not crap or reclamation projects. That is a lot of $$$ to go out and get some pieces assuming nothing but prospects come back. The problems is these "new pieces" that you call them can either prosper and help or be total failures. They better identify the right pieces for Cutch if they are shipping him out of town.
I truly think this franchise is heading back to where it was before the wild card appearances. Trading off bigger pieces for prospects; saving money and not going out to better the product. One day, I hope this fan base says enough is enough to Nutting and tells him by not showing up, his ownership has been garbage.
So, that is where I find myself. A passive viewer of their success with no real connection to it because it will be fleeting. I have signed back in here not to discuss their winning, but to see what is happening with the McCuthen, J-Hay trade. The idea of them being traded is exciting because maybe we'll get some new, exciting pieces that will make us a championship team. I know that this is a false belief and a lie, but that is where my emotional attachment to this team lies.
I'm totally fine with trading Cutch, Watson and Harrison AS LONG AS you go out and use that money saved in bringing in solutions that can help, not crap or reclamation projects. That is a lot of $$$ to go out and get some pieces assuming nothing but prospects come back. The problems is these "new pieces" that you call them can either prosper and help or be total failures. They better identify the right pieces for Cutch if they are shipping him out of town.
I truly think this franchise is heading back to where it was before the wild card appearances. Trading off bigger pieces for prospects; saving money and not going out to better the product. One day, I hope this fan base says enough is enough to Nutting and tells him by not showing up, his ownership has been garbage.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3631
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Trading McCutchen would be a betrayal by the Pirates . . .
7363625543434F200 wrote: I am very torn on the issue of trading McCuthen. I think that I have long been conditioned to be interested more or less in the Pirates trades than I am the game. Over the years since the early 1990's, all I had to keep me interested in the team was the comings and goings of which players. The on field product was always unworthy of my attention, but the hot stove became the point of interest because it always had false hope and promise of a brighter tomorrow. I am still conditioned this way! I have not really enjoyed the winning over the last few years because it has felt like an aberration not to be relied upon.
So, that is where I find myself. A passive viewer of their success with no real connection to it because it will be fleeting. I have signed back in here not to discuss their winning, but to see what is happening with the McCuthen, J-Hay trade. The idea of them being traded is exciting because maybe we'll get some new, exciting pieces that will make us a championship team. I know that this is a false belief and a lie, but that is where my emotional attachment to this team lies.
I'm totally fine with trading Cutch, Watson and Harrison AS LONG AS you go out and use that money saved in bringing in solutions that can help, not crap or reclamation projects. That is a lot of $$$ to go out and get some pieces assuming nothing but prospects come back. The problems is these "new pieces" that you call them can either prosper and help or be total failures. They better identify the right pieces for Cutch if they are shipping him out of town.
I truly think this franchise is heading back to where it was before the wild card appearances. Trading off bigger pieces for prospects; saving money and not going out to better the product. One day, I hope this fan base says enough is enough to Nutting and tells him by not showing up, his ownership has been garbage.
You're right about that, that NH/Ownership/whoever you want to pin it on had better get any Cutch deal right.
So, that is where I find myself. A passive viewer of their success with no real connection to it because it will be fleeting. I have signed back in here not to discuss their winning, but to see what is happening with the McCuthen, J-Hay trade. The idea of them being traded is exciting because maybe we'll get some new, exciting pieces that will make us a championship team. I know that this is a false belief and a lie, but that is where my emotional attachment to this team lies.
I'm totally fine with trading Cutch, Watson and Harrison AS LONG AS you go out and use that money saved in bringing in solutions that can help, not crap or reclamation projects. That is a lot of $$$ to go out and get some pieces assuming nothing but prospects come back. The problems is these "new pieces" that you call them can either prosper and help or be total failures. They better identify the right pieces for Cutch if they are shipping him out of town.
I truly think this franchise is heading back to where it was before the wild card appearances. Trading off bigger pieces for prospects; saving money and not going out to better the product. One day, I hope this fan base says enough is enough to Nutting and tells him by not showing up, his ownership has been garbage.
You're right about that, that NH/Ownership/whoever you want to pin it on had better get any Cutch deal right.
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rucker59@gmail.com
Trading McCutchen would be a betrayal by the Pirates . . .
74464A4A5E6C4F464B4E4146270 wrote: I am very torn on the issue of trading McCuthen. I think that I have long been conditioned to be interested more or less in the Pirates trades than I am the game. Over the years since the early 1990's, all I had to keep me interested in the team was the comings and goings of which players. The on field product was always unworthy of my attention, but the hot stove became the point of interest because it always had false hope and promise of a brighter tomorrow. I am still conditioned this way! I have not really enjoyed the winning over the last few years because it has felt like an aberration not to be relied upon.
So, that is where I find myself. A passive viewer of their success with no real connection to it because it will be fleeting. I have signed back in here not to discuss their winning, but to see what is happening with the McCuthen, J-Hay trade. The idea of them being traded is exciting because maybe we'll get some new, exciting pieces that will make us a championship team. I know that this is a false belief and a lie, but that is where my emotional attachment to this team lies.
I'm totally fine with trading Cutch, Watson and Harrison AS LONG AS you go out and use that money saved in bringing in solutions that can help, not crap or reclamation projects. That is a lot of $$$ to go out and get some pieces assuming nothing but prospects come back. The problems is these "new pieces" that you call them can either prosper and help or be total failures. They better identify the right pieces for Cutch if they are shipping him out of town.
I truly think this franchise is heading back to where it was before the wild card appearances. Trading off bigger pieces for prospects; saving money and not going out to better the product. One day, I hope this fan base says enough is enough to Nutting and tells him by not showing up, his ownership has been garbage.
You're right about that, that NH/Ownership/whoever you want to pin it on had better get any Cutch deal right.
Keep Cutch. Trade Marte for Sale. That's where the value is.
So, that is where I find myself. A passive viewer of their success with no real connection to it because it will be fleeting. I have signed back in here not to discuss their winning, but to see what is happening with the McCuthen, J-Hay trade. The idea of them being traded is exciting because maybe we'll get some new, exciting pieces that will make us a championship team. I know that this is a false belief and a lie, but that is where my emotional attachment to this team lies.
I'm totally fine with trading Cutch, Watson and Harrison AS LONG AS you go out and use that money saved in bringing in solutions that can help, not crap or reclamation projects. That is a lot of $$$ to go out and get some pieces assuming nothing but prospects come back. The problems is these "new pieces" that you call them can either prosper and help or be total failures. They better identify the right pieces for Cutch if they are shipping him out of town.
I truly think this franchise is heading back to where it was before the wild card appearances. Trading off bigger pieces for prospects; saving money and not going out to better the product. One day, I hope this fan base says enough is enough to Nutting and tells him by not showing up, his ownership has been garbage.
You're right about that, that NH/Ownership/whoever you want to pin it on had better get any Cutch deal right.
Keep Cutch. Trade Marte for Sale. That's where the value is.
Trading McCutchen would be a betrayal by the Pirates . . .
I'll be buying the MLB package so I can stream Indians games here. I won't trap my boys into Pirates or bust. I may never be able to escape that mentality, but I will do everything I can to help them avoid it.
This is a loser organization
Pirates in the NL, Indians in the AL. It's only 2 hours away... This is doable
This is a loser organization
Pirates in the NL, Indians in the AL. It's only 2 hours away... This is doable
Trading McCutchen would be a betrayal by the Pirates . . .
535A52434D370 wrote: I'll be buying the MLB package so I can stream Indians games here. I won't trap my boys into Pirates or bust. I may never be able to escape that mentality, but I will do everything I can to help them avoid it.
This is a loser organization
Pirates in the NL, Indians in the AL. It's only 2 hours away... This is doable
Right, lot's of room on the bandwagon there. There have been all sorts of people threatening to quit following the Pirates if they trade McCutchen. Have at it.
Heaven forbid we teach our kids that sports can be a lot like life. Sometimes things are stacked against you. Sometimes, there is no chance of winning. In life, you have to deal with losing and failure. I think that's one of the gifts of sports. At some point, everyone has to deal with losing and failure. My kids can keep on being a Pirates fan in the good times and in the bad times. They will be better people for it. It was an unbelievable joy celebrating the playoffs 4 years ago with my Pirates family and friends who, like me, had endured the history. It was the same way on this board that fall.
"The dark does not destroy the light, it defines it."
This is a loser organization
Pirates in the NL, Indians in the AL. It's only 2 hours away... This is doable
Right, lot's of room on the bandwagon there. There have been all sorts of people threatening to quit following the Pirates if they trade McCutchen. Have at it.
Heaven forbid we teach our kids that sports can be a lot like life. Sometimes things are stacked against you. Sometimes, there is no chance of winning. In life, you have to deal with losing and failure. I think that's one of the gifts of sports. At some point, everyone has to deal with losing and failure. My kids can keep on being a Pirates fan in the good times and in the bad times. They will be better people for it. It was an unbelievable joy celebrating the playoffs 4 years ago with my Pirates family and friends who, like me, had endured the history. It was the same way on this board that fall.
"The dark does not destroy the light, it defines it."
Trading McCutchen would be a betrayal by the Pirates . . .
534E6A6866030 wrote: I'll be buying the MLB package so I can stream Indians games here. I won't trap my boys into Pirates or bust. I may never be able to escape that mentality, but I will do everything I can to help them avoid it.
This is a loser organization
Pirates in the NL, Indians in the AL. It's only 2 hours away... This is doable
Right, lot's of room on the bandwagon there. There have been all sorts of people threatening to quit following the Pirates if they trade McCutchen. Have at it.
Heaven forbid we teach our kids that sports can be a lot like life. Sometimes things are stacked against you. Sometimes, there is no chance of winning. In life, you have to deal with losing and failure. I think that's one of the gifts of sports. At some point, everyone has to deal with losing and failure. My kids can keep on being a Pirates fan in the good times and in the bad times. They will be better people for it. It was an unbelievable joy celebrating the playoffs 4 years ago with my Pirates family and friends who, like me, had endured the history. It was the same way on this board that fall.
"The dark does not destroy the light, it defines it."
nonsense. sports is not this organization., in sports, you TRY your best and leave it on the field. the ownership group certainly isnt trying to win hes trying to make tons of money and hoping he happens to win in the process.
so save your life lessons for better examples. if the pirates (and fans like yourself) serve any good example, the example is DONT be suckered by words when actions are what matter. Dont allow yourself to become a victim of fraud/propaganda and if you do? for gods sake dont just go along with it blindly because of some nostalgia from 40 years ago. thats the life lesson
This is a loser organization
Pirates in the NL, Indians in the AL. It's only 2 hours away... This is doable
Right, lot's of room on the bandwagon there. There have been all sorts of people threatening to quit following the Pirates if they trade McCutchen. Have at it.
Heaven forbid we teach our kids that sports can be a lot like life. Sometimes things are stacked against you. Sometimes, there is no chance of winning. In life, you have to deal with losing and failure. I think that's one of the gifts of sports. At some point, everyone has to deal with losing and failure. My kids can keep on being a Pirates fan in the good times and in the bad times. They will be better people for it. It was an unbelievable joy celebrating the playoffs 4 years ago with my Pirates family and friends who, like me, had endured the history. It was the same way on this board that fall.
"The dark does not destroy the light, it defines it."
nonsense. sports is not this organization., in sports, you TRY your best and leave it on the field. the ownership group certainly isnt trying to win hes trying to make tons of money and hoping he happens to win in the process.
so save your life lessons for better examples. if the pirates (and fans like yourself) serve any good example, the example is DONT be suckered by words when actions are what matter. Dont allow yourself to become a victim of fraud/propaganda and if you do? for gods sake dont just go along with it blindly because of some nostalgia from 40 years ago. thats the life lesson