OnlyBucs

5750464E4057101C654248444C490B464A48250 wrote: when you look at the Nats and their prospects it looks like they have better prospects than the Bucs.



IMO, there is just no way to compete by almost totally relying on your farm system and marginal free agents (middle relievers and back ups).



The thing about Sale is he is worth a lot of prospects because of his track record, three years of control and low contract.  That is the kind of player the Pirates should want.



There is no reason to trade McCutchen unless a couple of very high end prospects come back (or a good major leaguer and a high end prospect).   Cutch for Robles is a much bigger gamble for the Bucs than an even deal. 


That's why I'm thinking package Marte - that's something the Nats can't match. 



I fully expect Cutch to bounce back. 




Will it get us over the Cubs? If not what's the point?

75474B4B5F6D4E474A4F4047260 wrote: when you look at the Nats and their prospects it looks like they have better prospects than the Bucs.



IMO, there is just no way to compete by almost totally relying on your farm system and marginal free agents (middle relievers and back ups).



The thing about Sale is he is worth a lot of prospects because of his track record, three years of control and low contract.  That is the kind of player the Pirates should want.



There is no reason to trade McCutchen unless a couple of very high end prospects come back (or a good major leaguer and a high end prospect).   Cutch for Robles is a much bigger gamble for the Bucs than an even deal. 


That's why I'm thinking package Marte - that's something the Nats can't match. 



I fully expect Cutch to bounce back. 




Will it get us over the Cubs?  If not what's the point? 


Sale plus one more (Nova), I think we can catch the Cubs. But Sale gets us through the wild card.

774549495D6F4C45484D4245240 wrote: when you look at the Nats and their prospects it looks like they have better prospects than the Bucs.



IMO, there is just no way to compete by almost totally relying on your farm system and marginal free agents (middle relievers and back ups).



The thing about Sale is he is worth a lot of prospects because of his track record, three years of control and low contract.  That is the kind of player the Pirates should want.



There is no reason to trade McCutchen unless a couple of very high end prospects come back (or a good major leaguer and a high end prospect).   Cutch for Robles is a much bigger gamble for the Bucs than an even deal. 


That's why I'm thinking package Marte - that's something the Nats can't match. 



I fully expect Cutch to bounce back. 




Will it get us over the Cubs?  If not what's the point? 


Maybe the Pirate brain trust realized last off season that there was no way to catch the Cubs and all planning is focused on getting ready for 2020 when Cubs need to regroup.



No matter what with the amount of talent the Bucs have they need to strengthen team and go for playoffs rather than taking a step back and rebuild.

6D4B4A5D4B5B280 wrote: when you look at the Nats and their prospects it looks like they have better prospects than the Bucs.



IMO, there is just no way to compete by almost totally relying on your farm system and marginal free agents (middle relievers and back ups).



The thing about Sale is he is worth a lot of prospects because of his track record, three years of control and low contract.  That is the kind of player the Pirates should want.



There is no reason to trade McCutchen unless a couple of very high end prospects come back (or a good major leaguer and a high end prospect).   Cutch for Robles is a much bigger gamble for the Bucs than an even deal. 


That's why I'm thinking package Marte - that's something the Nats can't match. 



I fully expect Cutch to bounce back. 




Will it get us over the Cubs?  If not what's the point? 


Maybe the Pirate brain trust realized last off season that there was no way to catch the Cubs and all planning is focused on getting ready for 2020 when Cubs need to regroup.



No matter what with the amount of talent the Bucs have they need to strengthen team and go for playoffs rather than taking a step back and rebuild.




I don't know what to think any more. They're not good enough to win the division and too good to just rebuild.

As currently constituted I don't see the Pirates being competitive enough to challenge for a division title. No amount of things going right for the Bucs and wrong for the Cubs adds up to a division title in my mind.



Adding Chris Sale to the starting rotation in a deal 1 for 1 for Marte gives our starting pitching a boost that puts us in the same league as the Cubs, Giants, Nats, Dodgers, Cards and Mets. We've got a legit chance in a Wild Card game facing those other teams' top pitchers. And if enough goes wrong for the Cubs we're in a position to take advantage of their failings.



If the Pirates organization is not actively competing for a championship then we should be rebuilding because they don't give participation trophies in MLB.

6C485C54513D0 wrote: As currently constituted I don't see the Pirates being competitive enough to challenge for a division title. No amount of things going right for the Bucs and wrong for the Cubs adds up to a division title in my mind.



Adding Chris Sale to the starting rotation in a deal 1 for 1 for Marte gives our starting pitching a boost that puts us in the same league as the Cubs, Giants, Nats, Dodgers, Cards and Mets. We've got a legit chance in a Wild Card game facing those other teams' top pitchers. And if enough goes wrong for the Cubs we're in a position to take advantage of their failings.



If the Pirates organization is not actively competing for a championship then we should be rebuilding because they don't give participation trophies in MLB.


Maybe? A theoretical Marte for Sale trade feels like robbing Peter to pay Paul.

576569697D4F6C65686D6265040 wrote: when you look at the Nats and their prospects it looks like they have better prospects than the Bucs.



IMO, there is just no way to compete by almost totally relying on your farm system and marginal free agents (middle relievers and back ups).



The thing about Sale is he is worth a lot of prospects because of his track record, three years of control and low contract.  That is the kind of player the Pirates should want.



There is no reason to trade McCutchen unless a couple of very high end prospects come back (or a good major leaguer and a high end prospect).   Cutch for Robles is a much bigger gamble for the Bucs than an even deal. 


That's why I'm thinking package Marte - that's something the Nats can't match. 



I fully expect Cutch to bounce back. 




Will it get us over the Cubs?  If not what's the point? 


Maybe the Pirate brain trust realized last off season that there was no way to catch the Cubs and all planning is focused on getting ready for 2020 when Cubs need to regroup.



No matter what with the amount of talent the Bucs have they need to strengthen team and go for playoffs rather than taking a step back and rebuild.




I don't know what to think any more.  They're not good enough to win the division and too good to just rebuild.




I agree. The funny thing is that no one else in baseball is good enough to compete in the regular season either. Though, if the Nats get one or both of McCutchen/Sale, I think they could.



How do you think the Cards approach the division? They have to feel the same way, right? They are just as far from the Cubs as we are, but they've got a good enough team to win the WC and go deep in the playoffs.

Marte for Sale ?  I just don't see it.  I love Marte, but I think many are over valuing his worth.  Yes he has a great glove and arm (best defensive LF in baseball).  Hits well (300+), great speed, but power is lacking (10-12 hrs and 60-70 rbi).  He also seems good for to miss 20-30 games every year due to injury.  While I do believe he is the best OF on the Pirates, I believe the Pirates would have to throw him several other top prospects to get the deal done (Glasnow for sure).  Probably have to send Harrison and/or Watson along with $$$ for their contracts.  Yes PBC does have the assets to get Chris Sale, but it will absolutely blow the farm and surplus up.  Of course, we could the trade Sale in a year or so and recoup some prospects back.

The Cardinals traded Jaime Garcia for prospects. He was due $12 million a year. If the Pirates did that, it would be a salary dump. I am not sure what it is called when the Cardinals do that.



With that said, the Cardinals are always mentioned in rumors. They are being linked to Dexter Fowler and his $18 million a year asking price along with the Blue Jays, who have interest.

6B5955554173505954515E59380 wrote: when you look at the Nats and their prospects it looks like they have better prospects than the Bucs.



IMO, there is just no way to compete by almost totally relying on your farm system and marginal free agents (middle relievers and back ups).



The thing about Sale is he is worth a lot of prospects because of his track record, three years of control and low contract.  That is the kind of player the Pirates should want.



There is no reason to trade McCutchen unless a couple of very high end prospects come back (or a good major leaguer and a high end prospect).   Cutch for Robles is a much bigger gamble for the Bucs than an even deal. 


That's why I'm thinking package Marte - that's something the Nats can't match. 



I fully expect Cutch to bounce back. 




Will it get us over the Cubs?  If not what's the point? 


Maybe the Pirate brain trust realized last off season that there was no way to catch the Cubs and all planning is focused on getting ready for 2020 when Cubs need to regroup.



No matter what with the amount of talent the Bucs have they need to strengthen team and go for playoffs rather than taking a step back and rebuild.




I don't know what to think any more.  They're not good enough to win the division and too good to just rebuild.




Boom. Nail on the head.

Losing Marte for Sale defeats the purpose of the trade (not to mention that they will also want Meadows and Keller).