4A4241766045626D030 wrote: I wonder if Cutch would demand a "no trade" clause if the contract was extended? Otherwise I'd like to see a 2-4 year extension. But we both know that's not going to happen.
Wouldn't an extension beyond three years make him a 10 and 5 player anyway? I think that's an automatic no-trade clause, no?
I think you're correct. Good catch. That will certainly be a factor in any contract extension.
NH-Spin Doctor!
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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rucker59@gmail.com
NH-Spin Doctor!
615C424F404A41634B5C4D4B4A2E0 wrote: It's almost like people don't know why they're angry, or who they're angry at. But they know that they're angry. A seamless transition from the 2016 election to MLB.
This maybe true, but I don't think anyone can shift blame to longtime Pirate fans. At a minimum this week was filled with a lot of rumors. What's actually true or not true will never be known to any of us. After listening to the rumors and with the facts we do have in hand I'd say there are probably a lot of folks feeling frustrated like Jolly Rodger. Unfortunately the FO has created this situation, not fans.
A similar example: when the Pirates acquired Drew Hutchinson the first reaction by me and most was "salary dump". Then Neal explained (more or less) that his interest was always in Hutchinson. For about 2 days I accepted this. Then I turned my brain on and it was all "hey, wait a minute".
It's just true - a lot of people, maybe Jolly Rodger, simply don't believe the FO any more. It's up to the FO to earn trust back.
This maybe true, but I don't think anyone can shift blame to longtime Pirate fans. At a minimum this week was filled with a lot of rumors. What's actually true or not true will never be known to any of us. After listening to the rumors and with the facts we do have in hand I'd say there are probably a lot of folks feeling frustrated like Jolly Rodger. Unfortunately the FO has created this situation, not fans.
A similar example: when the Pirates acquired Drew Hutchinson the first reaction by me and most was "salary dump". Then Neal explained (more or less) that his interest was always in Hutchinson. For about 2 days I accepted this. Then I turned my brain on and it was all "hey, wait a minute".
It's just true - a lot of people, maybe Jolly Rodger, simply don't believe the FO any more. It's up to the FO to earn trust back.
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JollyRoger
- Posts: 1469
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:31 pm
NH-Spin Doctor!
5E555D5154554E0B0D7A435B5255551459553A0 wrote: So, it is bad to hear offers and then counter offer?
I expected this negativity either way. Huntington couldn't pull off a trade: Loser. Huntington traded McCutchen: Salary Dump. No win situation for Huntington and the Pirates.
No it is not bad to hear an offer and then counter offer if you are actively shopping the asset. If you are countering then you are
Actively engaged and taking some initiative to make a deal. My problem is with NH stating after the fact that they never planned to move him and were only listening to offers.
I expected this negativity either way. Huntington couldn't pull off a trade: Loser. Huntington traded McCutchen: Salary Dump. No win situation for Huntington and the Pirates.
No it is not bad to hear an offer and then counter offer if you are actively shopping the asset. If you are countering then you are
Actively engaged and taking some initiative to make a deal. My problem is with NH stating after the fact that they never planned to move him and were only listening to offers.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3631
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
NH-Spin Doctor!
4D4A5C545A4D0A067F58525E5653115C50523F0 wrote: It's almost like people don't know why they're angry, or who they're angry at. But they know that they're angry. A seamless transition from the 2016 election to MLB.
This maybe true, but I don't think anyone can shift blame to longtime Pirate fans. At a minimum this week was filled with a lot of rumors. What's actually true or not true will never be known to any of us. After listening to the rumors and with the facts we do have in hand I'd say there are probably a lot of folks feeling frustrated like Jolly Rodger. Unfortunately the FO has created this situation, not fans.
A similar example: when the Pirates acquired Drew Hutchinson the first reaction by me and most was "salary dump". Then Neal explained (more or less) that his interest was always in Hutchinson. For about 2 days I accepted this. Then I turned my brain on and it was all "hey, wait a minute".
It's just true - a lot of people, maybe Jolly Rodger, simply don't believe the FO any more. It's up to the FO to earn trust back.
But there is also the "Tyler Glasnow Situation," where NH came out and said they were not bringing him up because he didn't have a changeup and was not ready for the big leagues. People decided he was lying about that because reasons.
This maybe true, but I don't think anyone can shift blame to longtime Pirate fans. At a minimum this week was filled with a lot of rumors. What's actually true or not true will never be known to any of us. After listening to the rumors and with the facts we do have in hand I'd say there are probably a lot of folks feeling frustrated like Jolly Rodger. Unfortunately the FO has created this situation, not fans.
A similar example: when the Pirates acquired Drew Hutchinson the first reaction by me and most was "salary dump". Then Neal explained (more or less) that his interest was always in Hutchinson. For about 2 days I accepted this. Then I turned my brain on and it was all "hey, wait a minute".
It's just true - a lot of people, maybe Jolly Rodger, simply don't believe the FO any more. It's up to the FO to earn trust back.
But there is also the "Tyler Glasnow Situation," where NH came out and said they were not bringing him up because he didn't have a changeup and was not ready for the big leagues. People decided he was lying about that because reasons.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
NH-Spin Doctor!
101701090710575B22050F030B0E4C010D0F620 wrote: It's almost like people don't know why they're angry, or who they're angry at. But they know that they're angry. A seamless transition from the 2016 election to MLB.
This maybe true, but I don't think anyone can shift blame to longtime Pirate fans. At a minimum this week was filled with a lot of rumors. What's actually true or not true will never be known to any of us. After listening to the rumors and with the facts we do have in hand I'd say there are probably a lot of folks feeling frustrated like Jolly Rodger. Unfortunately the FO has created this situation, not fans.
A similar example: when the Pirates acquired Drew Hutchinson the first reaction by me and most was "salary dump". Then Neal explained (more or less) that his interest was always in Hutchinson. For about 2 days I accepted this. Then I turned my brain on and it was all "hey, wait a minute".
It's just true - a lot of people, maybe Jolly Rodger, simply don't believe the FO any more. It's up to the FO to earn trust back.
You are still assuming a lie if you are saying they have to "earn trust back". Maybe they didn't lie at all?
I actually asked when Liriano was dealt that maybe it was a one to one deal but then Toronto asked for another player. In order for that to happen, Huntington said they had to take Liriano too. People laughed when I said that. Then Huntington came out and said that and people still didn't believe him.
People just don't like the front office and feel they haven't done enough. They will always be against the front office until they win a World Series (or not win it again after they did win one).
I give the front office the benefit of the doubt for turning things around. For making the playoffs three years in a row. Yeah, I want more. I wasn't happy with the 2016 off season or season. I understand that pain. But to think they are always lying blows my mind. They just can't win. Someone is complaining because they countered offered, wanted more for their star player??? Come on...that is a stretch to me.
This maybe true, but I don't think anyone can shift blame to longtime Pirate fans. At a minimum this week was filled with a lot of rumors. What's actually true or not true will never be known to any of us. After listening to the rumors and with the facts we do have in hand I'd say there are probably a lot of folks feeling frustrated like Jolly Rodger. Unfortunately the FO has created this situation, not fans.
A similar example: when the Pirates acquired Drew Hutchinson the first reaction by me and most was "salary dump". Then Neal explained (more or less) that his interest was always in Hutchinson. For about 2 days I accepted this. Then I turned my brain on and it was all "hey, wait a minute".
It's just true - a lot of people, maybe Jolly Rodger, simply don't believe the FO any more. It's up to the FO to earn trust back.
You are still assuming a lie if you are saying they have to "earn trust back". Maybe they didn't lie at all?
I actually asked when Liriano was dealt that maybe it was a one to one deal but then Toronto asked for another player. In order for that to happen, Huntington said they had to take Liriano too. People laughed when I said that. Then Huntington came out and said that and people still didn't believe him.
People just don't like the front office and feel they haven't done enough. They will always be against the front office until they win a World Series (or not win it again after they did win one).
I give the front office the benefit of the doubt for turning things around. For making the playoffs three years in a row. Yeah, I want more. I wasn't happy with the 2016 off season or season. I understand that pain. But to think they are always lying blows my mind. They just can't win. Someone is complaining because they countered offered, wanted more for their star player??? Come on...that is a stretch to me.
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JollyRoger
- Posts: 1469
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:31 pm
NH-Spin Doctor!
4A4D5B535D4A0D01785F55595154165B5755380 wrote: It's almost like people don't know why they're angry, or who they're angry at. But they know that they're angry. A seamless transition from the 2016 election to MLB.
This maybe true, but I don't think anyone can shift blame to longtime Pirate fans. At a minimum this week was filled with a lot of rumors. What's actually true or not true will never be known to any of us. After listening to the rumors and with the facts we do have in hand I'd say there are probably a lot of folks feeling frustrated like Jolly Rodger. Unfortunately the FO has created this situation, not fans.
A similar example: when the Pirates acquired Drew Hutchinson the first reaction by me and most was "salary dump". Then Neal explained (more or less) that his interest was always in Hutchinson. For about 2 days I accepted this. Then I turned my brain on and it was all "hey, wait a minute".
It's just true - a lot of people, maybe Jolly Rodger, simply don't believe the FO any more. It's up to the FO to earn trust back.
VA- We are usually on the same page here. I will admit to being a Nutting basher and will continue to be one until he backs up words with action. Until then I can only hope that one day an owner such as Mark Cuban rescues this Franchise.
However with regards to NH and FC I have always given them the benefit of the doubt as I believe they are not given sufficient resources to be consistently successful.
But recently going back to the Liriano debacle and now with this Cutch episode I have become very frustrated with the FO because I am hearing a lot of double talk. If you want to eliminate some of the frustration then just be honest with the fans. There does not seem to be a plan
What a mess. First you trade your closer(Btw: I thought the return was good) which I think led the team to believe that the FO punted on the season. Hence the "body language" comments.
Then the Liriano debacle.
No mention of offers being made to Sean Rodriguez and Matt Joyce thereby weakening a bench that was a strongpoint.
Now the Cutch debacle which will I believe affect team chemistry.
This maybe true, but I don't think anyone can shift blame to longtime Pirate fans. At a minimum this week was filled with a lot of rumors. What's actually true or not true will never be known to any of us. After listening to the rumors and with the facts we do have in hand I'd say there are probably a lot of folks feeling frustrated like Jolly Rodger. Unfortunately the FO has created this situation, not fans.
A similar example: when the Pirates acquired Drew Hutchinson the first reaction by me and most was "salary dump". Then Neal explained (more or less) that his interest was always in Hutchinson. For about 2 days I accepted this. Then I turned my brain on and it was all "hey, wait a minute".
It's just true - a lot of people, maybe Jolly Rodger, simply don't believe the FO any more. It's up to the FO to earn trust back.
VA- We are usually on the same page here. I will admit to being a Nutting basher and will continue to be one until he backs up words with action. Until then I can only hope that one day an owner such as Mark Cuban rescues this Franchise.
However with regards to NH and FC I have always given them the benefit of the doubt as I believe they are not given sufficient resources to be consistently successful.
But recently going back to the Liriano debacle and now with this Cutch episode I have become very frustrated with the FO because I am hearing a lot of double talk. If you want to eliminate some of the frustration then just be honest with the fans. There does not seem to be a plan
What a mess. First you trade your closer(Btw: I thought the return was good) which I think led the team to believe that the FO punted on the season. Hence the "body language" comments.
Then the Liriano debacle.
No mention of offers being made to Sean Rodriguez and Matt Joyce thereby weakening a bench that was a strongpoint.
Now the Cutch debacle which will I believe affect team chemistry.
NH-Spin Doctor!
It seems to me that getting upset about the "intent" of the Pirates F.O. is really an exercise in futility. No one but Huntington, Coonelly, and Nutting knows what they intended to do with Cutch for the past week or so.
Regardless, the end result is Cutch is still a Pirate. Much like their claims that they wanted to re-sign Sean Rodriguez and A.J. Happ or that they were "interested" in David Price, or that they targeted Drew Hutchison, or that moving Neil Walker was motivated by a desire to acquire Jon Niese, the claim that they intended to keep Cutch all along will reveal itself as truth or fiction in what happens next.
One thing for sure, Huntington will have an easier time at Pirate Fest facing Bucco fans with Cutch still being with the team, and now he can claim that it was his "intent" all along to keep him. ::)
Regardless, the end result is Cutch is still a Pirate. Much like their claims that they wanted to re-sign Sean Rodriguez and A.J. Happ or that they were "interested" in David Price, or that they targeted Drew Hutchison, or that moving Neil Walker was motivated by a desire to acquire Jon Niese, the claim that they intended to keep Cutch all along will reveal itself as truth or fiction in what happens next.
One thing for sure, Huntington will have an easier time at Pirate Fest facing Bucco fans with Cutch still being with the team, and now he can claim that it was his "intent" all along to keep him. ::)
NH-Spin Doctor!
4E6B68687D566B636176040 wrote:
Now the Cutch debacle which will I believe affect team chemistry.
What chemistry? It looked to me that they had none of that so-called chemistry stuff last season.
Now the Cutch debacle which will I believe affect team chemistry.
What chemistry? It looked to me that they had none of that so-called chemistry stuff last season.
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JollyRoger
- Posts: 1469
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:31 pm
NH-Spin Doctor!
6743575F5A360 wrote: It seems to me that getting upset about the "intent" of the Pirates F.O. is really an exercise in futility. No one but Huntington, Coonelly, and Nutting knows what they intended to do with Cutch for the past week or so.
Regardless, the end result is Cutch is still a Pirate. Much like their claims that they wanted to re-sign Sean Rodriguez and A.J. Happ or that they were "interested" in David Price, or that they targeted Drew Hutchison, or that moving Neil Walker was motivated by a desire to acquire Jon Niese, the claim that they intended to keep Cutch all along will reveal itself as truth or fiction in what happens next.
One thing for sure, Huntington will have an easier time at Pirate Fest facing Bucco fans with Cutch still being with the team, and now he can claim that it was his "intent" all along to keep him. ::)
That is certainly true that having Cutch there will deflect scrutiny on NH. Got to tip the hat to Cutch for going to PirateFest given what has transpired over the last week.
Imagine if Bob Nutting would actually show up to answer questions. Now that would be worth the price of admission
Regardless, the end result is Cutch is still a Pirate. Much like their claims that they wanted to re-sign Sean Rodriguez and A.J. Happ or that they were "interested" in David Price, or that they targeted Drew Hutchison, or that moving Neil Walker was motivated by a desire to acquire Jon Niese, the claim that they intended to keep Cutch all along will reveal itself as truth or fiction in what happens next.
One thing for sure, Huntington will have an easier time at Pirate Fest facing Bucco fans with Cutch still being with the team, and now he can claim that it was his "intent" all along to keep him. ::)
That is certainly true that having Cutch there will deflect scrutiny on NH. Got to tip the hat to Cutch for going to PirateFest given what has transpired over the last week.
Imagine if Bob Nutting would actually show up to answer questions. Now that would be worth the price of admission
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JollyRoger
- Posts: 1469
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:31 pm
NH-Spin Doctor!
36332437611013520 wrote:
Now the Cutch debacle which will I believe affect team chemistry.
What chemistry? It looked to me that they had none of that so-called chemistry stuff last season.
I think the chemistry took a hit after the Melanson trade. Other posters have noted the change in body language with some of the players and with Hurdle
Now the Cutch debacle which will I believe affect team chemistry.
What chemistry? It looked to me that they had none of that so-called chemistry stuff last season.
I think the chemistry took a hit after the Melanson trade. Other posters have noted the change in body language with some of the players and with Hurdle