Pirate morale to improve because Cutch is gone
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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OrlandoMerced
Pirate morale to improve because Cutch is gone
I'm not sure about the primadonna stuff, I just thought McCutchen came in to 2016 out of shape, when his defense and offense both tanked, he made public comments, blaming just about everyone else for his, and the team's struggles.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Pirate morale to improve because Cutch is gone
I am sure, overall, the players liked McCutchen being the face of the team. He was the one the media went to for everything. Plus, his play on the field backed up his attention.
For example, many Penguin players have come out and said how they love Crosby getting the attention and answering questions. It is something that most don't want to do day after day. I know it is a little different with the language barrier, but still.
I do think people automatically assume the best player is the team leader. I think that is where this article (opinion piece) was going. Just because McCutchen was the best player, doesn't mean he was the leader. I never looked at him as the leader of the team.
For example, many Penguin players have come out and said how they love Crosby getting the attention and answering questions. It is something that most don't want to do day after day. I know it is a little different with the language barrier, but still.
I do think people automatically assume the best player is the team leader. I think that is where this article (opinion piece) was going. Just because McCutchen was the best player, doesn't mean he was the leader. I never looked at him as the leader of the team.
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Bobster21
Pirate morale to improve because Cutch is gone
"The last few years had shown some petulant reactions to the game: temper tantrums, rolling eyes at umps, showing off in public venues (pregame dance routines, pushups after brushbacks, electric slides at 2B, etc). Add in the famous “this is my spot” exclamation in center field after Marte’s suspension (Cutch you’ve been graded the worst center fielder defensively basically EVERY year)."
This looks like fake news to me. Trying to make a story where there is no story. Temper tantrums? How many career ejections? One? Has there ever been a player who hasn't on occasion rolled his eyes at a questionable call? Wow, did he do a good natured pushup while on the ground after falling away from a close pitch? Maybe he should have charged the mound. I don't approve of the pregame dugout dancing but I get that it's him and several other players relaxing and having fun before the game starts. Not exactly as if Cutch wanted everyone to stop what they were doing and watch him. I don't know what the "electric slide at 2B" means. And I'd love to know what the "etc" is because I think it means the writer couldn't come up with anything else so he intimated that there was more--just take his word for it.
This looks like fake news to me. Trying to make a story where there is no story. Temper tantrums? How many career ejections? One? Has there ever been a player who hasn't on occasion rolled his eyes at a questionable call? Wow, did he do a good natured pushup while on the ground after falling away from a close pitch? Maybe he should have charged the mound. I don't approve of the pregame dugout dancing but I get that it's him and several other players relaxing and having fun before the game starts. Not exactly as if Cutch wanted everyone to stop what they were doing and watch him. I don't know what the "electric slide at 2B" means. And I'd love to know what the "etc" is because I think it means the writer couldn't come up with anything else so he intimated that there was more--just take his word for it.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Pirate morale to improve because Cutch is gone
"This is my spot" was pretty bad in my opinion.
I don't know what the "electric slide" was at 2B either.
I didn't like the "raise hands to God" (whatever you want to call it) tribute after he hit his first HR that one year ('16, '17), but I understood the moment. He was struggling and is the power bat.
McCutchen, in my opinion, didn't do anything different than other teammates. It is the era we live in now. Good players and veteran players get away with things that others don't (showboating a routine fly ball).
I don't know what the "electric slide" was at 2B either.
I didn't like the "raise hands to God" (whatever you want to call it) tribute after he hit his first HR that one year ('16, '17), but I understood the moment. He was struggling and is the power bat.
McCutchen, in my opinion, didn't do anything different than other teammates. It is the era we live in now. Good players and veteran players get away with things that others don't (showboating a routine fly ball).
Pirate morale to improve because Cutch is gone
122F222532342F727178400 wrote: I disagree with the article. Cutch is a hard-nosed player. He could make the HOF if he returns to pre-2016 form. He played injured. He stayed in CF when Marte returned because Marte wasn't eligible for the playoffs. He slid feet first on catches because he liked to play deep. He did win a gold glove in center, but I acknowledge that his defensive metrics were not good the last couple years. Better coming in than going back which is one reason he liked to play deep. When A-Rod came to Yankees, Jeter insisted that he stay at SS even though Jeter couldn't play SS as well. Cutch worked hard to improve his defense last year, and it was better than 2016, when they made him play 15 feet closer. I saw Cutch gaze at some balls he hit, and lollipop a few throws, but overall he played hard.
BELOW IS ALL OPINION from my viewpoint:
unless he plays well until he's about 40, he won't have any of the numbers to get to the HOF. 350 HRs, 250 SB, a .285 Average and less than 3000 hits isn't going to get it done. Especially considering his poor to awful defense in CF.
Cutch made a choice during the 2015 season. He decided to stop using his speed to steal bases and triple, in order to stay healthier / have a longer career. When he stopped stealing and tripling and starting trying to hit for more power (unsuccessfully, for the most part), he went from Elite to good.
I know I'm harping on the triples, but the PROOF is in the Pudding gentleman. Cutch has 8 triples in his last 3 seasons. Jordy Mercer has 8 in the last 2 seasons. That is a crime with Cutch's power/speed combination. I mean, give me a BREAK with that "heart and hustle" mumbo jumbo. the man won't even run his hardest to get that extra 90 feet when it's needed.
Cutch is NOT a hustler. None of the stats justify it. He likes to look good, he likes to make easy catches look difficult too. His effort is an illusion for the most part. Last year, the effort was better. 2015-2016 was terrible effort-wise.
He's still an ~.850 OPS outfielder and if you move him to a corner spot where he belongs, his defense should improve significantly as well.
BELOW IS ALL OPINION from my viewpoint:
unless he plays well until he's about 40, he won't have any of the numbers to get to the HOF. 350 HRs, 250 SB, a .285 Average and less than 3000 hits isn't going to get it done. Especially considering his poor to awful defense in CF.
Cutch made a choice during the 2015 season. He decided to stop using his speed to steal bases and triple, in order to stay healthier / have a longer career. When he stopped stealing and tripling and starting trying to hit for more power (unsuccessfully, for the most part), he went from Elite to good.
I know I'm harping on the triples, but the PROOF is in the Pudding gentleman. Cutch has 8 triples in his last 3 seasons. Jordy Mercer has 8 in the last 2 seasons. That is a crime with Cutch's power/speed combination. I mean, give me a BREAK with that "heart and hustle" mumbo jumbo. the man won't even run his hardest to get that extra 90 feet when it's needed.
Cutch is NOT a hustler. None of the stats justify it. He likes to look good, he likes to make easy catches look difficult too. His effort is an illusion for the most part. Last year, the effort was better. 2015-2016 was terrible effort-wise.
He's still an ~.850 OPS outfielder and if you move him to a corner spot where he belongs, his defense should improve significantly as well.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3631
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Pirate morale to improve because Cutch is gone
I really doubt that anyone outside the clubhouse "knows" if he is a leader, how much he "hustles" etc. The article sounded a little like sour grapes, though at the same time I also doubt he is the paragon that his fans take him to be.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Pirate morale to improve because Cutch is gone
I think triples are mostly lucky, not based on hustle. A weird bounce off some unusual outfield configuration, a ball getting stuck under a pad/corner, or a player falling down/misplaying a ball (should be an error) is how most triples come about. Sure, you can catch a player sleeping and get that extra base. That is very risky.
Harrison, the hustler, only had ten triples the last three seasons. Yeah, McCutchen had more chances, but still.
I don't think McCutchen is on pace for the Hall of Fame anymore. It isn't because of his triple totals. He needs to come close to his first nine seasons in his next nine seasons to have a shot. It also shows how hard it is to get into the Hall of Fame. Through his age, baseball-reference does have him compared to Dawson, Winfield, and Palmeiro.
Harrison, the hustler, only had ten triples the last three seasons. Yeah, McCutchen had more chances, but still.
I don't think McCutchen is on pace for the Hall of Fame anymore. It isn't because of his triple totals. He needs to come close to his first nine seasons in his next nine seasons to have a shot. It also shows how hard it is to get into the Hall of Fame. Through his age, baseball-reference does have him compared to Dawson, Winfield, and Palmeiro.
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Bobster21
Pirate morale to improve because Cutch is gone
313830212F550 wrote: I disagree with the article. Cutch is a hard-nosed player. He could make the HOF if he returns to pre-2016 form. He played injured. He stayed in CF when Marte returned because Marte wasn't eligible for the playoffs. He slid feet first on catches because he liked to play deep. He did win a gold glove in center, but I acknowledge that his defensive metrics were not good the last couple years. Better coming in than going back which is one reason he liked to play deep. When A-Rod came to Yankees, Jeter insisted that he stay at SS even though Jeter couldn't play SS as well. Cutch worked hard to improve his defense last year, and it was better than 2016, when they made him play 15 feet closer. I saw Cutch gaze at some balls he hit, and lollipop a few throws, but overall he played hard.
BELOW IS ALL OPINION from my viewpoint:
unless he plays well until he's about 40, he won't have any of the numbers to get to the HOF. 350 HRs, 250 SB, a .285 Average and less than 3000 hits isn't going to get it done. Especially considering his poor to awful defense in CF.
Cutch made a choice during the 2015 season. He decided to stop using his speed to steal bases and triple, in order to stay healthier / have a longer career. When he stopped stealing and tripling and starting trying to hit for more power (unsuccessfully, for the most part), he went from Elite to good.
I know I'm harping on the triples, but the PROOF is in the Pudding gentleman. Cutch has 8 triples in his last 3 seasons. Jordy Mercer has 8 in the last 2 seasons. That is a crime with Cutch's power/speed combination. I mean, give me a BREAK with that "heart and hustle" mumbo jumbo. the man won't even run his hardest to get that extra 90 feet when it's needed.
Cutch is NOT a hustler. None of the stats justify it. He likes to look good, he likes to make easy catches look difficult too. His effort is an illusion for the most part. Last year, the effort was better. 2015-2016 was terrible effort-wise.
He's still an ~.850 OPS outfielder and if you move him to a corner spot where he belongs, his defense should improve significantly as well.
I always felt like the club shut him down from SBs when he had some injuries including a knee issue. They wanted him as healthy as possible but could have told him to be a base stealer if they had wanted to. The fact that he suddenly ended that part of his game after having some injuries suggests to me it was a mgt decision. For that matter, they could have told him not to bust his butt for a 3B unless he thought it wouldn't be close. I don't know for sure but I think we have to consider that possibility before assuming he got lazy.
BELOW IS ALL OPINION from my viewpoint:
unless he plays well until he's about 40, he won't have any of the numbers to get to the HOF. 350 HRs, 250 SB, a .285 Average and less than 3000 hits isn't going to get it done. Especially considering his poor to awful defense in CF.
Cutch made a choice during the 2015 season. He decided to stop using his speed to steal bases and triple, in order to stay healthier / have a longer career. When he stopped stealing and tripling and starting trying to hit for more power (unsuccessfully, for the most part), he went from Elite to good.
I know I'm harping on the triples, but the PROOF is in the Pudding gentleman. Cutch has 8 triples in his last 3 seasons. Jordy Mercer has 8 in the last 2 seasons. That is a crime with Cutch's power/speed combination. I mean, give me a BREAK with that "heart and hustle" mumbo jumbo. the man won't even run his hardest to get that extra 90 feet when it's needed.
Cutch is NOT a hustler. None of the stats justify it. He likes to look good, he likes to make easy catches look difficult too. His effort is an illusion for the most part. Last year, the effort was better. 2015-2016 was terrible effort-wise.
He's still an ~.850 OPS outfielder and if you move him to a corner spot where he belongs, his defense should improve significantly as well.
I always felt like the club shut him down from SBs when he had some injuries including a knee issue. They wanted him as healthy as possible but could have told him to be a base stealer if they had wanted to. The fact that he suddenly ended that part of his game after having some injuries suggests to me it was a mgt decision. For that matter, they could have told him not to bust his butt for a 3B unless he thought it wouldn't be close. I don't know for sure but I think we have to consider that possibility before assuming he got lazy.
Pirate morale to improve because Cutch is gone
6B464B5A5D4C5B1B18290 wrote: I disagree with the article. Cutch is a hard-nosed player. He could make the HOF if he returns to pre-2016 form. He played injured. He stayed in CF when Marte returned because Marte wasn't eligible for the playoffs. He slid feet first on catches because he liked to play deep. He did win a gold glove in center, but I acknowledge that his defensive metrics were not good the last couple years. Better coming in than going back which is one reason he liked to play deep. When A-Rod came to Yankees, Jeter insisted that he stay at SS even though Jeter couldn't play SS as well. Cutch worked hard to improve his defense last year, and it was better than 2016, when they made him play 15 feet closer. I saw Cutch gaze at some balls he hit, and lollipop a few throws, but overall he played hard.
BELOW IS ALL OPINION from my viewpoint:
unless he plays well until he's about 40, he won't have any of the numbers to get to the HOF. 350 HRs, 250 SB, a .285 Average and less than 3000 hits isn't going to get it done. Especially considering his poor to awful defense in CF.
Cutch made a choice during the 2015 season. He decided to stop using his speed to steal bases and triple, in order to stay healthier / have a longer career. When he stopped stealing and tripling and starting trying to hit for more power (unsuccessfully, for the most part), he went from Elite to good.
I know I'm harping on the triples, but the PROOF is in the Pudding gentleman. Cutch has 8 triples in his last 3 seasons. Jordy Mercer has 8 in the last 2 seasons. That is a crime with Cutch's power/speed combination. I mean, give me a BREAK with that "heart and hustle" mumbo jumbo. the man won't even run his hardest to get that extra 90 feet when it's needed.
Cutch is NOT a hustler. None of the stats justify it. He likes to look good, he likes to make easy catches look difficult too. His effort is an illusion for the most part. Last year, the effort was better. 2015-2016 was terrible effort-wise.
He's still an ~.850 OPS outfielder and if you move him to a corner spot where he belongs, his defense should improve significantly as well.
I always felt like the club shut him down from SBs when he had some injuries including a knee issue. They wanted him as healthy as possible but could have told him to be a base stealer if they had wanted to. The fact that he suddenly ended that part of his game after having some injuries suggests to me it was a mgt decision. For that matter, they could have told him not to bust his butt for a 3B unless he thought it wouldn't be close. I don't know for sure but I think we have to consider that possibility before assuming he got lazy.
I thought his steals went down because he was running a lot less because of his knee(s). However, I agree with Dmetz in that he often doesn't seem to run hard out of the box. If he did that he would have more doubles and triples. I don't think he is unusual though in not getting to full speed quickly when leaving the batter's box. If the ball stays in the park and isn't a clear gap shop or down the line players seem to settle for singles earlier than they should.
BELOW IS ALL OPINION from my viewpoint:
unless he plays well until he's about 40, he won't have any of the numbers to get to the HOF. 350 HRs, 250 SB, a .285 Average and less than 3000 hits isn't going to get it done. Especially considering his poor to awful defense in CF.
Cutch made a choice during the 2015 season. He decided to stop using his speed to steal bases and triple, in order to stay healthier / have a longer career. When he stopped stealing and tripling and starting trying to hit for more power (unsuccessfully, for the most part), he went from Elite to good.
I know I'm harping on the triples, but the PROOF is in the Pudding gentleman. Cutch has 8 triples in his last 3 seasons. Jordy Mercer has 8 in the last 2 seasons. That is a crime with Cutch's power/speed combination. I mean, give me a BREAK with that "heart and hustle" mumbo jumbo. the man won't even run his hardest to get that extra 90 feet when it's needed.
Cutch is NOT a hustler. None of the stats justify it. He likes to look good, he likes to make easy catches look difficult too. His effort is an illusion for the most part. Last year, the effort was better. 2015-2016 was terrible effort-wise.
He's still an ~.850 OPS outfielder and if you move him to a corner spot where he belongs, his defense should improve significantly as well.
I always felt like the club shut him down from SBs when he had some injuries including a knee issue. They wanted him as healthy as possible but could have told him to be a base stealer if they had wanted to. The fact that he suddenly ended that part of his game after having some injuries suggests to me it was a mgt decision. For that matter, they could have told him not to bust his butt for a 3B unless he thought it wouldn't be close. I don't know for sure but I think we have to consider that possibility before assuming he got lazy.
I thought his steals went down because he was running a lot less because of his knee(s). However, I agree with Dmetz in that he often doesn't seem to run hard out of the box. If he did that he would have more doubles and triples. I don't think he is unusual though in not getting to full speed quickly when leaving the batter's box. If the ball stays in the park and isn't a clear gap shop or down the line players seem to settle for singles earlier than they should.
Pirate morale to improve because Cutch is gone
464D45494C4D561315625B434A4D4D0C414D220 wrote: I think triples are mostly lucky, not based on hustle. A weird bounce off some unusual outfield configuration, a ball getting stuck under a pad/corner, or a player falling down/misplaying a ball (should be an error) is how most triples come about. Sure, you can catch a player sleeping and get that extra base. That is very risky.
Harrison, the hustler, only had ten triples the last three seasons. Yeah, McCutchen had more chances, but still.
JHay had 10 in 1300 abs, cutch had 8 in 1700 at bats. Cutch has significantly more power and was faster.. JHay tripled 161% more often despite being slower and having less power. You're making the statistical case for me.
But still... I'll just add that to the end. "But still!"
Just look at Cutch's statsheet. 2015 the speed game vanished and he fell off across the board. Average went down, OBP went down (trying to hit for more power) triples cut in half, defense got extremely sloppy but the dancing and antics tripled (pun intended).
Maybe the team instructed him to become a 2-tool player to increase his longevity. I hear that. It's definitely a possibility.
I don't think the team told him to stand at home and stare at fly balls, but considering that he wasn't particularly good at basestealing anyway, I can see the team telling him to shut off the speed to save health.
That's a really dumb thing for the Pirates to do, imo, since there was almost no chance he was staying with this org past 31. we should be telling guys to go 110%! Save nothing! What do we care if these guys can still play with they're 33-34? They aren't playing for us
Harrison, the hustler, only had ten triples the last three seasons. Yeah, McCutchen had more chances, but still.
JHay had 10 in 1300 abs, cutch had 8 in 1700 at bats. Cutch has significantly more power and was faster.. JHay tripled 161% more often despite being slower and having less power. You're making the statistical case for me.
But still... I'll just add that to the end. "But still!"
Just look at Cutch's statsheet. 2015 the speed game vanished and he fell off across the board. Average went down, OBP went down (trying to hit for more power) triples cut in half, defense got extremely sloppy but the dancing and antics tripled (pun intended).
Maybe the team instructed him to become a 2-tool player to increase his longevity. I hear that. It's definitely a possibility.
I don't think the team told him to stand at home and stare at fly balls, but considering that he wasn't particularly good at basestealing anyway, I can see the team telling him to shut off the speed to save health.
That's a really dumb thing for the Pirates to do, imo, since there was almost no chance he was staying with this org past 31. we should be telling guys to go 110%! Save nothing! What do we care if these guys can still play with they're 33-34? They aren't playing for us