OnlyBucs

676C64686D6C773234437A626B6C6C2D606C030 wrote: I also think the potential is there in the rotation.  At least three of these guys have to stick, right? 




Hey Dog, did you misspell a word? ;D ;D ;D ;D

04252D042F27400 wrote: I also think the potential is there in the rotation.  At least three of these guys have to stick, right? 




Hey Dog, did you misspell a word?   ;D ;D ;D ;D




No.



Stick - be or remain in a specified place or situation

I think the lineup has a chance to be better then expected but so much has to go right for this team to win games and compete in this division. Marte and Polanco need big big years or this team is gonna have a very hard time winning games. They have a winnable schedule these first 10 games or so so getting off to a good start is very very important especially if they want to win fans back.

606B636F6A6B703533447D656C6B6B2A676B040 wrote: I also think the potential is there in the rotation.  At least three of these guys have to stick, right? 




Hey Dog, did you misspell a word?   ;D ;D ;D ;D




No.



Stick - be or remain in a specified place or situation




Dog this one hit you square in the head and you totally missed what I was getting at. Not at all a bashing of your grammar or spelling. Just a quick play on words of replacing "stick" with "suck". Now to you get my meaning? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Trying to create some humor here.

46676F466D65020 wrote: I also think the potential is there in the rotation.  At least three of these guys have to stick, right? 




Hey Dog, did you misspell a word?   ;D ;D ;D ;D




No.



Stick - be or remain in a specified place or situation




Dog this one hit you square in the head and you totally missed what I was getting at.  Not at all a bashing of your grammar or spelling.  Just a quick play on words of replacing "stick" with "suck".  Now to you get my meaning?   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D  Trying to create some humor here.




I got it. I don't think they rotation will stink and they will find some starters going forward during this rebuild.

2E252D2124253E7B7D0A332B2225256429254A0 wrote: I also think the potential is there in the rotation.  At least three of these guys have to stick, right? 




Hey Dog, did you misspell a word?   ;D ;D ;D ;D




No.



Stick - be or remain in a specified place or situation




Dog this one hit you square in the head and you totally missed what I was getting at.  Not at all a bashing of your grammar or spelling.  Just a quick play on words of replacing "stick" with "suck".  Now to you get my meaning?   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D  Trying to create some humor here.




I got it.  I don't think they rotation will stink and they will find some starters going forward during this rebuild. 


Dog you need to get with the program here at OBN. You see that most of the guys here feeling that the rotations sucks, the BP sucks, the hitters suck. So why are you being a positive and glass half-full guy when the rest are negative and glass-half empty guys? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I'm actually a bit bullish on the rotation. I was even before the Cole trade. Let's be honest...Cole has been a good, but not dominant, pitcher. to be sure, he has much higher upside than anyone currently in our rotation not named Taillon. But, as of yet, that upside has not been realized. I recall many times last year when people were ready to run him out of town. That's all a way of saying that I don't think his departure will hurt that much. I have no idea if 2018 Musgrove will outperform 2017 Cole, but I wouldn't say it's out of the realm of possibilities.



Thus, I think our rotation as it is currently structured can be ok and keep us in games. I don't think it will be great, and there is no true ace, but we haven't had one of those since when...Drabek? And I mean a guy who you knew every time he took the ball was going to give you a solid performance. 2013 Liriano was pretty close to ace level. 2015 Burnett and Cole were pretty good. And I'm not talking Kershaw level talent. Kershaw is a once in a generation type player. Very few teams are lucky enough to have a guy like him. But, you'd think over the last 25 years, we'd have a guy you could count on to be a perennial All-Star...a guy like Kluber, or Keuchel, or heck...Jon Lester. Maybe Taillon and/or Keller will become that guy.



Regardless, the point is this...Taillon, Kuhl, and Williams have all shown enough to warrant a longer look. Ditto for Musgrove. If Nova can eat innings and just go out there and bang strikes, I'll take my chances.



Ultimately, I don't think this team is very good. I'm sticking with 65-97. But, I have some reason to hope that 2019 could be interesting, hinging mostly on these guys maturing and developing, and Kingham, Glasnow, Brault, or Keller stepping into the rotation for Nova next year. Much of my prediction is based on playing in a competitive division. All things being equal, I think this is probably closer to a 75-78 win team. But, 19 games against each of the Cubs and Cards is going to hurt. At least we don't have to play the AL East this year...

I am curious to know what people actually think of Taillon.



I ask because I feel people didn't care if Cole left or not, but expected so much since he was the 1:1 draft pick. Well, Taillon was 1:2 draft pick. Taillon was drafted between Harper and Machado, two players who may get $300-$500 million dollar contract next year.



Taillon has 13 wins and 3.98 ERA in 43 starts. Cole did much better than that in his first two years (41 starts) with a mid three ERA and 21 wins.



Why is that same pressure or expectation not on Taillon?

676C64686D6C773234437A626B6C6C2D606C030 wrote: I am curious to know what people actually think of Taillon. 



I ask because I feel people didn't care if Cole left or not, but expected so much since he was the 1:1 draft pick.  Well, Taillon was 1:2 draft pick.  Taillon was drafted between Harper and Machado, two players who may get $300-$500 million dollar contract next year.



Taillon has 13 wins and 3.98 ERA in 43 starts.  Cole did much better than that in his first two years (41 starts) with a mid three ERA and 21 wins. 



Why is that same pressure or expectation not on Taillon?
Cole didn't have to deal with multiple surgeries and cancer. So comparing their production in their first 2 years is meaningless. But I think we'll see strong pitching from Taillon year.

6D6566514762454A240 wrote: I'm actually a bit bullish on the rotation. I was even before the Cole trade. Let's be honest...Cole has been a good, but not dominant, pitcher. to be sure, he has much higher upside than anyone currently in our rotation not named Taillon. But, as of yet, that upside has not been realized. I recall many times last year when people were ready to run him out of town. That's all a way of saying that I don't think his departure will hurt that much. I have no idea if 2018 Musgrove will outperform 2017 Cole, but I wouldn't say it's out of the realm of possibilities.



Thus, I think our rotation as it is currently structured can be ok and keep us in games. I don't think it will be great, and there is no true ace, but we haven't had one of those since when...Drabek? And I mean a guy who you knew every time he took the ball was going to give you a solid performance. 2013 Liriano was pretty close to ace level. 2015 Burnett and Cole were pretty good. And I'm not talking Kershaw level talent. Kershaw is a once in a generation type player. Very few teams are lucky enough to have a guy like him. But, you'd think over the last 25 years, we'd have a guy you could count on to be a perennial All-Star...a guy like Kluber, or Keuchel, or heck...Jon Lester. Maybe Taillon and/or Keller will become that guy.



Regardless, the point is this...Taillon, Kuhl, and Williams have all shown enough to warrant a longer look. Ditto for Musgrove. If Nova can eat innings and just go out there and bang strikes, I'll take my chances.



Ultimately, I don't think this team is very good. I'm sticking with 65-97. But, I have some reason to hope that 2019 could be interesting, hinging mostly on these guys maturing and developing, and Kingham, Glasnow, Brault, or Keller stepping into the rotation for Nova next year. Much of my prediction is based on playing in a competitive division. All things being equal, I think this is probably closer to a 75-78 win team. But, 19 games against each of the Cubs and Cards is going to hurt. At least we don't have to play the AL East this year...
I agree, and losing the Cole we had the last 2 years is hardly a big blow to the team.



I don't think it's coincidence or bad luck the Bucs haven't had a Drabek-like ace since Drabek. It's the MLB system. Arbitration kicks in after 4 years and free agency after 6. It usually takes pitchers several years to reach their ceiling. But the window for the Pirates is only until the pitcher is good enough to get a big payday in arbitration or in free agency. Even Kershaw was not a stud until year 4. Cole is still young and may yet become a star. But his window with the Pirates was closing as free agency looms after this year. As Freese said this year about Taillon, if he becomes a star, he'll be gone. We've been down this road before with Jason Schmidt, Jon Lieber, Esteban Loaiza. Maybe others I can't think off. Their window with the Pirates is too brief to reach their ceiling and even if they did, they'd be gone as soon as free agency hit. If you won't pay to keep home grown pitching or to acquire proven pitching, you won't have it.