OnlyBucs

674B43444F685F49592A0 wrote: I am looking for the Bucs to add young talent through trades, and have much less concern regarding the quality of the one-year free agent rentals who ultimately are signed.   That said, I don't want to see the Bucs succumb to signing the likes of Wad LeBlanc to a 1 year $3 mil deal.



Unfortunately, it also appears that most teams are now hording young talent even more than just 3 years ago.  As such, not sure how much trading Marte will yield.  Probably also means that the Bucs should keep Bell and hope that he has another monster month in June so they could trade him at peak value. 



[highlight]I am expecting to experience a lot of pain (mental anguish) next year while watching the Bucs. [/highlight]


I'm with ya Mainer. So I have sold all my guns, locked up all my knives and box cutters, blunted all the points on my scissors (need the scissors when I am doing my crochet to take my mind off the Bucs while watching them play). Also got a script from my Dr for supper powerful anti-depressant and anxiety meds. So I am set for 2020 Bucco "bad" ball. ;D ;D ;D ;D

6C414C5D5A4B5C1C1F2E0 wrote: C'mon, they re-signed Jake Elmore. What more do you want?


How about a couple Jake Elmore clones?

48696148636B0C0 wrote: I am looking for the Bucs to add young talent through trades, and have much less concern regarding the quality of the one-year free agent rentals who ultimately are signed.   That said, I don't want to see the Bucs succumb to signing the likes of Wad LeBlanc to a 1 year $3 mil deal.



Unfortunately, it also appears that most teams are now hording young talent even more than just 3 years ago.  As such, not sure how much trading Marte will yield.  Probably also means that the Bucs should keep Bell and hope that he has another monster month in June so they could trade him at peak value. 



[highlight]I am expecting to experience a lot of pain (mental anguish) next year while watching the Bucs. [/highlight]


I'm with ya Mainer.  So I have sold all my guns, locked up all my knives and box cutters, blunted all the points on my scissors (need the scissors when I am doing my crochet to take my mind off the Bucs while watching them play).  Also got a script from my Dr for supper powerful anti-depressant and anxiety meds.  So I am set for 2020 Bucco "bad" ball. 






You guys are a little more pessimistic than I am. I expect they will finish last in the Central Division, but I am hoping for a few more wins. I don’t expect them to have another July / August slide like they did last season. I too want to see the younger players in the lineup, but they need a few veteran type of players on the roster as well.

Right now, they payroll is in the low 60's, they are still likely to sign a 3-5 million dollar 4th outfielder and another pitcher in that range to fill the rotation, so the payroll will creep up to about 70 million.



So the lineup will essentially be:



Newman

Reynolds

Marte

Bell

Polanco

Frazier

Moran

Stallings



Bench - Reyes, Osuna, Gonzalez, (that catcher they signed) and the FA they bring in.



Rotation:

Musgrove

Archer

Williams

Free Agent

Keller (Brault the swing man)



BP:

Kela, RichRod, Kela, Santana, Feliz, Crick, Kuhl, Brault.



2021 poses some issues for what I imagine they are trying to do with this roster, and does make it seem like they will blow this roster up through the course of the rest of this offseason and the 2020 trade deadline.



In 2021 they have Archer, Polanco and Marte under contract for almost 35M, Stallings, Moran, Osuna, Crick, RichRod and Brault are all going to be 1st year arbitration eligible and will be making in the ~2M range. Then we're looking at Musgrove, Williams, Bell and Frazier all likely over 5M and probably approaching 10M for bell. So it's around 75M with 5-6 empty roster spots to fill, and unlikely to compete.



So my impression is that they are going to try and turn this roster over before 2021. At that point, all of Bell, Marte, Taillon, Musgrove, Williams, Archer, Frazier will be nearing the end of their control, and with the Pirates unlikely to try to sign any of these players to extensions under the new regime, they will likely see this as an impetus to turn the short term assets into longer term ones.

0F2E260F242C4B0 wrote: C'mon, they re-signed Jake Elmore. What more do you want?


How about a couple Jake Elmore clones?   :D


That's one wish you just might get!

I'm in the camp that hopes they don't go out and sign anyone who is going to improve the team much. IMO, just missing the playoffs is no better than coming in last place. We are not a play off team. There is no reason to sign middling players to be a solid 75 win team. Lose and lose big. Get your high draft pick.



The only reason to sign anyone decent is to trade them for more prospects at the trade deadline.



A secondary reason to sign a veteran player would be to provide a good veteran presence that demonstrates to younger players how to be a good pro baseball player mentally. I do think they could use a hitter and pitcher that could fill that role.

Also think that the best trade involving Marte would be Atlanta. They have the deepest farm system. I feel that they are all in, in regard to winning it all, and would be more than willing to trade prospects for Marte. Even include Kela.

42607768646B516A726B766D6C75050 wrote: Also think that the best trade involving Marte would be Atlanta. They have the deepest farm system. I feel that they are all in, in regard to winning it all, and would be more than willing to trade prospects for Marte. Even include Kela.
I think the best trade fit involving Marte is definitely San Diego. They have multiple catching and pitching prospects the Bucs could choose from. I would like to see Campusano a one of their LH pitchers (not named Gore who is untouchable) I the deal

7E6347454B2E0 wrote: I'm in the camp that hopes they don't go out and sign anyone who is going to improve the team much.  IMO, just missing the playoffs is no better than coming in last place.  We are not a play off team.  There is no reason to sign middling players to be a solid 75 win team.  Lose and lose big.  Get your high draft pick.



The only reason to sign anyone decent is to trade them for more prospects at the trade deadline. 



A secondary reason to sign a veteran player would be to provide a good veteran presence that demonstrates to younger players how to be a good pro baseball player mentally.  I do think they could use a hitter and pitcher that could fill that role.


Agreed. I'm a Philadelphia Sixers fan who was totally on board for the tanking part of The Process. Barely making or barely missing the playoffs is the worst place to be. The team has no realistic hope of making a playoff run and mid round draft position makes it harder to get the truly talented players needed to become a realistic contender.



If management is committed to building a true winner, it's going to be a long process. That's also why I'm not too worried about the payroll. It's going to be low, but I don't see a need to spend now given the talent.



(Although it does make me mad that Nutting gets to pocket more team revenues.)

60474C6F220 wrote: I'm in the camp that hopes they don't go out and sign anyone who is going to improve the team much.  IMO, just missing the playoffs is no better than coming in last place.  We are not a play off team.  There is no reason to sign middling players to be a solid 75 win team.  Lose and lose big.  Get your high draft pick.



The only reason to sign anyone decent is to trade them for more prospects at the trade deadline. 



A secondary reason to sign a veteran player would be to provide a good veteran presence that demonstrates to younger players how to be a good pro baseball player mentally.  I do think they could use a hitter and pitcher that could fill that role.


Agreed. I'm a Philadelphia Sixers fan who was totally on board for the tanking part of The Process. Barely making or barely missing the playoffs is the worst place to be. The team has no realistic hope of making a playoff run and mid round draft position makes it harder to get the truly talented players needed to become a realistic contender.



If management is committed to building a true winner, it's going to be a long process. That's also why I'm not too worried about the payroll. It's going to be low, but I don't see a need to spend now given the talent.



(Although it does make me mad that Nutting gets to pocket more team revenues.)


They don't have to tank to get a high draft pick. I don't think there's much doubt that they will have one of MLB's worst records this year and probably for several years. And the MLB draft is very different from NFL and NBA where there are a couple can't miss superstars waiting to be chosen. In a sport where even the top picks needs several years of minor league seasoning to be ready, there are no guarantees that the top 2 or 3 picks will turn out to be the standouts of their draft. You can look at any year's draft and see unproductive early picks and stars who were mid to low 1st rounders. I think the Pirates are rebuilding and will lose enough games without tanking to result in high draft picks. But in baseball there's no point in trying to lose games to ensure the highest possible pick when subsequent picks could turn out better anyway.