DH To National League

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GreenWeenie
Posts: 4012
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm

DH To National League

Post by GreenWeenie »

7E585F4A434F584E462D0 wrote: It's been a foregone conclusion for a long time. Like night games were going to ruin the game. And domes. And astroturf. Larger gloves. Steroids. Spider tack. Expansion. Lowering the mound. Replay. Corked bats. Analytics. First ballot entry into HOF. Pay per view playoffs. Expanded playoffs. Every WS game played at night. Tobacco ban. Persons of color. Women broadcasters. Women coaches. The shift. Long games. Mascots. Every game televised (blackout restrictions apply). Longer season. Divisional baseball. Brewers to the NL. Astros to the AL. Free agency. The "area" play. The Posey rule. The "unwritten rules". Bat tosses. Challenges. Three batter minimum. Runner on second in extras. Higher ticket prices. Higher concession prices. In game entertainment. Wifi. The Red Sox and Yankees "always" on Sunday night baseball.  Batting gloves. Batting helmets. And so many more.



[highlight][highlight]So many jumping off points where people say "The game is ruined". Yet there's MLB still rocking the changes and few have jumped off, at least if one can believe the continuing increase of revenues.

[/highlight][/highlight]

No game is the same. It was always better the way we learned to like a game. I don't  believe people leave but I do think their interest level wanes. I do believe people quit spending on it but yet they still follow there team.



And others learn to accept the changes, still enjoy being consumed by the game and still have that certain air of knowing the young fans today will be saying the same things when they get older.



As David Bowie once sang, "I watch the ripples change their size, but they never leave the stream Of warm impermanence. So the days float through my eyes, but still days seem the same. And these children that you spit on, as they try to change their worlds. They're immune to your consultations, they're quite aware of what they're going through."



I just hope if you find a jumping off point you think back to what you enjoyed and not focus on the issue where you said, "Enough." If you can't carry with the game, carry the joy you did have and share that instead.


In other words, the game is flourishing, so you and I must be "so called" fans. ;)



I love people.



I was in a bar once watching a game. A guy next to me was as into the game as I was. I enjoyed talking with him and listening to him.



Then, Jack had to join us, I guess.



The guy began to tell me about how great baseball used to be. No need to repeat it. Your list sort of covers it.



I looked at him and asked, "if baseball's so bad, then give me some reasons why you like it so much.



So, baseball's not perfect in some people's way of looking at it. Neither am I. Neither is anything else.



It's perfect enough.



"So it seems that the world keeps on turnin' but so what?

I don't doubt it, it just keeps on the move."



Skin It Back. ;)
Bobster21

DH To National League

Post by Bobster21 »

042924353223347477460 wrote: I would think that those of us who enjoy MLB are fans.  Those of us who are disgusted by it are something else.
I may have missed the news that someone was appointed the czar of fandom. IMHO, I believe it's very possible to love something and become disgusted at the direction it is taking. We can love MLB without licking the boots of the decision makers who want to change the game and submissively lapping up any and all changes they decide to make. 


7045525259605252595E52370 wrote: I didn't see that anyone was appointed czar of anything.  "I would think" is giving an opinion.  It's an opinion.  So, we have different opinions.  That's life.



Must be perfectly fine to go around using terms like "so called fans," though.
You always try to weasel out of something you've said. Obviously, you were stating your opinion. Which is that if you enjoy MLB you are a fan and "Those of us who are disgusted by it are something else." You didn't even include your disclaimer "I would think" in that line. But if you like MLB and are disgusted by changes the powers that be make to it, it doesn't mean you are now "something else" other than a fan. And I haven't used the term "so called fans." You must be thinking of some other fan, er, I mean, "something else."
GreenWeenie
Posts: 4012
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm

DH To National League

Post by GreenWeenie »

Weasel?  I hit it spot on.



One guy (Skinny, in this thread) says that we're not really fans ("So called") based on the mere fact that someone disagrees with him.  Who's the Fan Czar again? Sounds to me that we must have selected Czar Skinny.



[highlight]But some so called fans think baseball is flourishing.[/highlight]



Crickets from you on THAT.



I question that remark and defend myself, and you say something about what I wrote.



Yeah.  I weasel.



If I'm weaseling, then I'm not alone.



"Disgusted with the whole thing" (not part of it) but, I'm (Skinny) a real fan and you're (me) not." is the implication. 



I can't name one product or service that disgusts me and I am a fan of.  But, that's the difference between me and others.


johnfluharty

DH To National League

Post by johnfluharty »

I don't like the DH either. I'd rather they do something much more creative like allowing the pitcher to stay in the game even if he's been pinch hit hit for, and maybe something like allowing each bench guy to pinch hit two times per game, or some other concoction where pitcher can stay in and bench guys get more at bats. But baseball just isn't that creative. It is what it is. I can live with the DH.
2drfischer@gmail.c

DH To National League

Post by 2drfischer@gmail.c »

505552545C564F525B484E433A0 wrote: I don't like the DH either.  I'd rather they do something much more creative like allowing the pitcher to stay in the game even if he's been pinch hit hit for, and maybe something like allowing each bench guy to pinch hit two times per game, or some other concoction where pitcher can stay in and bench guys get more at bats.  But baseball just isn't that creative.  It is what it is.  I can live with the DH.


I'm very much opposed to the DH or any rule that allows players to remain in the game once they're substituted for, or are used one time to pinch hit, for example. That changes a critical part of the game far too much for me. One of baseball's great attractions, to me, is that once players are used, they can't return. There's beauty in the strategies involved because of that rule.



Having said that, I can understand why fans don't want pitchers to bat. My solution to it is simple, though, and currently available to all 30 clubs: set aside time everyday for the pitchers to work on their hitting, and that includes all through their minor league years.



The starters have five days between starts. Is it so hard to set aside 20-30 minutes each day for each guy to work with one of the hitting instructors, to take live batting practice multiple times between starts?



Most of these guys were also hitting stars as youngsters so they're not unfamiliar with a bat. There's no reason to think they can't improve a great deal, which would undoubtedly help them to win games during the season.
ArnoldRothstein

DH To National League

Post by ArnoldRothstein »

....My solution to it is simple, though, and currently available to all 30 clubs: set aside time everyday for the pitchers to work on their hitting, and that includes all through their minor league years.



The starters have five days between starts. Is it so hard to set aside 20-30 minutes each day for each guy to work with one of the hitting instructors, to take live batting practice multiple times between starts?


This is actually the crux of the problem: given that 20 or 30 extra minutes, pitchers would devote it to their pitching. Or to riding the stationary bike, or something that supports their pitching.



The reason why pitchers can't hit comes from a paradox: the failing is on the offensive side, but the cause is defensive. The pitcher is such a defensive freak that his offense plays no role in advancement. The trend toward that is over 100 years old now. If you want pitchers to hit .200 again, recreate deadball conditions and in ten years or so you'll get there.






Surgnbuck
Posts: 10791
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:42 pm

DH To National League

Post by Surgnbuck »

7B2D3B2F203A2A212C3B092E24282025672A490 wrote: I don't like the DH either.  I'd rather they do something much more creative like allowing the pitcher to stay in the game even if he's been pinch hit hit for, and maybe something like allowing each bench guy to pinch hit two times per game, or some other concoction where pitcher can stay in and bench guys get more at bats.  But baseball just isn't that creative.  It is what it is.  I can live with the DH.


I'm very much opposed to the DH or any rule that allows players to remain in the game once they're substituted for, or are used one time to pinch hit, for example.  That changes a critical part of the game far too much for me.  One of baseball's great attractions, to me, is that once players are used, they can't return.  There's beauty in the strategies involved because of that rule. 



Having said that, I can understand why fans don't want pitchers to bat. My solution to it is simple, though, and currently available to all 30 clubs:  set aside time everyday for the pitchers to work on their hitting, and that includes all through their minor league years. 



The starters have five days between starts.  Is it so hard to set aside 20-30 minutes each day for each guy to work with one of the hitting instructors, to take live batting practice multiple times between starts? 



Most of these guys were also hitting stars as youngsters so they're not unfamiliar with a bat.  There's no reason to think they can't improve a great deal, which would undoubtedly help them to win games during the season.
How much time did your favorite from last season, Gregory Polanco, spend in batting practice? I don't think it's going to move the needle much in their batting averages TBH.
2drfischer@gmail.c

DH To National League

Post by 2drfischer@gmail.c »

695A4647444C7A475C405B5C4D4146280 wrote: ....My solution to it is simple, though, and currently available to all 30 clubs:  set aside time everyday for the pitchers to work on their hitting, and that includes all through their minor league years.



The starters have five days between starts.  Is it so hard to set aside 20-30 minutes each day for each guy to work with one of the hitting instructors, to take live batting practice multiple times between starts?


This is actually the crux of the problem: given that 20 or 30 extra minutes, pitchers would devote it to their pitching. Or to riding the stationary bike, or something that supports their pitching.



The reason why pitchers can't hit comes from a paradox: the failing is on the offensive side, but the cause is defensive. The pitcher is such a defensive freak that his offense plays no role in advancement. The trend toward that is over 100 years old now. If you want pitchers to hit .200 again, recreate deadball conditions and in ten years or so you'll get there.



Devoting 20-30 minutes of time to something they're not very good at could lead to greater improvement.  There's nothing to lose and everything to gain.






If devoting 20-30 extra minutes to their pitching would improve their performance, then why don't pitchers do that?  The answer of course is diminishing returns.  In addition, their arms would be useless by August.
2drfischer@gmail.c

DH To National League

Post by 2drfischer@gmail.c »

5F797E6B626E796F670C0 wrote: I don't like the DH either.  I'd rather they do something much more creative like allowing the pitcher to stay in the game even if he's been pinch hit hit for, and maybe something like allowing each bench guy to pinch hit two times per game, or some other concoction where pitcher can stay in and bench guys get more at bats.  But baseball just isn't that creative.  It is what it is.  I can live with the DH.


I'm very much opposed to the DH or any rule that allows players to remain in the game once they're substituted for, or are used one time to pinch hit, for example.  That changes a critical part of the game far too much for me.  One of baseball's great attractions, to me, is that once players are used, they can't return.  There's beauty in the strategies involved because of that rule. 



Having said that, I can understand why fans don't want pitchers to bat. My solution to it is simple, though, and currently available to all 30 clubs:  set aside time everyday for the pitchers to work on their hitting, and that includes all through their minor league years. 



The starters have five days between starts.  Is it so hard to set aside 20-30 minutes each day for each guy to work with one of the hitting instructors, to take live batting practice multiple times between starts? 



Most of these guys were also hitting stars as youngsters so they're not unfamiliar with a bat.  There's no reason to think they can't improve a great deal, which would undoubtedly help them to win games during the season.
How much time did your favorite from last season, Gregory Polanco, spend in batting practice?  I don't think it's going to move the needle much in their batting averages TBH.


Again, diminishing returns.  It wasn't going to matter how much more work Polanco put in, he wasn't going to improve.  He proved it time after time.



I wouldn't expect a pitcher to become as good as a position player with the bat but, if a pitcher could improve from hitting .097 to hitting .197, could put the ball in play more often instead of accepting a strike out, and could especially improve his ability to bunt successfully, that has to lead to much better outcomes. 



What it comes down to for me is that every player in the line-up was meant to both play in the field and hit.  Changing that incredibly important rule was too much for me.
Bobster21

DH To National League

Post by Bobster21 »

As fans, we have no say in the DH matter. It's coming and I doubt few if any will give up following their favorite NL team because of the DH. But I can say from my own perspective that I've been a fan of the Orioles since the mid 1960s as my 2nd team. And while I don't follow them with the passion I have for the Pirates, I've been familiar with them and AL baseball for a long time and watched and attended countless games. But I never reached a point where I felt the DH was fine and enjoyed AL baseball as much as NL baseball. It's always been a barrier to me fully enjoying the AL game. It's all so simplified when you add a thumper to the middle of the lineup whose defensive liabilities are no longer an issue and you no longer can pitch around the bottom of the order to get to the pitcher who might even help his own cause with a sac bunt or an infrequent hit. But the DH is coming and that's the only baseball we'll have. A lesser version of the game IMHO. But that's that. In time, future generations will have a hard time believing the game was ever played any differently. But for those of us who grew up on one version of the game and don't want to see it changed, I suspect most of us will accept it without ever fully embracing it.
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