4B7E6969625B69696265690C0 wrote: Never work- anywhere, or at any time. Fans will be on an individual basis, but there are going to be times when we'll have more individuals than other times.
Witness Pittsburgh.
Someone tried to organize a mass walkout when the team was about as bad as it gets.
What happened?
The overwhelming majority of the fans in attendance at that game came prepared. They knew of this "walkout," such as it was, and they loudly booed the few that walked out.
I don't know how the press covered it. I have my expectations of how they probably did. I'm not sure that it even registered a blip on the national scale- meaning, that it probably didn't do much to spring management or ownership into much action.
Although, some have said that that the team made a key trade because of it. I don't recall whether that happened, or whether this "protest" had much to do with it.
We'll know how upset fans are by looking at nightly attendance. But, that's just one source of MLB revenue. It's a big sign, though.
Some fans might be happy enough that MLB's back. I'd like to know whether ticket price increases have more of an effect on overall attendance than work stoppages do. That would take a while to figure out.
I remember that episode well
The fans that stayed booed the fans that started leaving
I also remember that after the pissed fans left; Nutting was shown applauding the fans that stayed.
I know the fans will never get a voice.
It’s just a shame that 95% of the negotiations is just about money
Nothing to improve competitive balance
The only positive I see is enforcing the pitch clock
The next CBA and the future of MLB
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
The next CBA and the future of MLB
Implement a floor of $125 million.
Force BOB to spend it on the 25-man roster no later than 2025.
That gives him sufficient time to change his wicked ways or sell.
Even today, I feel that Pirates fans should expect him to be on equal term with Milwaukee, Cincinnati, and St. Louis.
I dont blame fans for being disgusted with him. He's an incompetent owner, on the same level as the Ford family in Detroit (NFL) and others, like multiple Browns owners have been.
We'll sit back and watch kids pass through town for a while, and cheer for them as best we can. Enjoy them while they're here.
Frankly, I think we've been far too easy on him. Thankfully, I love the sport enough to accept things for what they are.
Force BOB to spend it on the 25-man roster no later than 2025.
That gives him sufficient time to change his wicked ways or sell.
Even today, I feel that Pirates fans should expect him to be on equal term with Milwaukee, Cincinnati, and St. Louis.
I dont blame fans for being disgusted with him. He's an incompetent owner, on the same level as the Ford family in Detroit (NFL) and others, like multiple Browns owners have been.
We'll sit back and watch kids pass through town for a while, and cheer for them as best we can. Enjoy them while they're here.
Frankly, I think we've been far too easy on him. Thankfully, I love the sport enough to accept things for what they are.
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skinnyhorse
- Posts: 926
- Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:19 am
The next CBA and the future of MLB
Doc: So you believe that baseball players should have their incomes limited? Who decides what the limit should be? Does that also apply to other workers or do you want to just discriminate against baseball players? If I believed that you made too much money in your job, could I start a movement to limit your income?
Yes, I would hope everyone does. Everything and everybody must have limits, without limits we will live in a lawless chaotic world/society.
You bet I believe many CEO’s and others are overpaid. Real competition would control all of this, but unions and monopolies stop real competition. Government has totally failed in the area of monopolies and unions that is the only thing we need government involvement in business and because of corruption they are failing to control these entities.
You have a right to start a campaign to limit my income but I don’t think you would have any credibility or success there. Most people have enough common sense to realize when they are getting gouged. But feel free to start your campaign today.
Doc: If your boss offered you a salary of $300 million, or even $5 million, would you turn it down because some might think you to be greedy? How much more would have to be offered before you told your boss that was enough?
I can’t believe some people have no self awareness. Monarchy went away sometime after the French Revolution but many yearn to bring them back, at their own peril. I would never have the nerve to ask for such a ridiculous salary nor would I hire a agent to negotiate for me. How much can anyone indulge themselves.
Pretty sure 1/2 million a year guaranteed for 10 years would work for me no matter how bad a job I did after I sign the contract. I can't believe any fool would give a person such a contract, only in baseball.
doc: I've attended many major league baseball games and have yet to pay a single player. Neither has any other fan. We've paid the owners, who've then decided what to do with that money, which was theirs to spend as they saw fit. None of us had any determination, authority, or vote as to how much went to the players
That’s cold, any owner/player who doesn’t care about the fans should fail, that attitude should be troubling to everyone.
To me this is all about taking back control of the game. Attendance has been dropping over the years even as our population continues to grow.
When a owner, player or a coach or a line worker becomes only interested in their wellbeing then they lose some of their humanity and society starts breaking down. It is best reflected in our society by marriage. If a person is only interested in themselves then society starts breaking down. I think that‘s what missing in sports today. Players have absolutely no loyalty to their team/organization, their fans to anyone except themselves. I’m no saint but this discussion goes to the heart of the matter. Players, owners and some fans have lost all prospective. Players and Owners have lost all respect for fan. It's time we demand some.
Yes, I would hope everyone does. Everything and everybody must have limits, without limits we will live in a lawless chaotic world/society.
You bet I believe many CEO’s and others are overpaid. Real competition would control all of this, but unions and monopolies stop real competition. Government has totally failed in the area of monopolies and unions that is the only thing we need government involvement in business and because of corruption they are failing to control these entities.
You have a right to start a campaign to limit my income but I don’t think you would have any credibility or success there. Most people have enough common sense to realize when they are getting gouged. But feel free to start your campaign today.
Doc: If your boss offered you a salary of $300 million, or even $5 million, would you turn it down because some might think you to be greedy? How much more would have to be offered before you told your boss that was enough?
I can’t believe some people have no self awareness. Monarchy went away sometime after the French Revolution but many yearn to bring them back, at their own peril. I would never have the nerve to ask for such a ridiculous salary nor would I hire a agent to negotiate for me. How much can anyone indulge themselves.
Pretty sure 1/2 million a year guaranteed for 10 years would work for me no matter how bad a job I did after I sign the contract. I can't believe any fool would give a person such a contract, only in baseball.
doc: I've attended many major league baseball games and have yet to pay a single player. Neither has any other fan. We've paid the owners, who've then decided what to do with that money, which was theirs to spend as they saw fit. None of us had any determination, authority, or vote as to how much went to the players
That’s cold, any owner/player who doesn’t care about the fans should fail, that attitude should be troubling to everyone.
To me this is all about taking back control of the game. Attendance has been dropping over the years even as our population continues to grow.
When a owner, player or a coach or a line worker becomes only interested in their wellbeing then they lose some of their humanity and society starts breaking down. It is best reflected in our society by marriage. If a person is only interested in themselves then society starts breaking down. I think that‘s what missing in sports today. Players have absolutely no loyalty to their team/organization, their fans to anyone except themselves. I’m no saint but this discussion goes to the heart of the matter. Players, owners and some fans have lost all prospective. Players and Owners have lost all respect for fan. It's time we demand some.
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Bobster21
The next CBA and the future of MLB
164056424D57474C4156644349454D480A47240 wrote:
So you believe that baseball players should have their incomes limited? Who decides what the limit should be? Does that also apply to other workers or do you want to just discriminate against baseball players?
Doc, some industries and businesses have pay scales and salary ranges. I had a long career with the federal govt. We aspired to be promoted to a higher grade to be put in a higher salary range. And you could move up in that range by performance or years of service. So salaries were limited by the established pay structure. The govt isn't the only employer that follows rules for pay structure. I don't have a problem with the idea that every member of a baseball team need not be entitled to a theoretically limitless salary. In baseball, the only structured salary is the minimum. Beyond that, it's all you can get. I wouldn't mind seeing some limits put in place based on ranges determined by performance and years of service. It will never happen but I don't think the concept is unreasonable.
So you believe that baseball players should have their incomes limited? Who decides what the limit should be? Does that also apply to other workers or do you want to just discriminate against baseball players?
Doc, some industries and businesses have pay scales and salary ranges. I had a long career with the federal govt. We aspired to be promoted to a higher grade to be put in a higher salary range. And you could move up in that range by performance or years of service. So salaries were limited by the established pay structure. The govt isn't the only employer that follows rules for pay structure. I don't have a problem with the idea that every member of a baseball team need not be entitled to a theoretically limitless salary. In baseball, the only structured salary is the minimum. Beyond that, it's all you can get. I wouldn't mind seeing some limits put in place based on ranges determined by performance and years of service. It will never happen but I don't think the concept is unreasonable.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
The next CBA and the future of MLB
I understand the reasons for many organizations to have compensation structures and policies, but I think that pro sports are too different.
When it comes to certain occupations (sales, athletes, entertainers, for example) I'm hesitant to put a cap on their potential earnings.
I'm not familiar enough with government or public sector work. I wouldn't know whether federal, state, or local governments have positions that drive revenue or increase efficiencies to the point where we could have unlimited pay potential. But, I'd still want my very best performing employees to be rewarded far and away more than those who are "on cruise control," so to speak.
A hotshot salesperson, entertainer, athlete, or client relations person can bring in so much profitable business (revenue less expenses) that it could potentially carry everyone else. I've seen that happen more than once. If we put restrictions on their earning potential, then it gives them less incentive to do even better going forward.
I want my athletes to keep striving. If compensation is one of their bigger motivating factors, so be it. They'll make more. My organization will make more (at least, in theory.) It's a win win, and I've had enough losing to last ten lifetimes.
I want my entertainers to keep aiming for new and better skills. Otherwise, I'm less entertained. I'm willing to pay for it if I like them enough.
I'm also fine with owners earning as much as they possibly can. One way to do that is by providing fans with high quality play, relatively speaking- to the competition.
"Greed is good." "Complacency is devastating."
When it comes to certain occupations (sales, athletes, entertainers, for example) I'm hesitant to put a cap on their potential earnings.
I'm not familiar enough with government or public sector work. I wouldn't know whether federal, state, or local governments have positions that drive revenue or increase efficiencies to the point where we could have unlimited pay potential. But, I'd still want my very best performing employees to be rewarded far and away more than those who are "on cruise control," so to speak.
A hotshot salesperson, entertainer, athlete, or client relations person can bring in so much profitable business (revenue less expenses) that it could potentially carry everyone else. I've seen that happen more than once. If we put restrictions on their earning potential, then it gives them less incentive to do even better going forward.
I want my athletes to keep striving. If compensation is one of their bigger motivating factors, so be it. They'll make more. My organization will make more (at least, in theory.) It's a win win, and I've had enough losing to last ten lifetimes.
I want my entertainers to keep aiming for new and better skills. Otherwise, I'm less entertained. I'm willing to pay for it if I like them enough.
I'm also fine with owners earning as much as they possibly can. One way to do that is by providing fans with high quality play, relatively speaking- to the competition.
"Greed is good." "Complacency is devastating."
The next CBA and the future of MLB
Some thoughts on a salary cap - https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/fo ... li=BBnbfcL
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
The next CBA and the future of MLB
Venting
=====
"If we don't reach a deal by _______, we're going to cancel _____ games."
Day comes. Then it's
"Now, if we reach a deal by _________, we won't have to cancel games."
Day comes. Then, its something else.
BOB must be in charge. Or, maybe FC's doing some work for MLB. (Anyone know what he's up to these days?)
Just shut up. Negotiate. Then, tells us what you did, not what you're going to do, maybe. With fingers crossed behind your back.
Trying to make us think that you're working hard isn't convincing anybody.
Act like adults. Tell us when you're done.
It's hard for me to believe that people who earn the kind of money that they do go about their work this way.
No wonder people are angry.
=====
"If we don't reach a deal by _______, we're going to cancel _____ games."
Day comes. Then it's
"Now, if we reach a deal by _________, we won't have to cancel games."
Day comes. Then, its something else.
BOB must be in charge. Or, maybe FC's doing some work for MLB. (Anyone know what he's up to these days?)
Just shut up. Negotiate. Then, tells us what you did, not what you're going to do, maybe. With fingers crossed behind your back.
Trying to make us think that you're working hard isn't convincing anybody.
Act like adults. Tell us when you're done.
It's hard for me to believe that people who earn the kind of money that they do go about their work this way.
No wonder people are angry.
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WildwoodDave2
The next CBA and the future of MLB
477265656E5765656E6965000 wrote: Venting
=====
"If we don't reach a deal by _______, we're going to cancel _____ games."
Day comes. Then it's
"Now, if we reach a deal by _________, we won't have to cancel games."
Day comes. Then, its something else.
BOB must be in charge. Or, maybe FC's doing some work for MLB. (Anyone know what he's up to these days?)
Just shut up. Negotiate. Then, tells us what you did, not what you're going to do, maybe. With fingers crossed behind your back.
Trying to make us think that you're working hard isn't convincing anybody.
Act like adults. Tell us when you're done.
It's hard for me to believe that people who earn the kind of money that they do go about their work this way.
No wonder people are angry.
Don't know if they are angry. Maybe apathetic would be a better word
=====
"If we don't reach a deal by _______, we're going to cancel _____ games."
Day comes. Then it's
"Now, if we reach a deal by _________, we won't have to cancel games."
Day comes. Then, its something else.
BOB must be in charge. Or, maybe FC's doing some work for MLB. (Anyone know what he's up to these days?)
Just shut up. Negotiate. Then, tells us what you did, not what you're going to do, maybe. With fingers crossed behind your back.
Trying to make us think that you're working hard isn't convincing anybody.
Act like adults. Tell us when you're done.
It's hard for me to believe that people who earn the kind of money that they do go about their work this way.
No wonder people are angry.
Don't know if they are angry. Maybe apathetic would be a better word
The next CBA and the future of MLB
I'm guessing some people are angry but the vast majority have just tuned it out. You actually have to search to find anything about it. Imagine if this were the NFL. You wouldn't be able to open your eyelids in the morning without being bombarded. For baseball, almost nothing.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
The next CBA and the future of MLB
625C5951425A5A517154435007350 wrote: Venting
=====
"If we don't reach a deal by _______, we're going to cancel _____ games."
Day comes. Then it's
"Now, if we reach a deal by _________, we won't have to cancel games."
Day comes. Then, its something else.
BOB must be in charge. Or, maybe FC's doing some work for MLB. (Anyone know what he's up to these days?)
Just shut up. Negotiate. Then, tells us what you did, not what you're going to do, maybe. With fingers crossed behind your back.
Trying to make us think that you're working hard isn't convincing anybody.
Act like adults. Tell us when you're done.
It's hard for me to believe that people who earn the kind of money that they do go about their work this way.
No wonder people are angry.
Don't know if they are angry. Maybe apathetic would be a better word
Maybe. A few callers into MLBNR shows have some...raised voices/displeasure. This isn't just our standard CF. It' a DCF. Comes with the MLB territory.
=====
"If we don't reach a deal by _______, we're going to cancel _____ games."
Day comes. Then it's
"Now, if we reach a deal by _________, we won't have to cancel games."
Day comes. Then, its something else.
BOB must be in charge. Or, maybe FC's doing some work for MLB. (Anyone know what he's up to these days?)
Just shut up. Negotiate. Then, tells us what you did, not what you're going to do, maybe. With fingers crossed behind your back.
Trying to make us think that you're working hard isn't convincing anybody.
Act like adults. Tell us when you're done.
It's hard for me to believe that people who earn the kind of money that they do go about their work this way.
No wonder people are angry.
Don't know if they are angry. Maybe apathetic would be a better word
Maybe. A few callers into MLBNR shows have some...raised voices/displeasure. This isn't just our standard CF. It' a DCF. Comes with the MLB territory.