Official Game Thread - 8/25 - Bucs vs Cubs

[Doc]

Happ is a hometown kid. How did we miss him?

Three words: Neal Huntington.

[Doc]

Other than Keller’s magnificent outing, it’s worth mentioning that tonight’s game was won by the Pirates by pushing across two runs with productive outs in the first inning. Multiple HRs are certainly important but it’s possible to win games by playing smartly and taking advantage of opportunities when they arise.

[Ecbucs]

Gotta do a fact check on the Elroy Face interview and follow up comments by Block and Wehner (and Blass).

Face was not the first "closer." He was never used in the way that closers are used. I think Face may have meant "relief specialist." But his 1960-61 teammate Clem Labine was used as a relief specialist earlier than Face. They also said Face was the first reliever who was not previously a failed starter. But Face made 28 starts early in his career. In fact, Face said it was Danny Murtaugh who made Face a full time reliever when he took over in August 1957. But after 1955, Face had only 3 starts. Under Bobby Bregan in 1957, Face had made only 1 start and 37 relief appearances and in 1956 he led MLB with 65 relief appearances with only 3 starts. Then with Blass in the booth, Block again said Face was the first closer and Blass said, "he defined the role." But Face was never reserved for late inning save duty. He pitched whenever there was a jam, usually multiple innings and if he was gone before the 9th, someone else got a save.

just got in and haven't read through entire thread yet but was he talking about first for the Pirates? Other relievers had been successful in the past such as Jim Konstanty who was a star for the Whiz Kids of Philadelphia in 1950. 16 wins, 22 saves no starts.

[Bobster]

Gotta do a fact check on the Elroy Face interview and follow up comments by Block and Wehner (and Blass).

Face was not the first "closer." He was never used in the way that closers are used. I think Face may have meant "relief specialist." But his 1960-61 teammate Clem Labine was used as a relief specialist earlier than Face. They also said Face was the first reliever who was not previously a failed starter. But Face made 28 starts early in his career. In fact, Face said it was Danny Murtaugh who made Face a full time reliever when he took over in August 1957. But after 1955, Face had only 3 starts. Under Bobby Bregan in 1957, Face had made only 1 start and 37 relief appearances and in 1956 he led MLB with 65 relief appearances with only 3 starts. Then with Blass in the booth, Block again said Face was the first closer and Blass said, "he defined the role." But Face was never reserved for late inning save duty. He pitched whenever there was a jam, usually multiple innings and if he was gone before the 9th, someone else got a save.

just got in and haven't read through entire thread yet but was he talking about first for the Pirates? Other relievers had been successful in the past such as Jim Konstanty who was a star for the Whiz Kids of Philadelphia in 1950. 16 wins, 22 saves no starts.

No, he was talking about MLB in general.

Konstanty is another good example, although he made 19 starts in 1953.

Face was great. I think a case could be made for the MLB HOF. But he wasn't a "closer." That concept didn't begin until the late 1980s with Eckersley as a late inning specialist reserved for save opportunities. Face was much more valuable the way her was used--getting out of jams and pitching multiple innings even if someone else ended up with the save.

[Wildwoodcoach]

I wonder how Shelton would use him today?

[Wildwoodcoach]

That was a good move by Shelton putting Rivas in at First
and taking Joe out. That reversed call might not have gone
our way if Joe had been there

[Bobster]

That was a good move by Shelton putting Rivas in at First
and taking Joe out. That reversed call might not have gone
our way if Joe had been there

I'm glad they reversed it but I never saw irrefutable evidence that he was not safe.

[Surgnbuck]

That was a good move by Shelton putting Rivas in at First
and taking Joe out. That reversed call might not have gone
our way if Joe had been there

I'm with you, but I was thinking more about the next play, when Williams threw the short hop that Rivas handled cleanly, better than average chance Joe doesn't handle that throw cleanly.

[Surgnbuck]

That was a good move by Shelton putting Rivas in at First
and taking Joe out. That reversed call might not have gone
our way if Joe had been there

I'm with you, but I was thinking more about the next play, when Williams threw the short hop that Rivas handled cleanly, better than average chance Joe doesn't handle that throw cleanly.

He had 'em all the way!

[MaineBucs1]

Quick note regarding Keller.

Gerrit Cole has pitched 168 innings and has 181 strike-outs. Keller has thrown 163 innings and has 179 strike-outs. Two years ago, I never would have imagined that Keller would equal Cole's strike-out numbers.

Also, really nice pitching performance by Keller last night against a good hitting Cubs line-up.