537574637565160 wrote: Ventura was accused of headhunting in 2015. Was involved in a couple of brawls. Maybe he could be the new Dock Ellis
Or maybe the next Bob Gibson. He sure was not afraid to pitch way inside especially to guys who crowded the plate. And as for retaliation for one of his guys being HBP, Gibby didn't wait he drilled the pitcher or the best hitter whichever came to the plate first.
Yordano Ventura ????
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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BucsFaninGA
Yordano Ventura ????
Possum, you gotta mention Vernon Law, affectionally nicknamed, The Deacon!
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DemDog
Yordano Ventura ????
5B6C7A6A5F787770775E58190 wrote: Possum, you gotta mention Vernon Law, affectionally nicknamed, The Deacon!
Well yes the Deacon would throw up and in when necessary but Gibby was just plain mean and thought he owned the plate and that any hitter who came up and tried to take even a small part of it away from him got a buzz up under the chin. That man was sooooooooooo competitive. Only non Buc player I really liked to hate but also liked to like.
Well yes the Deacon would throw up and in when necessary but Gibby was just plain mean and thought he owned the plate and that any hitter who came up and tried to take even a small part of it away from him got a buzz up under the chin. That man was sooooooooooo competitive. Only non Buc player I really liked to hate but also liked to like.
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BucsFaninGA
Yordano Ventura ????
Yep, Gibson was a tough customer....His catcher, Tim McCarver ,said that Gibby would tell him to get back behind the plate, when McCarver would come out for a mound visit when things got heated....Gibson threw a last no-hitter at old Three Rivers in 1971as well?
Beat'em Bucs
Beat'em Bucs
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skinnyhorse
- Posts: 926
- Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:19 am
Yordano Ventura ????
576569697D4F6C65686D6265040 wrote: He would be a great addition for our rotation and probably a lot less cost. There are lots of possiblities out there just have to do the work to find them. Quite being lazy Huntington and find another starter that will put this team in the playoffs. I say don't get fixated on one particular players, find the best pitcher for the buck.
I'd trade Cutch for him if they would throw in a top prospect or two.
How do you know anybody's being lazy?
I think it would be great for the Pirates to have a guy like him for the same reason that I think the Royals will not part with him.
Never did anything last year to acquire a good starter to replace Burnett and Happ, that's why I think he's lazy. There are lots of good pitchers out there just got to do the work and find them for the right price.
I'd trade Cutch for him if they would throw in a top prospect or two.
How do you know anybody's being lazy?
I think it would be great for the Pirates to have a guy like him for the same reason that I think the Royals will not part with him.
Never did anything last year to acquire a good starter to replace Burnett and Happ, that's why I think he's lazy. There are lots of good pitchers out there just got to do the work and find them for the right price.
Yordano Ventura ????
I would not be opposed to acquiring Ventura at all. He has had two modestly decent to good years in KC; is young; has the talent to be a good three/four here. He just needs some Searage love.
Yordano Ventura ????
45587C7E70150 wrote: The Royals probably have one more year of competition left before they fall off the planet. They have no farm system since they packaged it all away to in a WS. Luckily for them, it worked.
A few thoughts here:
First, why do you consider it it, "luck," that Dayton Moore's plan worked? You don't make back to back World Series and win one of them due to luck. This means Dayton Moore had a plan and he executed it.
So far the Huntington/Nutting plan has been successful at breaking the losing streak and making the organization competitive again. That's a nice accomplishment, of course. But they haven't come close to making a World Series, much less winning one. The big success of their plan is the increase in profit for Bob Nutting.
Second, Moore didn't really trade away a boatload of prospects to win the World Series. Wil Myers was one big prospect they traded along with Odorizzi to get James Shields and Wade Davis. They gave up Sean Manaea to get Ben Zobrist and Brandon Finnegan and John Lamb (neither of which are significant prospects) for Johnny Cueto. Other than that, they didn't trade any significant prospects. In fact, one of the major contributing factors of Moore's rebuild was the opposite. He got Lorenzo Cain, Alcides Escobar, Jake Odorizzi and Jeremy Jeffress when he traded a veteran on an expiring contract (Greinke) a few years earlier.
So, he as able to trade a veteran that was leaving (Greinke) to get two big contributors to their Championship (Cain, Escobar) and another prospect (Odorizzi) that was packaged with Myers to acquire two other HUGE contributors in James Shields and Wade Davis.
I don't see any of this as luck. I see it as a well executed plan. And on another note, they STILL won more games than the Pirates in 2016.
A few thoughts here:
First, why do you consider it it, "luck," that Dayton Moore's plan worked? You don't make back to back World Series and win one of them due to luck. This means Dayton Moore had a plan and he executed it.
So far the Huntington/Nutting plan has been successful at breaking the losing streak and making the organization competitive again. That's a nice accomplishment, of course. But they haven't come close to making a World Series, much less winning one. The big success of their plan is the increase in profit for Bob Nutting.
Second, Moore didn't really trade away a boatload of prospects to win the World Series. Wil Myers was one big prospect they traded along with Odorizzi to get James Shields and Wade Davis. They gave up Sean Manaea to get Ben Zobrist and Brandon Finnegan and John Lamb (neither of which are significant prospects) for Johnny Cueto. Other than that, they didn't trade any significant prospects. In fact, one of the major contributing factors of Moore's rebuild was the opposite. He got Lorenzo Cain, Alcides Escobar, Jake Odorizzi and Jeremy Jeffress when he traded a veteran on an expiring contract (Greinke) a few years earlier.
So, he as able to trade a veteran that was leaving (Greinke) to get two big contributors to their Championship (Cain, Escobar) and another prospect (Odorizzi) that was packaged with Myers to acquire two other HUGE contributors in James Shields and Wade Davis.
I don't see any of this as luck. I see it as a well executed plan. And on another note, they STILL won more games than the Pirates in 2016.
Yordano Ventura ????
5A7A6974751B0 wrote: The Royals probably have one more year of competition left before they fall off the planet. They have no farm system since they packaged it all away to in a WS. Luckily for them, it worked.
A few thoughts here:
First, why do you consider it it, "luck," that Dayton Moore's plan worked? You don't make back to back World Series and win one of them due to luck. This means Dayton Moore had a plan and he executed it.
So far the Huntington/Nutting plan has been successful at breaking the losing streak and making the organization competitive again. That's a nice accomplishment, of course. But they haven't come close to making a World Series, much less winning one. The big success of their plan is the increase in profit for Bob Nutting.
Second, Moore didn't really trade away a boatload of prospects to win the World Series. Wil Myers was one big prospect they traded along with Odorizzi to get James Shields and Wade Davis. They gave up Sean Manaea to get Ben Zobrist and Brandon Finnegan and John Lamb (neither of which are significant prospects) for Johnny Cueto. Other than that, they didn't trade any significant prospects. In fact, one of the major contributing factors of Moore's rebuild was the opposite. He got Lorenzo Cain, Alcides Escobar, Jake Odorizzi and Jeremy Jeffress when he traded a veteran on an expiring contract (Greinke) a few years earlier.
So, he as able to trade a veteran that was leaving (Greinke) to get two big contributors to their Championship (Cain, Escobar) and another prospect (Odorizzi) that was packaged with Myers them to acquire two other HUGE contributors in James Shields and Wade Davis.
I don't see any of this as luck. I see it as a well executed plan. And on another note, they STILL won more games than the Pirates in 2016.
This is 100% correct. There was a plan in place and it was executed beautifully. People might call it luck that the KCR made it to the WS once. It's not luck making it back to back years and winning one. KC and Pittsburgh share many comparisons when it comes to baseball. Both, tradition laden franchises that struggled for quite a while. Both broke through, but only one managed to get to the World Series.
A few thoughts here:
First, why do you consider it it, "luck," that Dayton Moore's plan worked? You don't make back to back World Series and win one of them due to luck. This means Dayton Moore had a plan and he executed it.
So far the Huntington/Nutting plan has been successful at breaking the losing streak and making the organization competitive again. That's a nice accomplishment, of course. But they haven't come close to making a World Series, much less winning one. The big success of their plan is the increase in profit for Bob Nutting.
Second, Moore didn't really trade away a boatload of prospects to win the World Series. Wil Myers was one big prospect they traded along with Odorizzi to get James Shields and Wade Davis. They gave up Sean Manaea to get Ben Zobrist and Brandon Finnegan and John Lamb (neither of which are significant prospects) for Johnny Cueto. Other than that, they didn't trade any significant prospects. In fact, one of the major contributing factors of Moore's rebuild was the opposite. He got Lorenzo Cain, Alcides Escobar, Jake Odorizzi and Jeremy Jeffress when he traded a veteran on an expiring contract (Greinke) a few years earlier.
So, he as able to trade a veteran that was leaving (Greinke) to get two big contributors to their Championship (Cain, Escobar) and another prospect (Odorizzi) that was packaged with Myers them to acquire two other HUGE contributors in James Shields and Wade Davis.
I don't see any of this as luck. I see it as a well executed plan. And on another note, they STILL won more games than the Pirates in 2016.
This is 100% correct. There was a plan in place and it was executed beautifully. People might call it luck that the KCR made it to the WS once. It's not luck making it back to back years and winning one. KC and Pittsburgh share many comparisons when it comes to baseball. Both, tradition laden franchises that struggled for quite a while. Both broke through, but only one managed to get to the World Series.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Yordano Ventura ????
They pretty much had the same plan. It worked for the Royals and not the Pirates.
The Royals made it to the World Series as a wild card team in 2014. They then made it again in 2015 as a division winner.
In 2014, the Royals had one more win over the Pirates in the regular season. In 2015, the Pirates had three more regular season wins.
I wouldn't use the term "luck" but things fell into place for the Royals. They improved every year from 2013-2015. They played great baseball in the playoffs. The Pirates still won more games from 2013-2016 than the Royals.
Both teams had good plans in place. The Pirates got beat. The Royals did not. I understand the results, but the plans were very similar. I wouldn't fault either plan from those years.
The Royals made it to the World Series as a wild card team in 2014. They then made it again in 2015 as a division winner.
In 2014, the Royals had one more win over the Pirates in the regular season. In 2015, the Pirates had three more regular season wins.
I wouldn't use the term "luck" but things fell into place for the Royals. They improved every year from 2013-2015. They played great baseball in the playoffs. The Pirates still won more games from 2013-2016 than the Royals.
Both teams had good plans in place. The Pirates got beat. The Royals did not. I understand the results, but the plans were very similar. I wouldn't fault either plan from those years.
Yordano Ventura ????
2328202C2928337670073E262F2828692428470 wrote: They pretty much had the same plan. It worked for the Royals and not the Pirates.
The Royals made it to the World Series as a wild card team in 2014. They then made it again in 2015 as a division winner.
In 2014, the Royals had one more win over the Pirates in the regular season. In 2015, the Pirates had three more regular season wins.
I wouldn't use the term "luck" but things fell into place for the Royals. They improved every year from 2013-2015. They played great baseball in the playoffs. The Pirates still won more games from 2013-2016 than the Royals.
Both teams had good plans in place. The Pirates got beat. The Royals did not. I understand the results, but the plans were very similar. I wouldn't fault either plan from those years.
It's not a matter of "faulting" either plan.
But if you don't see the results of the Royals rebuild as FAR SUPERIOR to the results of the Pirates rebuild, then I'd say in your mind you've changed what defines success in baseball.
The goal is to win the World Series. The Royals made two and won one. The Pirates haven't come close to either.
If you're satisfied with that, I'm envious of you. I wish my expectations could be that low. Following the Pirates would be much more enjoyable like that.
The Royals made it to the World Series as a wild card team in 2014. They then made it again in 2015 as a division winner.
In 2014, the Royals had one more win over the Pirates in the regular season. In 2015, the Pirates had three more regular season wins.
I wouldn't use the term "luck" but things fell into place for the Royals. They improved every year from 2013-2015. They played great baseball in the playoffs. The Pirates still won more games from 2013-2016 than the Royals.
Both teams had good plans in place. The Pirates got beat. The Royals did not. I understand the results, but the plans were very similar. I wouldn't fault either plan from those years.
It's not a matter of "faulting" either plan.
But if you don't see the results of the Royals rebuild as FAR SUPERIOR to the results of the Pirates rebuild, then I'd say in your mind you've changed what defines success in baseball.
The goal is to win the World Series. The Royals made two and won one. The Pirates haven't come close to either.
If you're satisfied with that, I'm envious of you. I wish my expectations could be that low. Following the Pirates would be much more enjoyable like that.