Here are some OPS rankings per position in the NL.
Harrison - Last
Cervelli - 2nd to last (hard to see, didn't qualify)
Jaso - 3rd to last (only Mets and Was had worst 1B)
Freese - 8th
Mercer - 7th
McCutchen - 6th
Polanco - 4th
Marte - 3rd
Some didn't qualify, so I took a quick look (Cevelli, Jaso). Rodriguez was higher than Jaso at 1B, but like 100 less at bats. Freese was listed as a 3B.
I didn't realize how bad Harrison was compared to other second basemen. Cervelli has been bad all year too. I did think Mercer would be a little higher.
Overall, three top guys (outfield), two middle of the pack, three at the bottom.
OPS Rankings
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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Bobster21
OPS Rankings
5E555D5154554E0B0D7A435B5255551459553A0 wrote: Here are some OPS rankings per position in the NL.
Harrison - Last
Cervelli - 2nd to last (hard to see, didn't qualify)
Jaso - 3rd to last (only Mets and Was had worst 1B)
Freese - 8th
Mercer - 7th
McCutchen - 6th
Polanco - 4th
Marte - 3rd
Some didn't qualify, so I took a quick look (Cevelli, Jaso). Rodriguez was higher than Jaso at 1B, but like 100 less at bats. Freese was listed as a 3B.
I didn't realize how bad Harrison was compared to other second basemen. Cervelli has been bad all year too. I did think Mercer would be a little higher.
Overall, three top guys (outfield), two middle of the pack, three at the bottom.
Not really surprising. OPS is the sum of SLG and OBP. Since max OBP is 1.000 and max SLG is 4.000, OPS is comprised 80% of SLG. The Pirates have little power so their OPS is not going to be good. Harrison has a mediocre BA and few walks so his OBP is low in addition to his low SLG. Cervelli actually is #1 in NL catchers in OBP. But since he has no HRs, his SLG is the worst. Since OPS is based primarily on SLG while OBP comprises only 20% of that stat, his OPS is low.
I've never liked the OPS stat because it is essentially mirrors SLG. If SLG is good, OPS is good. If OBP is good, OPS is still not good unless SLG is also good.
Harrison - Last
Cervelli - 2nd to last (hard to see, didn't qualify)
Jaso - 3rd to last (only Mets and Was had worst 1B)
Freese - 8th
Mercer - 7th
McCutchen - 6th
Polanco - 4th
Marte - 3rd
Some didn't qualify, so I took a quick look (Cevelli, Jaso). Rodriguez was higher than Jaso at 1B, but like 100 less at bats. Freese was listed as a 3B.
I didn't realize how bad Harrison was compared to other second basemen. Cervelli has been bad all year too. I did think Mercer would be a little higher.
Overall, three top guys (outfield), two middle of the pack, three at the bottom.
Not really surprising. OPS is the sum of SLG and OBP. Since max OBP is 1.000 and max SLG is 4.000, OPS is comprised 80% of SLG. The Pirates have little power so their OPS is not going to be good. Harrison has a mediocre BA and few walks so his OBP is low in addition to his low SLG. Cervelli actually is #1 in NL catchers in OBP. But since he has no HRs, his SLG is the worst. Since OPS is based primarily on SLG while OBP comprises only 20% of that stat, his OPS is low.
I've never liked the OPS stat because it is essentially mirrors SLG. If SLG is good, OPS is good. If OBP is good, OPS is still not good unless SLG is also good.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
OPS Rankings
I didn't know it was weighted that way. I think many think OPS is the best overall stat. An OPS under .800 is not always good or at least in the trouble area. Stat guys always bring up OPS.
Harrison is last in OBP and SLG. Not good. Big drop off at 2B this year. Walker, in 2015, was in the top three last year among second basemen.
Harrison is last in OBP and SLG. Not good. Big drop off at 2B this year. Walker, in 2015, was in the top three last year among second basemen.
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Bobster21
OPS Rankings
454E464A4F4E551016615840494E4E0F424E210 wrote: I didn't know it was weighted that way. I think many think OPS is the best overall stat. An OPS under .800 is not always good or at least in the trouble area. Stat guys always bring up OPS.
Harrison is last in OBP and SLG. Not good. Big drop off at 2B this year. Walker, in 2015, was in the top three last year among second basemen.
Yes, people love OPS and quote it all the time. They think it's just a combination of the 2 other stats without realizing that those 2 stats are computed on entirely different math scales. It's like trying to fill a basket with apples and grapes. You'll only look good if you have a lot of apples.
Harrison is last in OBP and SLG. Not good. Big drop off at 2B this year. Walker, in 2015, was in the top three last year among second basemen.
Yes, people love OPS and quote it all the time. They think it's just a combination of the 2 other stats without realizing that those 2 stats are computed on entirely different math scales. It's like trying to fill a basket with apples and grapes. You'll only look good if you have a lot of apples.
OPS Rankings
4D606D7C7B6A7D3D3E0F0 wrote: I didn't know it was weighted that way. I think many think OPS is the best overall stat. An OPS under .800 is not always good or at least in the trouble area. Stat guys always bring up OPS.
Harrison is last in OBP and SLG. Not good. Big drop off at 2B this year. Walker, in 2015, was in the top three last year among second basemen.
Yes, people love OPS and quote it all the time. They think it's just a combination of the 2 other stats without realizing that those 2 stats are computed on entirely different math scales. It's like trying to fill a basket with apples and grapes. You'll only look good if you have a lot of apples.
It is a handy/dandy stat that I use. However, as Bobster points out it can be misleading. I think somebody who has an OBA average of 400 and slugging of 300 is more valuable than someone that does the reverse.
Harrison is last in OBP and SLG. Not good. Big drop off at 2B this year. Walker, in 2015, was in the top three last year among second basemen.
Yes, people love OPS and quote it all the time. They think it's just a combination of the 2 other stats without realizing that those 2 stats are computed on entirely different math scales. It's like trying to fill a basket with apples and grapes. You'll only look good if you have a lot of apples.
It is a handy/dandy stat that I use. However, as Bobster points out it can be misleading. I think somebody who has an OBA average of 400 and slugging of 300 is more valuable than someone that does the reverse.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
OPS Rankings
I put players in two categories:
They either get on base and score runs or they hit home runs and knock in runs.
If you aren't doing one of those, you are not needed. I do like the OPS stat. Overall, I think it gives a good sense of the player and how good they are playing.
They either get on base and score runs or they hit home runs and knock in runs.
If you aren't doing one of those, you are not needed. I do like the OPS stat. Overall, I think it gives a good sense of the player and how good they are playing.
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Bobster21
OPS Rankings
212A222E2B2A317472053C242D2A2A6B262A450 wrote: I put players in two categories:
They either get on base and score runs or they hit home runs and knock in runs.
If you aren't doing one of those, you are not needed. I do like the OPS stat. Overall, I think it gives a good sense of the player and how good they are playing.
I think you get a much better sense of how well a player is doing by looking at OBP and SLG separately. For example, Cervelli has the worst OPS of all starters on the team. So someone might look at that and conclude he's their least valuable hitter. However, looking at OBP and SLG separately, you see that while he is clearly the worst for SLG, he leads ALL Pirate starters in OBP. So if you put players in categories of getting on base and hitting home runs, he's #1 in one of those categories. But just using OPS, he looks like the worst hitter on the team overall. A very misleading stat IMHO.
They either get on base and score runs or they hit home runs and knock in runs.
If you aren't doing one of those, you are not needed. I do like the OPS stat. Overall, I think it gives a good sense of the player and how good they are playing.
I think you get a much better sense of how well a player is doing by looking at OBP and SLG separately. For example, Cervelli has the worst OPS of all starters on the team. So someone might look at that and conclude he's their least valuable hitter. However, looking at OBP and SLG separately, you see that while he is clearly the worst for SLG, he leads ALL Pirate starters in OBP. So if you put players in categories of getting on base and hitting home runs, he's #1 in one of those categories. But just using OPS, he looks like the worst hitter on the team overall. A very misleading stat IMHO.
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Wrathchild
- Posts: 152
- Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:23 pm
OPS Rankings
OPS is a useful tool with the understanding that it improperly weights the component parts as stated above. OPS+ is much more useful as it more appropriately weights OBP in addition to normalizing for ballpark. For instance, Harrison has a two point advantage over Cervelli in OPS. OPS, therefore, says the two players are equal offensively. Cervelli's OPS+ is 87 and Harrison's is 83 because cervelli is much better in OBP which is the statistically more important component part.
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ArnoldRothstein
OPS Rankings
4C616C7D7A6B7C3C3F0E0 wrote:
Not really surprising. OPS is the sum of SLG and OBP. Since max OBP is 1.000 and max SLG is 4.000, OPS is comprised 80% of SLG.
This is poorly phrased. Yes, if some theoretical machine hit a home run every plate appearance, it would have an OPS of 5.00 with 4.00 of that weighted in slugging. But, if you throw out Bonds's steroid-era numbers, the highest seasonal OBPs ever are around .550 and the highest slugging around .850. So at the real world extremes the ratio is about 1.5 to 1. League wide, your OBP is .322 right now and slugging is .411, so the typical OPS is actually something like 1.25 slugging to 1.00 OBP.
Not really surprising. OPS is the sum of SLG and OBP. Since max OBP is 1.000 and max SLG is 4.000, OPS is comprised 80% of SLG.
This is poorly phrased. Yes, if some theoretical machine hit a home run every plate appearance, it would have an OPS of 5.00 with 4.00 of that weighted in slugging. But, if you throw out Bonds's steroid-era numbers, the highest seasonal OBPs ever are around .550 and the highest slugging around .850. So at the real world extremes the ratio is about 1.5 to 1. League wide, your OBP is .322 right now and slugging is .411, so the typical OPS is actually something like 1.25 slugging to 1.00 OBP.
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rucker59@gmail.com
OPS Rankings
193439282F3E29696A5B0 wrote: I put players in two categories:
They either get on base and score runs or they hit home runs and knock in runs.
If you aren't doing one of those, you are not needed. I do like the OPS stat. Overall, I think it gives a good sense of the player and how good they are playing.
I think you get a much better sense of how well a player is doing by looking at OBP and SLG separately. For example, Cervelli has the worst OPS of all starters on the team. So someone might look at that and conclude he's their least valuable hitter. However, looking at OBP and SLG separately, you see that while he is clearly the worst for SLG, he leads ALL Pirate starters in OBP. So if you put players in categories of getting on base and hitting home runs, he's #1 in one of those categories. But just using OPS, he looks like the worst hitter on the team overall. A very misleading stat IMHO.
WOW, great discussion as I never understood the imbalance the that existed between the OBP and SLG. I will be more selective in using OPS in the future.
It's interesting to look at team OPS
The Pirates are 7th in the NL at .729 (the Cards and Cubs are ## 2 and 3 at .774 and .776).
Team ERA the Pirates are 8th in the NL with a 4.13 (Cubs #1 at 3.07, St Louis #7 at 4.03)
#7 and #8 in a 15 team league - sounds like a .500 team.
They either get on base and score runs or they hit home runs and knock in runs.
If you aren't doing one of those, you are not needed. I do like the OPS stat. Overall, I think it gives a good sense of the player and how good they are playing.
I think you get a much better sense of how well a player is doing by looking at OBP and SLG separately. For example, Cervelli has the worst OPS of all starters on the team. So someone might look at that and conclude he's their least valuable hitter. However, looking at OBP and SLG separately, you see that while he is clearly the worst for SLG, he leads ALL Pirate starters in OBP. So if you put players in categories of getting on base and hitting home runs, he's #1 in one of those categories. But just using OPS, he looks like the worst hitter on the team overall. A very misleading stat IMHO.
WOW, great discussion as I never understood the imbalance the that existed between the OBP and SLG. I will be more selective in using OPS in the future.
It's interesting to look at team OPS
The Pirates are 7th in the NL at .729 (the Cards and Cubs are ## 2 and 3 at .774 and .776).
Team ERA the Pirates are 8th in the NL with a 4.13 (Cubs #1 at 3.07, St Louis #7 at 4.03)
#7 and #8 in a 15 team league - sounds like a .500 team.