I can't figure out where this is headed.
I'd be okay with the low payroll if we'd just traded away a ton of high-priced vets in exchange for a boatload of AA talent. Then it would just be a matter of biding our time until 2022 or so.
What we have instead is a weak major-league lineup and an empty farm system.
I think most of us hated the Huntington approach of "try to stay competitive every year" and then hope you squeak into the playoffs and maybe get hot. But at least that gave you the chance to delude yourself through maybe July or August.
The current approach seems to be ... ????
Help me out here.
So what exactly is the plan?
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3631
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
So what exactly is the plan?
49454C41560A504D494B504C5D1614644349240 wrote: I can't figure out where this is headed.
I'd be okay with the low payroll if we'd just traded away a ton of high-priced vets in exchange for a boatload of AA talent. Then it would just be a matter of biding our time until 2022 or so.
What we have instead is a weak major-league lineup and an empty farm system.
I think most of us hated the Huntington approach of "try to stay competitive every year" and then hope you squeak into the playoffs and maybe get hot. But at least that gave you the chance to delude yourself through maybe July or August.
The current approach seems to be ... ????
Help me out here.
My guess? They don't trust the conclusions of the previous administration and are doing an evaluation period.
I'd be okay with the low payroll if we'd just traded away a ton of high-priced vets in exchange for a boatload of AA talent. Then it would just be a matter of biding our time until 2022 or so.
What we have instead is a weak major-league lineup and an empty farm system.
I think most of us hated the Huntington approach of "try to stay competitive every year" and then hope you squeak into the playoffs and maybe get hot. But at least that gave you the chance to delude yourself through maybe July or August.
The current approach seems to be ... ????
Help me out here.
My guess? They don't trust the conclusions of the previous administration and are doing an evaluation period.
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Bobster21
So what exactly is the plan?
477579796D5F7C75787D7275140 wrote: I can't figure out where this is headed.
I'd be okay with the low payroll if we'd just traded away a ton of high-priced vets in exchange for a boatload of AA talent. Then it would just be a matter of biding our time until 2022 or so.
What we have instead is a weak major-league lineup and an empty farm system.
I think most of us hated the Huntington approach of "try to stay competitive every year" and then hope you squeak into the playoffs and maybe get hot. But at least that gave you the chance to delude yourself through maybe July or August.
The current approach seems to be ... ????
Help me out here.
My guess? They don't trust the conclusions of the previous administration and are doing an evaluation period.
Totally agree, Sammy.
I'd be okay with the low payroll if we'd just traded away a ton of high-priced vets in exchange for a boatload of AA talent. Then it would just be a matter of biding our time until 2022 or so.
What we have instead is a weak major-league lineup and an empty farm system.
I think most of us hated the Huntington approach of "try to stay competitive every year" and then hope you squeak into the playoffs and maybe get hot. But at least that gave you the chance to delude yourself through maybe July or August.
The current approach seems to be ... ????
Help me out here.
My guess? They don't trust the conclusions of the previous administration and are doing an evaluation period.
Totally agree, Sammy.
So what exactly is the plan?
614C41505746511112230 wrote: I can't figure out where this is headed.
I'd be okay with the low payroll if we'd just traded away a ton of high-priced vets in exchange for a boatload of AA talent. Then it would just be a matter of biding our time until 2022 or so.
What we have instead is a weak major-league lineup and an empty farm system.
I think most of us hated the Huntington approach of "try to stay competitive every year" and then hope you squeak into the playoffs and maybe get hot. But at least that gave you the chance to delude yourself through maybe July or August.
The current approach seems to be ... ????
Help me out here.
My guess? They don't trust the conclusions of the previous administration and are doing an evaluation period.
Totally agree, Sammy.
Yep, and would you trust the conclusions of the last administration?
I also think that they are trying to rehab the value of a number of the MLB players. BC has said that the biggest improvement they think they can get is by making the players already on their roster better. I think this team had a lot of underachievers last year. I'm anxious to see how a couple of them do with new coaching.
I'd be okay with the low payroll if we'd just traded away a ton of high-priced vets in exchange for a boatload of AA talent. Then it would just be a matter of biding our time until 2022 or so.
What we have instead is a weak major-league lineup and an empty farm system.
I think most of us hated the Huntington approach of "try to stay competitive every year" and then hope you squeak into the playoffs and maybe get hot. But at least that gave you the chance to delude yourself through maybe July or August.
The current approach seems to be ... ????
Help me out here.
My guess? They don't trust the conclusions of the previous administration and are doing an evaluation period.
Totally agree, Sammy.
Yep, and would you trust the conclusions of the last administration?
I also think that they are trying to rehab the value of a number of the MLB players. BC has said that the biggest improvement they think they can get is by making the players already on their roster better. I think this team had a lot of underachievers last year. I'm anxious to see how a couple of them do with new coaching.
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maher.timothy20@gm
So what exactly is the plan?
The previous regime may have had some questionable judgments but there's also the results on the field to consider.
We had a last place team and subtracted the lights out closer and the most talented player in exchange for nothing, more or less.
I guess the starters could all get better but who else? Reynolds? Newman? If anything they'll take a step back. Moran? I doubt it. Stallings? He's probably as good as he'll ever be.
I usually start every year thinking we'll surprise everybody and win the division. This year I'll be shocked if we don't finish in last place. And I don't see the cavalry coming to save us from the minors, either.
We had a last place team and subtracted the lights out closer and the most talented player in exchange for nothing, more or less.
I guess the starters could all get better but who else? Reynolds? Newman? If anything they'll take a step back. Moran? I doubt it. Stallings? He's probably as good as he'll ever be.
I usually start every year thinking we'll surprise everybody and win the division. This year I'll be shocked if we don't finish in last place. And I don't see the cavalry coming to save us from the minors, either.
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johnfluharty
So what exactly is the plan?
The whole player evaluation thing I think is about curing the disconnect between the players and coaches, especially with respect to modern analytical techniques. We know the last group had trouble with helping prospects make the jump from AAA to the majors. It stands to reason that they were not getting the most out iof the guys already there, especially the guys with limited major league experience.
So what exactly is the plan?
I think the whole plan is to avoid spending any money and kick the can down the road to a future that never arrives in Pittsburgh.
So what exactly is the plan?
I’m going to try to answer this honestly. I’ve been saying all year that we’re in worse shape than your average expansion team, and I absolutely mean that. No difference makers at the MLB level, none in the minors either. Lots of nice players (Bell, Newman, Reynolds, Williams, Musgrove, Hayes, Cruz, Keller), but nobody you think, “Yeah, that guy can go win us a pennant (ala McCutchen circa 2013-15).” So, I think they are playing for four or five years from now, at best.
That means hoping that Keller, Newman, Reynolds, Hayes, Priester develop. That means trading Marte (and eventually Bell, hopefully Williams, Musgrove, Kela, Archer, Dyson too) for higher upside talents that are four and five years away. That means tanking this season and drafting Kumar Rocker #1 overall in 2021.
They’re punting this year and next. We need to accept that reality. We just need to TTP...trust the process. The worst thing they can do is win 75. Trust BC. He’s a good hire. But it’s gonna be awhile.
That means hoping that Keller, Newman, Reynolds, Hayes, Priester develop. That means trading Marte (and eventually Bell, hopefully Williams, Musgrove, Kela, Archer, Dyson too) for higher upside talents that are four and five years away. That means tanking this season and drafting Kumar Rocker #1 overall in 2021.
They’re punting this year and next. We need to accept that reality. We just need to TTP...trust the process. The worst thing they can do is win 75. Trust BC. He’s a good hire. But it’s gonna be awhile.
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ArnoldRothstein
So what exactly is the plan?
474F4C7B6D486F600E0 wrote: That means tanking this season and drafting Kumar Rocker #1 overall in 2021.
This is problematic now, because you have four teams that lost 103 to 114 games last year. It's like you have to plan to lose 120 to tank now.
I think that the real tell for this team is in budgeting. At some point, they have to sign a free agent for something more than the 3/35 they gave Liriano years ago. That's probably years away, and until then every cheap move they make will be presented as a sharp cost-saving, with the money saved to be moved to more cost-effective pursuits.
This is problematic now, because you have four teams that lost 103 to 114 games last year. It's like you have to plan to lose 120 to tank now.
I think that the real tell for this team is in budgeting. At some point, they have to sign a free agent for something more than the 3/35 they gave Liriano years ago. That's probably years away, and until then every cheap move they make will be presented as a sharp cost-saving, with the money saved to be moved to more cost-effective pursuits.
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Bobster21
So what exactly is the plan?
565E5D6A7C597E711F0 wrote: I’m going to try to answer this honestly. I’ve been saying all year that we’re in worse shape than your average expansion team, and I absolutely mean that. No difference makers at the MLB level, none in the minors either. Lots of nice players (Bell, Newman, Reynolds, Williams, Musgrove, Hayes, Cruz, Keller), but nobody you think, “Yeah, that guy can go win us a pennant (ala McCutchen circa 2013-15).” So, I think they are playing for four or five years from now, at best.
That means hoping that Keller, Newman, Reynolds, Hayes, Priester develop. That means trading Marte (and eventually Bell, hopefully Williams, Musgrove, Kela, Archer, Dyson too) for higher upside talents that are four and five years away. That means tanking this season and drafting Kumar Rocker #1 overall in 2021.
They’re punting this year and next. We need to accept that reality. We just need to TTP...trust the process. The worst thing they can do is win 75. Trust BC. He’s a good hire. But it’s gonna be awhile.
What always sinks the Pirates is Nutting's cheapness. Like any organization, the Pirates are able to come up with a number of nice players. The difference is that other teams will use that as a base and then obtain a few impact players that put the team over the top. That involves signing impact FAs and/or trading for highly productive players who come with large contracts. For the Pirates, those "nice" players are as good as it will get because no one else of significance will be added since doing so takes Nutting out of his payroll comfort zone of the bottom 5. So we are always limited to watching a few decent players who would fit nicely on good teams without having to be the difference maker they need to be for the Pirates and knowing that the addition of a few key players will never happen.
That means hoping that Keller, Newman, Reynolds, Hayes, Priester develop. That means trading Marte (and eventually Bell, hopefully Williams, Musgrove, Kela, Archer, Dyson too) for higher upside talents that are four and five years away. That means tanking this season and drafting Kumar Rocker #1 overall in 2021.
They’re punting this year and next. We need to accept that reality. We just need to TTP...trust the process. The worst thing they can do is win 75. Trust BC. He’s a good hire. But it’s gonna be awhile.
What always sinks the Pirates is Nutting's cheapness. Like any organization, the Pirates are able to come up with a number of nice players. The difference is that other teams will use that as a base and then obtain a few impact players that put the team over the top. That involves signing impact FAs and/or trading for highly productive players who come with large contracts. For the Pirates, those "nice" players are as good as it will get because no one else of significance will be added since doing so takes Nutting out of his payroll comfort zone of the bottom 5. So we are always limited to watching a few decent players who would fit nicely on good teams without having to be the difference maker they need to be for the Pirates and knowing that the addition of a few key players will never happen.