39303829275D0 wrote: Wow, this guy is just DESTROYING the baseball. Keep it going man.
surely there can be no excuses for not bringing back an army of talent right? Surely. and I will not stop calling you Shirley.
Yep if Cutch keeps hitting like he is, Marte returns and they still trade him that will absolutely tell us that Nutting is just plain cheap. Assuming we get Kang back next year this lineup would be fantastic. Taillon looks like a legit high end #2, Nova is pitching well, Williams is doing well, Cole is well Cole you get 4-5 good starts and 4-5 bad starts. I would like to see what we have in Brault. In short keep Cutch until at least the deadline next season and see what this team can do with everyone together. Unfortunately they won't do that. At best they will ride him to 75 wins this season and then trade him over the winter. It makes me sick to my stomach.
McCutchen's drop off
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
McCutchen's drop off
7259555C5958020F360 wrote: We must get a haul from trading Cutch. We need to find a Giles /Bay type.
What a shame that is the mentality of Pirates fans. We have a superstar that has been the face of this franchise, a homegrown MVP and all we can think about is what we will get in a trade.
I think Cutch has been a fine player for us. But he has just had about 2 good months of play in the last season and a half.
Thankfully 1 of those months was this past june. We need to cash in on that. Do you really think Cutch is a $20 mil type of player now. I don`t . I dont`get to attached to players anymore. When Bonds left that killed me.Since then, I`m always on the look out for young guys that we can get a solid 5 years from and then let them go.
We'd be foolish if we didn't take this opportunity to test the waters. See if he can't pull in some top prospects, giving us 6+ ML seasons EACH, for 1.5 seasons of Cutch. We'd be brass-plated morons if we signed him now. He was bad FOR A YEAR AND A HALF, and he's had what? 6 good weeks? Cutch isn't the Cutch of 2 years ago, and even if we sign him, we aren't going to ever see that Cutch again. We'll be paying him MORE for the player he was, while he declines and does less. Even if you think his bat is back, his knees are not getting younger.
We NEED to repopulate the farm system, because as things are, the Pirates cannot or will not buy their way to a championship. Hell, the couple of years when ONE GOOD PLAYER could have pushed us into the playoffs, they did not do it. We play the hand we're dealt, not the hand we wish we had. Cutch could buy us 12+ years of ML players, maybe even 18+ years of ML players. If the FO does their job, there will be all-stars in the trade.
This team is going nowhere this year, so we'd only be giving up, possibly, one year where a good performance from Cutch can help the team. Weigh that against what a good trade could bring back in return for that one year, and it's a no-brainer. Keeping Cutch is not going to put us into the playoffs. A good haul in a trade could put us in contention for the playoffs for years.
I don't trust Neal H. in making a big trade.
The players on the 25 man roster that he originally trade for are:
Cervelli
Nova
Bastardo
Williams
Harrison
LeBlanc
Rivero
Jaso, Freese, Hudson, Nicasio were free agents.
Well, then, why trust him to pick for the draft? Or find Latin American players? Or sign free agents?
I am at the stage that I don't trust him to do anything but can see why others do. But if decision is made to blow up team then I think the decision should also be made to replace management.
What a shame that is the mentality of Pirates fans. We have a superstar that has been the face of this franchise, a homegrown MVP and all we can think about is what we will get in a trade.
I think Cutch has been a fine player for us. But he has just had about 2 good months of play in the last season and a half.
Thankfully 1 of those months was this past june. We need to cash in on that. Do you really think Cutch is a $20 mil type of player now. I don`t . I dont`get to attached to players anymore. When Bonds left that killed me.Since then, I`m always on the look out for young guys that we can get a solid 5 years from and then let them go.
We'd be foolish if we didn't take this opportunity to test the waters. See if he can't pull in some top prospects, giving us 6+ ML seasons EACH, for 1.5 seasons of Cutch. We'd be brass-plated morons if we signed him now. He was bad FOR A YEAR AND A HALF, and he's had what? 6 good weeks? Cutch isn't the Cutch of 2 years ago, and even if we sign him, we aren't going to ever see that Cutch again. We'll be paying him MORE for the player he was, while he declines and does less. Even if you think his bat is back, his knees are not getting younger.
We NEED to repopulate the farm system, because as things are, the Pirates cannot or will not buy their way to a championship. Hell, the couple of years when ONE GOOD PLAYER could have pushed us into the playoffs, they did not do it. We play the hand we're dealt, not the hand we wish we had. Cutch could buy us 12+ years of ML players, maybe even 18+ years of ML players. If the FO does their job, there will be all-stars in the trade.
This team is going nowhere this year, so we'd only be giving up, possibly, one year where a good performance from Cutch can help the team. Weigh that against what a good trade could bring back in return for that one year, and it's a no-brainer. Keeping Cutch is not going to put us into the playoffs. A good haul in a trade could put us in contention for the playoffs for years.
I don't trust Neal H. in making a big trade.
The players on the 25 man roster that he originally trade for are:
Cervelli
Nova
Bastardo
Williams
Harrison
LeBlanc
Rivero
Jaso, Freese, Hudson, Nicasio were free agents.
Well, then, why trust him to pick for the draft? Or find Latin American players? Or sign free agents?
I am at the stage that I don't trust him to do anything but can see why others do. But if decision is made to blow up team then I think the decision should also be made to replace management.
-
JollyRoger
- Posts: 1469
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:31 pm
McCutchen's drop off
My vote is to keep Cutch and trade Cole. According to most of the experts; Cutch would only bring back one maybe two prospects that are rated in the top 50-100. I too do not trust NH in making a trade for Cutch. He would be more interested removing the 14 Million from the books. Cutch has proven to me that he is back in the zone. He is the face of the franchise and that should not be dismissed lightly. Resign the man!
As for Cole; we could get two prospects rated in the top 50. The Pirates have some starting pitching depth. We do not have anyone to replace Cutch's offense.
As for Cole; we could get two prospects rated in the top 50. The Pirates have some starting pitching depth. We do not have anyone to replace Cutch's offense.
McCutchen's drop off
6C494A4A5F7449414354260 wrote: My vote is to keep Cutch and trade Cole. According to most of the experts; Cutch would only bring back one maybe two prospects that are rated in the top 50-100. I too do not trust NH in making a trade for Cutch. He would be more interested removing the 14 Million from the books. Cutch has proven to me that he is back in the zone. He is the face of the franchise and that should not be dismissed lightly. Resign the man!
As for Cole; we could get two prospects rated in the top 50. The Pirates have some starting pitching depth. We do not have anyone to replace Cutch's offense.
Yep that's what I would do. Someone will pay for Cole's potential and years of control.
As for Cole; we could get two prospects rated in the top 50. The Pirates have some starting pitching depth. We do not have anyone to replace Cutch's offense.
Yep that's what I would do. Someone will pay for Cole's potential and years of control.
McCutchen's drop off
5C5D4657410106320 wrote: Wow, this guy is just DESTROYING the baseball. Keep it going man.
surely there can be no excuses for not bringing back an army of talent right? Surely. and I will not stop calling you Shirley.
Yep if Cutch keeps hitting like he is, Marte returns and they still trade him that will absolutely tell us that Nutting is just plain cheap. Assuming we get Kang back next year this lineup would be fantastic. Taillon looks like a legit high end #2, Nova is pitching well, Williams is doing well, Cole is well Cole you get 4-5 good starts and 4-5 bad starts. I would like to see what we have in Brault. In short keep Cutch until at least the deadline next season and see what this team can do with everyone together. Unfortunately they won't do that. At best they will ride him to 75 wins this season and then trade him over the winter. It makes me sick to my stomach.
We're trading him. I think we should trade him for sure. I'm just trying to get in front of the FO excuse train of reasons why he's not worth much and it's OK that we missed again.
Almost everytime NH has traded a ML piece with real value he's bombed it. It's only been a few times overall, but he's batting about .250 Melancon for Rivero was a great trade and Hanrahan /Holt for a plethora of junk and underperforming Melancon was ok. Those are the two that aren't complete zeros. Bay was a disaster. Neil Walker was as disaster.
At some point, you are SUPPOSED to get value in return for value though, so I don't go bending over backward praising a move like Hanrahan and Brock Holt to the Red Sox because Melancon worked out. Brock Holt worked out for them too, and while Hanrahan didn't Melancon was a disaster for them, so what were they losing value-wise?
So it's not like NH fetched someone performing at a high level for Hanrahan and Holt. He fetched a plethora of scrubs with possible upside and one of them hit (Melancon)
With Rivero, he did pick up an already very talented and performing pen pitcher (and another arm in addition) for one of the best closers in baseball. That's talent for talent.
The Hanrahan trade was some talent for a whole bunch of junk that might work out
surely there can be no excuses for not bringing back an army of talent right? Surely. and I will not stop calling you Shirley.
Yep if Cutch keeps hitting like he is, Marte returns and they still trade him that will absolutely tell us that Nutting is just plain cheap. Assuming we get Kang back next year this lineup would be fantastic. Taillon looks like a legit high end #2, Nova is pitching well, Williams is doing well, Cole is well Cole you get 4-5 good starts and 4-5 bad starts. I would like to see what we have in Brault. In short keep Cutch until at least the deadline next season and see what this team can do with everyone together. Unfortunately they won't do that. At best they will ride him to 75 wins this season and then trade him over the winter. It makes me sick to my stomach.
We're trading him. I think we should trade him for sure. I'm just trying to get in front of the FO excuse train of reasons why he's not worth much and it's OK that we missed again.
Almost everytime NH has traded a ML piece with real value he's bombed it. It's only been a few times overall, but he's batting about .250 Melancon for Rivero was a great trade and Hanrahan /Holt for a plethora of junk and underperforming Melancon was ok. Those are the two that aren't complete zeros. Bay was a disaster. Neil Walker was as disaster.
At some point, you are SUPPOSED to get value in return for value though, so I don't go bending over backward praising a move like Hanrahan and Brock Holt to the Red Sox because Melancon worked out. Brock Holt worked out for them too, and while Hanrahan didn't Melancon was a disaster for them, so what were they losing value-wise?
So it's not like NH fetched someone performing at a high level for Hanrahan and Holt. He fetched a plethora of scrubs with possible upside and one of them hit (Melancon)
With Rivero, he did pick up an already very talented and performing pen pitcher (and another arm in addition) for one of the best closers in baseball. That's talent for talent.
The Hanrahan trade was some talent for a whole bunch of junk that might work out
McCutchen's drop off
The way I see it, with Cutch's hot streak, there are really only two viable options available to the Pirates:
A. Trade him this year prior to the deadline
B. Work out a long-term extension and make him the clear face of the franchise so he can retire a Pirate.
Not picking up his option isn't really an option any more. Having him play out next year and walk as an FA isn't really an option either. I've always said that I'm more concerned about the name on the front of the jersey than the one on the back. So, if trading McCutchen is better for the competitiveness of the Pittsburgh Pirates, I'm all for it. But, I'm not convinced that it will be. Part of me is really beginning to think that they should offer him 5 years, $100 million.
A. Trade him this year prior to the deadline
B. Work out a long-term extension and make him the clear face of the franchise so he can retire a Pirate.
Not picking up his option isn't really an option any more. Having him play out next year and walk as an FA isn't really an option either. I've always said that I'm more concerned about the name on the front of the jersey than the one on the back. So, if trading McCutchen is better for the competitiveness of the Pittsburgh Pirates, I'm all for it. But, I'm not convinced that it will be. Part of me is really beginning to think that they should offer him 5 years, $100 million.
McCutchen's drop off
507677607666150 wrote: We must get a haul from trading Cutch. We need to find a Giles /Bay type.
What a shame that is the mentality of Pirates fans. We have a superstar that has been the face of this franchise, a homegrown MVP and all we can think about is what we will get in a trade.
I think Cutch has been a fine player for us. But he has just had about 2 good months of play in the last season and a half.
Thankfully 1 of those months was this past june. We need to cash in on that. Do you really think Cutch is a $20 mil type of player now. I don`t . I dont`get to attached to players anymore. When Bonds left that killed me.Since then, I`m always on the look out for young guys that we can get a solid 5 years from and then let them go.
We'd be foolish if we didn't take this opportunity to test the waters. See if he can't pull in some top prospects, giving us 6+ ML seasons EACH, for 1.5 seasons of Cutch. We'd be brass-plated morons if we signed him now. He was bad FOR A YEAR AND A HALF, and he's had what? 6 good weeks? Cutch isn't the Cutch of 2 years ago, and even if we sign him, we aren't going to ever see that Cutch again. We'll be paying him MORE for the player he was, while he declines and does less. Even if you think his bat is back, his knees are not getting younger.
We NEED to repopulate the farm system, because as things are, the Pirates cannot or will not buy their way to a championship. Hell, the couple of years when ONE GOOD PLAYER could have pushed us into the playoffs, they did not do it. We play the hand we're dealt, not the hand we wish we had. Cutch could buy us 12+ years of ML players, maybe even 18+ years of ML players. If the FO does their job, there will be all-stars in the trade.
This team is going nowhere this year, so we'd only be giving up, possibly, one year where a good performance from Cutch can help the team. Weigh that against what a good trade could bring back in return for that one year, and it's a no-brainer. Keeping Cutch is not going to put us into the playoffs. A good haul in a trade could put us in contention for the playoffs for years.
I don't trust Neal H. in making a big trade.
The players on the 25 man roster that he originally trade for are:
Cervelli
Nova
Bastardo
Williams
Harrison
LeBlanc
Rivero
Jaso, Freese, Hudson, Nicasio were free agents.
Well, then, why trust him to pick for the draft? Or find Latin American players? Or sign free agents?
I am at the stage that I don't trust him to do anything but can see why others do. But if decision is made to blow up team then I think the decision should also be made to replace management.
If you don't trust the GM to do ANYTHING, it sounds like you're in for a lot of heartache and acid indigestion. Might want to adopt a secondary team and concentrate on them until this terrible cancer is removed from the Pirates organization.
Also, it kind of makes discussing many things with you pointless. Anything done to improve the team goes through the GM, and you're not going to like any suggestion that involves trades, signings, drafting, etc, as you don't trust him to do it right.
What a shame that is the mentality of Pirates fans. We have a superstar that has been the face of this franchise, a homegrown MVP and all we can think about is what we will get in a trade.
I think Cutch has been a fine player for us. But he has just had about 2 good months of play in the last season and a half.
Thankfully 1 of those months was this past june. We need to cash in on that. Do you really think Cutch is a $20 mil type of player now. I don`t . I dont`get to attached to players anymore. When Bonds left that killed me.Since then, I`m always on the look out for young guys that we can get a solid 5 years from and then let them go.
We'd be foolish if we didn't take this opportunity to test the waters. See if he can't pull in some top prospects, giving us 6+ ML seasons EACH, for 1.5 seasons of Cutch. We'd be brass-plated morons if we signed him now. He was bad FOR A YEAR AND A HALF, and he's had what? 6 good weeks? Cutch isn't the Cutch of 2 years ago, and even if we sign him, we aren't going to ever see that Cutch again. We'll be paying him MORE for the player he was, while he declines and does less. Even if you think his bat is back, his knees are not getting younger.
We NEED to repopulate the farm system, because as things are, the Pirates cannot or will not buy their way to a championship. Hell, the couple of years when ONE GOOD PLAYER could have pushed us into the playoffs, they did not do it. We play the hand we're dealt, not the hand we wish we had. Cutch could buy us 12+ years of ML players, maybe even 18+ years of ML players. If the FO does their job, there will be all-stars in the trade.
This team is going nowhere this year, so we'd only be giving up, possibly, one year where a good performance from Cutch can help the team. Weigh that against what a good trade could bring back in return for that one year, and it's a no-brainer. Keeping Cutch is not going to put us into the playoffs. A good haul in a trade could put us in contention for the playoffs for years.
I don't trust Neal H. in making a big trade.
The players on the 25 man roster that he originally trade for are:
Cervelli
Nova
Bastardo
Williams
Harrison
LeBlanc
Rivero
Jaso, Freese, Hudson, Nicasio were free agents.
Well, then, why trust him to pick for the draft? Or find Latin American players? Or sign free agents?
I am at the stage that I don't trust him to do anything but can see why others do. But if decision is made to blow up team then I think the decision should also be made to replace management.
If you don't trust the GM to do ANYTHING, it sounds like you're in for a lot of heartache and acid indigestion. Might want to adopt a secondary team and concentrate on them until this terrible cancer is removed from the Pirates organization.
Also, it kind of makes discussing many things with you pointless. Anything done to improve the team goes through the GM, and you're not going to like any suggestion that involves trades, signings, drafting, etc, as you don't trust him to do it right.
McCutchen's drop off
4279737854100 wrote: You gotta keep turning over players,get 5-7 years from them and let them go. Why pay for guys age 33 and up big money. Then you will have some bad contracts .Sure you may lose out on a few who can keep up a standard of play (David Ortiz) .But you wont get stuck with the Joe Mauer or Make Texeia type contracts.
Exactly. We sign Cutch, we'll be signing him to a contract based on the stats of his youth, and he won't be delivering that performance any more, particularly at the end of his contract. We trade him now, the other team gets 1.5 years of (hopefully*) Cutch-like performance, and we (hopefully*) get 12+ years of ML players in their prime.
*nothing is guaranteed, of course.
Exactly. We sign Cutch, we'll be signing him to a contract based on the stats of his youth, and he won't be delivering that performance any more, particularly at the end of his contract. We trade him now, the other team gets 1.5 years of (hopefully*) Cutch-like performance, and we (hopefully*) get 12+ years of ML players in their prime.
*nothing is guaranteed, of course.
McCutchen's drop off
0D262A2326277D70490 wrote: We must get a haul from trading Cutch. We need to find a Giles /Bay type.
What a shame that is the mentality of Pirates fans. We have a superstar that has been the face of this franchise, a homegrown MVP and all we can think about is what we will get in a trade.
I think Cutch has been a fine player for us. But he has just had about 2 good months of play in the last season and a half.
Thankfully 1 of those months was this past june. We need to cash in on that. Do you really think Cutch is a $20 mil type of player now. I don`t . I dont`get to attached to players anymore. When Bonds left that killed me.Since then, I`m always on the look out for young guys that we can get a solid 5 years from and then let them go.
We'd be foolish if we didn't take this opportunity to test the waters. See if he can't pull in some top prospects, giving us 6+ ML seasons EACH, for 1.5 seasons of Cutch. We'd be brass-plated morons if we signed him now. He was bad FOR A YEAR AND A HALF, and he's had what? 6 good weeks? Cutch isn't the Cutch of 2 years ago, and even if we sign him, we aren't going to ever see that Cutch again. We'll be paying him MORE for the player he was, while he declines and does less. Even if you think his bat is back, his knees are not getting younger.
We NEED to repopulate the farm system, because as things are, the Pirates cannot or will not buy their way to a championship. Hell, the couple of years when ONE GOOD PLAYER could have pushed us into the playoffs, they did not do it. We play the hand we're dealt, not the hand we wish we had. Cutch could buy us 12+ years of ML players, maybe even 18+ years of ML players. If the FO does their job, there will be all-stars in the trade.
This team is going nowhere this year, so we'd only be giving up, possibly, one year where a good performance from Cutch can help the team. Weigh that against what a good trade could bring back in return for that one year, and it's a no-brainer. Keeping Cutch is not going to put us into the playoffs. A good haul in a trade could put us in contention for the playoffs for years.
I don't trust Neal H. in making a big trade.
The players on the 25 man roster that he originally trade for are:
Cervelli
Nova
Bastardo
Williams
Harrison
LeBlanc
Rivero
Jaso, Freese, Hudson, Nicasio were free agents.
Well, then, why trust him to pick for the draft? Or find Latin American players? Or sign free agents?
I am at the stage that I don't trust him to do anything but can see why others do. But if decision is made to blow up team then I think the decision should also be made to replace management.
If you don't trust the GM to do ANYTHING, it sounds like you're in for a lot of heartache and acid indigestion. Might want to adopt a secondary team and concentrate on them until this terrible cancer is removed from the Pirates organization.
Also, it kind of makes discussing many things with you pointless. Anything done to improve the team goes through the GM, and you're not going to like any suggestion that involves trades, signings, drafting, etc, as you don't trust him to do it right.
I don't think everything is going down the tubes but my feeling is that we have seen the best we can from this management team. After all their self stated goal was to compete for championships year in and year out. So I think they have failed based upon their own goals. I can see keeping them in place as staying the course with a proven commodity can be less risky than going with someone new. I just don't think the odds of this group getting to championship caliber team are very good and that the good moves that they make will be cancelled out by the ones that don't work out.
What a shame that is the mentality of Pirates fans. We have a superstar that has been the face of this franchise, a homegrown MVP and all we can think about is what we will get in a trade.
I think Cutch has been a fine player for us. But he has just had about 2 good months of play in the last season and a half.
Thankfully 1 of those months was this past june. We need to cash in on that. Do you really think Cutch is a $20 mil type of player now. I don`t . I dont`get to attached to players anymore. When Bonds left that killed me.Since then, I`m always on the look out for young guys that we can get a solid 5 years from and then let them go.
We'd be foolish if we didn't take this opportunity to test the waters. See if he can't pull in some top prospects, giving us 6+ ML seasons EACH, for 1.5 seasons of Cutch. We'd be brass-plated morons if we signed him now. He was bad FOR A YEAR AND A HALF, and he's had what? 6 good weeks? Cutch isn't the Cutch of 2 years ago, and even if we sign him, we aren't going to ever see that Cutch again. We'll be paying him MORE for the player he was, while he declines and does less. Even if you think his bat is back, his knees are not getting younger.
We NEED to repopulate the farm system, because as things are, the Pirates cannot or will not buy their way to a championship. Hell, the couple of years when ONE GOOD PLAYER could have pushed us into the playoffs, they did not do it. We play the hand we're dealt, not the hand we wish we had. Cutch could buy us 12+ years of ML players, maybe even 18+ years of ML players. If the FO does their job, there will be all-stars in the trade.
This team is going nowhere this year, so we'd only be giving up, possibly, one year where a good performance from Cutch can help the team. Weigh that against what a good trade could bring back in return for that one year, and it's a no-brainer. Keeping Cutch is not going to put us into the playoffs. A good haul in a trade could put us in contention for the playoffs for years.
I don't trust Neal H. in making a big trade.
The players on the 25 man roster that he originally trade for are:
Cervelli
Nova
Bastardo
Williams
Harrison
LeBlanc
Rivero
Jaso, Freese, Hudson, Nicasio were free agents.
Well, then, why trust him to pick for the draft? Or find Latin American players? Or sign free agents?
I am at the stage that I don't trust him to do anything but can see why others do. But if decision is made to blow up team then I think the decision should also be made to replace management.
If you don't trust the GM to do ANYTHING, it sounds like you're in for a lot of heartache and acid indigestion. Might want to adopt a secondary team and concentrate on them until this terrible cancer is removed from the Pirates organization.
Also, it kind of makes discussing many things with you pointless. Anything done to improve the team goes through the GM, and you're not going to like any suggestion that involves trades, signings, drafting, etc, as you don't trust him to do it right.
I don't think everything is going down the tubes but my feeling is that we have seen the best we can from this management team. After all their self stated goal was to compete for championships year in and year out. So I think they have failed based upon their own goals. I can see keeping them in place as staying the course with a proven commodity can be less risky than going with someone new. I just don't think the odds of this group getting to championship caliber team are very good and that the good moves that they make will be cancelled out by the ones that don't work out.
McCutchen's drop off
6C4A4B5C4A5A290 wrote: We must get a haul from trading Cutch. We need to find a Giles /Bay type.
What a shame that is the mentality of Pirates fans. We have a superstar that has been the face of this franchise, a homegrown MVP and all we can think about is what we will get in a trade.
I think Cutch has been a fine player for us. But he has just had about 2 good months of play in the last season and a half.
Thankfully 1 of those months was this past june. We need to cash in on that. Do you really think Cutch is a $20 mil type of player now. I don`t . I dont`get to attached to players anymore. When Bonds left that killed me.Since then, I`m always on the look out for young guys that we can get a solid 5 years from and then let them go.
We'd be foolish if we didn't take this opportunity to test the waters. See if he can't pull in some top prospects, giving us 6+ ML seasons EACH, for 1.5 seasons of Cutch. We'd be brass-plated morons if we signed him now. He was bad FOR A YEAR AND A HALF, and he's had what? 6 good weeks? Cutch isn't the Cutch of 2 years ago, and even if we sign him, we aren't going to ever see that Cutch again. We'll be paying him MORE for the player he was, while he declines and does less. Even if you think his bat is back, his knees are not getting younger.
We NEED to repopulate the farm system, because as things are, the Pirates cannot or will not buy their way to a championship. Hell, the couple of years when ONE GOOD PLAYER could have pushed us into the playoffs, they did not do it. We play the hand we're dealt, not the hand we wish we had. Cutch could buy us 12+ years of ML players, maybe even 18+ years of ML players. If the FO does their job, there will be all-stars in the trade.
This team is going nowhere this year, so we'd only be giving up, possibly, one year where a good performance from Cutch can help the team. Weigh that against what a good trade could bring back in return for that one year, and it's a no-brainer. Keeping Cutch is not going to put us into the playoffs. A good haul in a trade could put us in contention for the playoffs for years.
I don't trust Neal H. in making a big trade.
The players on the 25 man roster that he originally trade for are:
Cervelli
Nova
Bastardo
Williams
Harrison
LeBlanc
Rivero
Jaso, Freese, Hudson, Nicasio were free agents.
Well, then, why trust him to pick for the draft? Or find Latin American players? Or sign free agents?
I am at the stage that I don't trust him to do anything but can see why others do. But if decision is made to blow up team then I think the decision should also be made to replace management.
If you don't trust the GM to do ANYTHING, it sounds like you're in for a lot of heartache and acid indigestion. Might want to adopt a secondary team and concentrate on them until this terrible cancer is removed from the Pirates organization.
Also, it kind of makes discussing many things with you pointless. Anything done to improve the team goes through the GM, and you're not going to like any suggestion that involves trades, signings, drafting, etc, as you don't trust him to do it right.
I don't think everything is going down the tubes but my feeling is that we have seen the best we can from this management team. After all their self stated goal was to compete for championships year in and year out. So I think they have failed based upon their own goals. I can see keeping them in place as staying the course with a proven commodity can be less risky than going with someone new. I just don't think the odds of this group getting to championship caliber team are very good and that the good moves that they make will be cancelled out by the ones that don't work out.
Well, I think they did a decent job once they recovered from the travesty they inherited, but they're clearly hamstrung by the budget. How many of us cried out for a #1 to #3 pitcher in recent years, when it was obvious we were close to winning it all. They didn't do it, and I HAVE to believe they saw the same weaknesses we did. Ownership didn't give them the payroll to do it. Anyone else you hire is going to have the same issue, and probably won't be able to reliably overcome it either.
This year, they couldn't have anticipated losing Marte and Kang. Losing 2 players of their caliber would hurt even big-money teams, but that crushed us. If they were with us, we might have taken a surprisingly under-performing division.
What a shame that is the mentality of Pirates fans. We have a superstar that has been the face of this franchise, a homegrown MVP and all we can think about is what we will get in a trade.
I think Cutch has been a fine player for us. But he has just had about 2 good months of play in the last season and a half.
Thankfully 1 of those months was this past june. We need to cash in on that. Do you really think Cutch is a $20 mil type of player now. I don`t . I dont`get to attached to players anymore. When Bonds left that killed me.Since then, I`m always on the look out for young guys that we can get a solid 5 years from and then let them go.
We'd be foolish if we didn't take this opportunity to test the waters. See if he can't pull in some top prospects, giving us 6+ ML seasons EACH, for 1.5 seasons of Cutch. We'd be brass-plated morons if we signed him now. He was bad FOR A YEAR AND A HALF, and he's had what? 6 good weeks? Cutch isn't the Cutch of 2 years ago, and even if we sign him, we aren't going to ever see that Cutch again. We'll be paying him MORE for the player he was, while he declines and does less. Even if you think his bat is back, his knees are not getting younger.
We NEED to repopulate the farm system, because as things are, the Pirates cannot or will not buy their way to a championship. Hell, the couple of years when ONE GOOD PLAYER could have pushed us into the playoffs, they did not do it. We play the hand we're dealt, not the hand we wish we had. Cutch could buy us 12+ years of ML players, maybe even 18+ years of ML players. If the FO does their job, there will be all-stars in the trade.
This team is going nowhere this year, so we'd only be giving up, possibly, one year where a good performance from Cutch can help the team. Weigh that against what a good trade could bring back in return for that one year, and it's a no-brainer. Keeping Cutch is not going to put us into the playoffs. A good haul in a trade could put us in contention for the playoffs for years.
I don't trust Neal H. in making a big trade.
The players on the 25 man roster that he originally trade for are:
Cervelli
Nova
Bastardo
Williams
Harrison
LeBlanc
Rivero
Jaso, Freese, Hudson, Nicasio were free agents.
Well, then, why trust him to pick for the draft? Or find Latin American players? Or sign free agents?
I am at the stage that I don't trust him to do anything but can see why others do. But if decision is made to blow up team then I think the decision should also be made to replace management.
If you don't trust the GM to do ANYTHING, it sounds like you're in for a lot of heartache and acid indigestion. Might want to adopt a secondary team and concentrate on them until this terrible cancer is removed from the Pirates organization.
Also, it kind of makes discussing many things with you pointless. Anything done to improve the team goes through the GM, and you're not going to like any suggestion that involves trades, signings, drafting, etc, as you don't trust him to do it right.
I don't think everything is going down the tubes but my feeling is that we have seen the best we can from this management team. After all their self stated goal was to compete for championships year in and year out. So I think they have failed based upon their own goals. I can see keeping them in place as staying the course with a proven commodity can be less risky than going with someone new. I just don't think the odds of this group getting to championship caliber team are very good and that the good moves that they make will be cancelled out by the ones that don't work out.
Well, I think they did a decent job once they recovered from the travesty they inherited, but they're clearly hamstrung by the budget. How many of us cried out for a #1 to #3 pitcher in recent years, when it was obvious we were close to winning it all. They didn't do it, and I HAVE to believe they saw the same weaknesses we did. Ownership didn't give them the payroll to do it. Anyone else you hire is going to have the same issue, and probably won't be able to reliably overcome it either.
This year, they couldn't have anticipated losing Marte and Kang. Losing 2 players of their caliber would hurt even big-money teams, but that crushed us. If they were with us, we might have taken a surprisingly under-performing division.