I am ecstatic that the team was able to sweep the Brewers in a 5 game series. Nearly every player on the team contributed at one point or another in the wins.
I had a chance to watch all 5 games on TV, first pitch to last pitch, and still find it hard to believe that the team overcame adversity 3 innings in a row to win the final game. In games 1-4 the team virtually had the lead through-out the game and in some contests, it really was a question to see if they could hang on to win. They did, which set the table for Sunday.
Sunday's win was a classic. There was a reason Steve Blass (who I did not hear) and Greg Brown were screaming. The Pirates should not have won that game after what happened in the 8th, but they did. The pouring rain added to the drama and perhaps allow the (very) slow footed Moran to score when Kratz couldn't handle the throw home.
Now for my rant, that is the only thing that detracted from an unbelievable win. From where I sit, Hurdle managed like he was comfortable with winning the first 4 games. Not only did he not rise to the moment, he failed to embrace the genuine enthusiasm and grit that the players on the team were showing.
First, in the 8th, anyone could see that Musgrove, who had pitched brilliantly to that point, was out of gas (105 pitches). He not only walks one, but walks two to load the bases in a 2-2 game. While many in the pen had thrown a few innings over the past several days, there is a 4 game break coming up for everyone but Vasquez. What happens, Musgrove is rocked by a 3 run triple. Rodriguez, who only needed to get one out, then enters the game and efficiently dispatches of the hitter. Come on Clint, let's manage to win today.
The Bucs start to mount a comeback in the bottom of the 8th, survive an inning from Brault (who benefited greatly from the umps not overruling an out call at 3rd), and then actually manage to dramatically score 2 in the bottom of the 9th to tie the game. The whole dug-out was on fire!
So, what does Hurdle do for the top of the 10th in a 5-5 game. He brings in Tanner Anderson, who was completely lit up by the Dodgers, who was just recalled, and who was appearing in his 2nd big league game. Unbelievable to me. Santana or Crick couldn't go an inning. Williams also was sitting in the pen and it was announced that he was available to pitch. When Anderson was giving up a run the TV camera showed Clint Hurdle looking at the roster in the dug-out with an expression of like geez - what am I to do. I only have a roster with 6 pitchers (Crick, Santana, Vasquez, Feliz, Glasnow and Williams) who haven't pitched yet, I really have no option but to pitch Tanner Anderson. By some miracle, Anderson only gives up one. That said, a team that clawed their way back from a 3 run deficit in the 8th and 9th to tie the game (and against all-star relievers and the Brewers' closer) suddenly had to find a way to score at least one more run.
The bottom of the 10th was magical. The excitement shown by the Pirate players was real as they joyfully embraced Bell. I know he didn't hit a home run that knocked out the lights in the stadium, but with the pouring rain it was as close to a "The Natural" moment that you may see, even though it may mean little going forward.
So --- why rant. This game symbolized all of the reasons that I want the Pirates to fire Hurdle. The players realize where things are at. There are few fannies in the seats, they have been written off as dead weight (including by me), they are playing for pride, and they just did something that is very rare; they swept a 5 game series, including both games of a Double Header, and they knocked out the team that had been in first. Their manager, however, didn't give the players the respect that they deserved and didn't do everything he could to manage to win. Clint, didn't you see that the players knew that 4 wins wasn't good enough,? Sadly, you failed to recognize how much they wanted number 5.
Lastly, Clint chose to save all of the pitchers yesterday, but had little problem using Vasquez to pitch in most games this past week. Clearly, Hurdle is not the only reason the team has less than a .500 record, but from where I sit, he sure is a contributor. Hurdle should be fired now!
Brewers@Bucs 7/15 Sweep this series Game Thread...
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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iwatch
Brewers@Bucs 7/15 Sweep this series Game Thread...
Thank you. I said basically the same after the doubleheader and only got an it-all-worked-so-he-proved-himself response. If he hadn't mismanaged the pitching in the 2nd game of the doubleheader, maybe someone is available. (Crick should've been anyway).
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3630
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Brewers@Bucs 7/15 Sweep this series Game Thread...
i was gone this weekend and missed most of the games, but after playing five games in four days, I wouldn't really be shocked that some guys were unavailable. Yeah there's a long rest time here but I'm not sure that that helps now.
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Wrathchild
- Posts: 152
- Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:23 pm
Brewers@Bucs 7/15 Sweep this series Game Thread...
There were certainly guys unavailable---Feliz and Glasnow for sure. Maybe Vazquez since he threw both ends of the DH. You'd probably prefer to not use Crick or Santana since they pitched Friday and Saturday but those outings weren't so long as to make them completely unavailable I wouldn't think.
Nevertheless, Rodriguez was available and should have been used earlier in the 8th. Musgrove was clearly struggling at the end and Rodriguez inexplicably ended up being essentially used in a mop up capacity.
Then, instead of just going to Anderson in the 9th, he used his available long man in a position that was coming up to bat if the Pirates managed some runs.
It all worked out and it was great, but I didn't think Hurdle handled the situation well.
Nevertheless, Rodriguez was available and should have been used earlier in the 8th. Musgrove was clearly struggling at the end and Rodriguez inexplicably ended up being essentially used in a mop up capacity.
Then, instead of just going to Anderson in the 9th, he used his available long man in a position that was coming up to bat if the Pirates managed some runs.
It all worked out and it was great, but I didn't think Hurdle handled the situation well.
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Bobster21
Brewers@Bucs 7/15 Sweep this series Game Thread...
Once again Hurdle prioritized resting players over winning. He simply doesn't emphasize winning. With pitchers available and a 4-day rest coming up, he basically gave up on winning and decided to let Anderson pitch so the rest of the pen could rest.
Hurdle's explanation is troubling. Per the Trib:
“You’ll hear, they’ll get four days off (for the All-Star Game),” Hurdle said. “Yeah, if you don’t break them by pitching them the one extra time.
“We gambled. We pitched the way we pitched. We planned it. We followed it. Tanner was the guy to get the ball.”
It shows that he is so obsessed with resting players that he fears they could "break" if they pitched 1 more time before the AS break. So with that in mind, he decided on a plan that Anderson would have to pitch and followed it. Predictably, the rookie who was hit hard in LA immediately gave up a run in the 10th while better pitchers sat and watched. But that was the plan and Hurdle was not going to stray from it. Resting players was important. Winning was not. It all flows from the top. Nutting obviously does not care about winning. Nor does NH. Nor does Hurdle. The Pirates had to overcome their own manager to win the game.
Hurdle's explanation is troubling. Per the Trib:
“You’ll hear, they’ll get four days off (for the All-Star Game),” Hurdle said. “Yeah, if you don’t break them by pitching them the one extra time.
“We gambled. We pitched the way we pitched. We planned it. We followed it. Tanner was the guy to get the ball.”
It shows that he is so obsessed with resting players that he fears they could "break" if they pitched 1 more time before the AS break. So with that in mind, he decided on a plan that Anderson would have to pitch and followed it. Predictably, the rookie who was hit hard in LA immediately gave up a run in the 10th while better pitchers sat and watched. But that was the plan and Hurdle was not going to stray from it. Resting players was important. Winning was not. It all flows from the top. Nutting obviously does not care about winning. Nor does NH. Nor does Hurdle. The Pirates had to overcome their own manager to win the game.
Brewers@Bucs 7/15 Sweep this series Game Thread...
Didn't see the comments in the Trib, but then again, didn't really need to see them to form my opinions regarding the disgraceful display of managing that I saw.
Anderson's main role should have been to step in if the Brewers had lit up Musgrove. In short, an innings eater where the outcome had largely been decided.
What I also don't get is how he valued Santana, Crick, Feliz, Williams and nearly every other reliever getting more rest compared to his recent usage of Vasquez. Vasquez pitched in something like 5 games out of 7 games, including both games of the double-header. I took that as a hopeful sign that Hurdle finally realized that the season may have nearly completely slipped away and that he needed to show more desperation. Well, he sure didn't show such yesterday.
Surprisingly (amazingly), the Bucs won, but that did such despite Hurdle failing to give the team the best chance at winning.
Anderson's main role should have been to step in if the Brewers had lit up Musgrove. In short, an innings eater where the outcome had largely been decided.
What I also don't get is how he valued Santana, Crick, Feliz, Williams and nearly every other reliever getting more rest compared to his recent usage of Vasquez. Vasquez pitched in something like 5 games out of 7 games, including both games of the double-header. I took that as a hopeful sign that Hurdle finally realized that the season may have nearly completely slipped away and that he needed to show more desperation. Well, he sure didn't show such yesterday.
Surprisingly (amazingly), the Bucs won, but that did such despite Hurdle failing to give the team the best chance at winning.
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Bobster21
Brewers@Bucs 7/15 Sweep this series Game Thread...
6D41494E4562554353200 wrote: Didn't see the comments in the Trib, but then again, didn't really need to see them to form my opinions regarding the disgraceful display of managing that I saw.
Anderson's main role should have been to step in if the Brewers had lit up Musgrove. In short, an innings eater where the outcome had largely been decided.
What I also don't get is how he valued Santana, Crick, Feliz, Williams and nearly every other reliever getting more rest compared to his recent usage of Vasquez. Vasquez pitched in something like 5 games out of 7 games, including both games of the double-header. I took that as a hopeful sign that Hurdle finally realized that the season may have nearly completely slipped away and that he needed to show more desperation. Well, he sure didn't show such yesterday.
Surprisingly (amazingly), the Bucs won, but that did such despite Hurdle failing to give the team the best chance at winning.
This is why it's so difficult to project how the Pirates will do in the 2nd half. It's tough enough to project how players will perform. But even they are performing well, there's the Hurdle factor of not always trying hard enough to win.
Anderson's main role should have been to step in if the Brewers had lit up Musgrove. In short, an innings eater where the outcome had largely been decided.
What I also don't get is how he valued Santana, Crick, Feliz, Williams and nearly every other reliever getting more rest compared to his recent usage of Vasquez. Vasquez pitched in something like 5 games out of 7 games, including both games of the double-header. I took that as a hopeful sign that Hurdle finally realized that the season may have nearly completely slipped away and that he needed to show more desperation. Well, he sure didn't show such yesterday.
Surprisingly (amazingly), the Bucs won, but that did such despite Hurdle failing to give the team the best chance at winning.
This is why it's so difficult to project how the Pirates will do in the 2nd half. It's tough enough to project how players will perform. But even they are performing well, there's the Hurdle factor of not always trying hard enough to win.
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SteadyFreddy
Brewers@Bucs 7/15 Sweep this series Game Thread...
Yea I was driving home listening to the game yesterday and heard that Anderson was brought in to pitch the 10th with the game tied and immediately knew right away without having to hear anything from Block or Blass on the radio that Clint was resting his best pitchers which is utterly ridiculous. Like you pointed out Bobster luckily the Pirates had to overcome their own manager resting players to sweep a 5 game series and have a 2 game swing in the standings.
Brewers@Bucs 7/15 Sweep this series Game Thread...
6B474F484364534555260 wrote: I am ecstatic that the team was able to sweep the Brewers in a 5 game series. Nearly every player on the team contributed at one point or another in the wins.
I had a chance to watch all 5 games on TV, first pitch to last pitch, and still find it hard to believe that the team overcame adversity 3 innings in a row to win the final game. In games 1-4 the team virtually had the lead through-out the game and in some contests, it really was a question to see if they could hang on to win. They did, which set the table for Sunday.
Sunday's win was a classic. There was a reason Steve Blass (who I did not hear) and Greg Brown were screaming. The Pirates should not have won that game after what happened in the 8th, but they did. The pouring rain added to the drama and perhaps allow the (very) slow footed Moran to score when Kratz couldn't handle the throw home.
Now for my rant, that is the only thing that detracted from an unbelievable win. From where I sit, Hurdle managed like he was comfortable with winning the first 4 games. Not only did he not rise to the moment, he failed to embrace the genuine enthusiasm and grit that the players on the team were showing.
First, in the 8th, anyone could see that Musgrove, who had pitched brilliantly to that point, was out of gas (105 pitches). He not only walks one, but walks two to load the bases in a 2-2 game. While many in the pen had thrown a few innings over the past several days, there is a 4 game break coming up for everyone but Vasquez. What happens, Musgrove is rocked by a 3 run triple. Rodriguez, who only needed to get one out, then enters the game and efficiently dispatches of the hitter. Come on Clint, let's manage to win today.
The Bucs start to mount a comeback in the bottom of the 8th, survive an inning from Brault (who benefited greatly from the umps not overruling an out call at 3rd), and then actually manage to dramatically score 2 in the bottom of the 9th to tie the game. The whole dug-out was on fire!
So, what does Hurdle do for the top of the 10th in a 5-5 game. He brings in Tanner Anderson, who was completely lit up by the Dodgers, who was just recalled, and who was appearing in his 2nd big league game. Unbelievable to me. Santana or Crick couldn't go an inning. Williams also was sitting in the pen and it was announced that he was available to pitch. When Anderson was giving up a run the TV camera showed Clint Hurdle looking at the roster in the dug-out with an expression of like geez - what am I to do. I only have a roster with 6 pitchers (Crick, Santana, Vasquez, Feliz, Glasnow and Williams) who haven't pitched yet, I really have no option but to pitch Tanner Anderson. By some miracle, Anderson only gives up one. That said, a team that clawed their way back from a 3 run deficit in the 8th and 9th to tie the game (and against all-star relievers and the Brewers' closer) suddenly had to find a way to score at least one more run.
The bottom of the 10th was magical. The excitement shown by the Pirate players was real as they joyfully embraced Bell. I know he didn't hit a home run that knocked out the lights in the stadium, but with the pouring rain it was as close to a "The Natural" moment that you may see, even though it may mean little going forward.
So --- why rant. This game symbolized all of the reasons that I want the Pirates to fire Hurdle. The players realize where things are at. There are few fannies in the seats, they have been written off as dead weight (including by me), they are playing for pride, and they just did something that is very rare; they swept a 5 game series, including both games of a Double Header, and they knocked out the team that had been in first. Their manager, however, didn't give the players the respect that they deserved and didn't do everything he could to manage to win. Clint, didn't you see that the players knew that 4 wins wasn't good enough,? Sadly, you failed to recognize how much they wanted number 5.
Lastly, Clint chose to save all of the pitchers yesterday, but had little problem using Vasquez to pitch in most games this past week. Clearly, Hurdle is not the only reason the team has less than a .500 record, but from where I sit, he sure is a contributor. Hurdle should be fired now!
Mainer speaks the truth!
I had a chance to watch all 5 games on TV, first pitch to last pitch, and still find it hard to believe that the team overcame adversity 3 innings in a row to win the final game. In games 1-4 the team virtually had the lead through-out the game and in some contests, it really was a question to see if they could hang on to win. They did, which set the table for Sunday.
Sunday's win was a classic. There was a reason Steve Blass (who I did not hear) and Greg Brown were screaming. The Pirates should not have won that game after what happened in the 8th, but they did. The pouring rain added to the drama and perhaps allow the (very) slow footed Moran to score when Kratz couldn't handle the throw home.
Now for my rant, that is the only thing that detracted from an unbelievable win. From where I sit, Hurdle managed like he was comfortable with winning the first 4 games. Not only did he not rise to the moment, he failed to embrace the genuine enthusiasm and grit that the players on the team were showing.
First, in the 8th, anyone could see that Musgrove, who had pitched brilliantly to that point, was out of gas (105 pitches). He not only walks one, but walks two to load the bases in a 2-2 game. While many in the pen had thrown a few innings over the past several days, there is a 4 game break coming up for everyone but Vasquez. What happens, Musgrove is rocked by a 3 run triple. Rodriguez, who only needed to get one out, then enters the game and efficiently dispatches of the hitter. Come on Clint, let's manage to win today.
The Bucs start to mount a comeback in the bottom of the 8th, survive an inning from Brault (who benefited greatly from the umps not overruling an out call at 3rd), and then actually manage to dramatically score 2 in the bottom of the 9th to tie the game. The whole dug-out was on fire!
So, what does Hurdle do for the top of the 10th in a 5-5 game. He brings in Tanner Anderson, who was completely lit up by the Dodgers, who was just recalled, and who was appearing in his 2nd big league game. Unbelievable to me. Santana or Crick couldn't go an inning. Williams also was sitting in the pen and it was announced that he was available to pitch. When Anderson was giving up a run the TV camera showed Clint Hurdle looking at the roster in the dug-out with an expression of like geez - what am I to do. I only have a roster with 6 pitchers (Crick, Santana, Vasquez, Feliz, Glasnow and Williams) who haven't pitched yet, I really have no option but to pitch Tanner Anderson. By some miracle, Anderson only gives up one. That said, a team that clawed their way back from a 3 run deficit in the 8th and 9th to tie the game (and against all-star relievers and the Brewers' closer) suddenly had to find a way to score at least one more run.
The bottom of the 10th was magical. The excitement shown by the Pirate players was real as they joyfully embraced Bell. I know he didn't hit a home run that knocked out the lights in the stadium, but with the pouring rain it was as close to a "The Natural" moment that you may see, even though it may mean little going forward.
So --- why rant. This game symbolized all of the reasons that I want the Pirates to fire Hurdle. The players realize where things are at. There are few fannies in the seats, they have been written off as dead weight (including by me), they are playing for pride, and they just did something that is very rare; they swept a 5 game series, including both games of a Double Header, and they knocked out the team that had been in first. Their manager, however, didn't give the players the respect that they deserved and didn't do everything he could to manage to win. Clint, didn't you see that the players knew that 4 wins wasn't good enough,? Sadly, you failed to recognize how much they wanted number 5.
Lastly, Clint chose to save all of the pitchers yesterday, but had little problem using Vasquez to pitch in most games this past week. Clearly, Hurdle is not the only reason the team has less than a .500 record, but from where I sit, he sure is a contributor. Hurdle should be fired now!
Mainer speaks the truth!
Brewers@Bucs 7/15 Sweep this series Game Thread...
705D50414657400003320 wrote: Once again Hurdle prioritized resting players over winning. He simply doesn't emphasize winning. With pitchers available and a 4-day rest coming up, he basically gave up on winning and decided to let Anderson pitch so the rest of the pen could rest.
Hurdle's explanation is troubling. Per the Trib:
“You’ll hear, they’ll get four days off (for the All-Star Game),” Hurdle said. “Yeah, if you don’t break them by pitching them the one extra time.
“We gambled. We pitched the way we pitched. We planned it. We followed it. Tanner was the guy to get the ball.”
It shows that he is so obsessed with resting players that he fears they could "break" if they pitched 1 more time before the AS break. So with that in mind, he decided on a plan that Anderson would have to pitch and followed it. Predictably, the rookie who was hit hard in LA immediately gave up a run in the 10th while better pitchers sat and watched. But that was the plan and Hurdle was not going to stray from it. Resting players was important. Winning was not. It all flows from the top. Nutting obviously does not care about winning. Nor does NH. Nor does Hurdle. The Pirates had to overcome their own manager to win the game.
Tell it like it is, Brother Bobster!
Hurdle's explanation is troubling. Per the Trib:
“You’ll hear, they’ll get four days off (for the All-Star Game),” Hurdle said. “Yeah, if you don’t break them by pitching them the one extra time.
“We gambled. We pitched the way we pitched. We planned it. We followed it. Tanner was the guy to get the ball.”
It shows that he is so obsessed with resting players that he fears they could "break" if they pitched 1 more time before the AS break. So with that in mind, he decided on a plan that Anderson would have to pitch and followed it. Predictably, the rookie who was hit hard in LA immediately gave up a run in the 10th while better pitchers sat and watched. But that was the plan and Hurdle was not going to stray from it. Resting players was important. Winning was not. It all flows from the top. Nutting obviously does not care about winning. Nor does NH. Nor does Hurdle. The Pirates had to overcome their own manager to win the game.
Tell it like it is, Brother Bobster!