757C74656B110 wrote: Theres a commonality with the guys that were successful here. They were successful before. That includes Melancon.
Even Happ was at least a legit ML starter in his career. Freese too.
There's a commonality with the guys that failed. They were basically never has beens
If he wants to start signing guys who were at least good at some point in their careers, I'm fine with that.
Hudson (2011), Bedard (2006-7), Frieri (2012-13), Barmes (2008), Overbay (2004, 6), McGehee (2010), Barajas (long career but age 36 when obtained) and Sanchez (2010) all had enjoyed successful seasons in the past. All of them were good at some point in their careers.
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Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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JollyRoger
- Posts: 1469
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756D6F68687F6E69747563060 wrote: Ok, at least you have a reason. Not sure I agree. I do give Huntington the benefit of the doubt based on how bad the system was when he took over. I did expect more time to make the team into a winner. I understand if others don't think that way.
Hurdle does have a winning record as the Pirates' manager. In seven years he has had three winning seasons and an overall winning percentage of .515*. (*Baseball Reference)
Very bad season endings in 2011 and 2012. I am not sure what happened those years, but I kind of chalk those seasons up as rebuilding years. Yes, the last two years have been bad. Hurdle should be better, but watching the playoffs and all these moves, every manager seems to do some bad strategies/moves. Even the "best" ones.
I do think Huntington did a very good job by surrounding McCutchen with talent. One player in baseball can't do it all.
Huntington needs to draft better. That's his biggest issue in my opinion. Only a few impact (starters, successful) players through the draft. This needs to improve. But he has done it before. He was given a chance to get back to being a contender, so we will see.
Sorry Skinny; I have to agree with Dog on this. He has his facts straight; you do not
Sooooooooo you want to pick out years to help Hurdle's record look better well try this the last 2 year Hurdle has a .474 vs. his lifetime of .488. You can try and make Hurdle look better but there's no way you can make this guy into anything but a loser.
Better yet look at NH record he has a .423 record. Soooooo looks like some on here just like losing. This team future is ugly with this type of management. Nutting needs to demand better results, something I would do before I would put anymore money in this team. Time to fire the guys at the top and get some real baseball people to run this club or it's going to get uglier. You can bury your head in the sand but I chose to look at this team for what it really is, a team in need of great leadership.
What is your definition of a “real baseball person”?
If you don’t think that Hurdle is a real baseball person then what is your criteria for one?
Calling Hurdle a loser is just plain silly.
Put the blame where it should be. Squarely on Nutting.
Hurdle and NH are not the problem
Hurdle does have a winning record as the Pirates' manager. In seven years he has had three winning seasons and an overall winning percentage of .515*. (*Baseball Reference)
Very bad season endings in 2011 and 2012. I am not sure what happened those years, but I kind of chalk those seasons up as rebuilding years. Yes, the last two years have been bad. Hurdle should be better, but watching the playoffs and all these moves, every manager seems to do some bad strategies/moves. Even the "best" ones.
I do think Huntington did a very good job by surrounding McCutchen with talent. One player in baseball can't do it all.
Huntington needs to draft better. That's his biggest issue in my opinion. Only a few impact (starters, successful) players through the draft. This needs to improve. But he has done it before. He was given a chance to get back to being a contender, so we will see.
Sorry Skinny; I have to agree with Dog on this. He has his facts straight; you do not
Sooooooooo you want to pick out years to help Hurdle's record look better well try this the last 2 year Hurdle has a .474 vs. his lifetime of .488. You can try and make Hurdle look better but there's no way you can make this guy into anything but a loser.
Better yet look at NH record he has a .423 record. Soooooo looks like some on here just like losing. This team future is ugly with this type of management. Nutting needs to demand better results, something I would do before I would put anymore money in this team. Time to fire the guys at the top and get some real baseball people to run this club or it's going to get uglier. You can bury your head in the sand but I chose to look at this team for what it really is, a team in need of great leadership.
What is your definition of a “real baseball person”?
If you don’t think that Hurdle is a real baseball person then what is your criteria for one?
Calling Hurdle a loser is just plain silly.
Put the blame where it should be. Squarely on Nutting.
Hurdle and NH are not the problem
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3642
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
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6E4B48485D764B434156240 wrote: Ok, at least you have a reason. Not sure I agree. I do give Huntington the benefit of the doubt based on how bad the system was when he took over. I did expect more time to make the team into a winner. I understand if others don't think that way.
Hurdle does have a winning record as the Pirates' manager. In seven years he has had three winning seasons and an overall winning percentage of .515*. (*Baseball Reference)
Very bad season endings in 2011 and 2012. I am not sure what happened those years, but I kind of chalk those seasons up as rebuilding years. Yes, the last two years have been bad. Hurdle should be better, but watching the playoffs and all these moves, every manager seems to do some bad strategies/moves. Even the "best" ones.
I do think Huntington did a very good job by surrounding McCutchen with talent. One player in baseball can't do it all.
Huntington needs to draft better. That's his biggest issue in my opinion. Only a few impact (starters, successful) players through the draft. This needs to improve. But he has done it before. He was given a chance to get back to being a contender, so we will see.
Sorry Skinny; I have to agree with Dog on this. He has his facts straight; you do not
Sooooooooo you want to pick out years to help Hurdle's record look better well try this the last 2 year Hurdle has a .474 vs. his lifetime of .488. You can try and make Hurdle look better but there's no way you can make this guy into anything but a loser.
Better yet look at NH record he has a .423 record. Soooooo looks like some on here just like losing. This team future is ugly with this type of management. Nutting needs to demand better results, something I would do before I would put anymore money in this team. Time to fire the guys at the top and get some real baseball people to run this club or it's going to get uglier. You can bury your head in the sand but I chose to look at this team for what it really is, a team in need of great leadership.
What is your definition of a “real baseball person”?
If you don’t think that Hurdle is a real baseball person then what is your criteria for one?
Calling Hurdle a loser is just plain silly.
Put the blame where it should be. Squarely on Nutting.
Hurdle and NH are not the problem
The criteria is typically "someone new" and it doesn't matter who because the answer always seems to be to fire the manager. Typically there's no step two of that plan.
Can't wait to get a new manager in here, and when after he gets hired HE'S the worst person ever and needs fired
Hurdle does have a winning record as the Pirates' manager. In seven years he has had three winning seasons and an overall winning percentage of .515*. (*Baseball Reference)
Very bad season endings in 2011 and 2012. I am not sure what happened those years, but I kind of chalk those seasons up as rebuilding years. Yes, the last two years have been bad. Hurdle should be better, but watching the playoffs and all these moves, every manager seems to do some bad strategies/moves. Even the "best" ones.
I do think Huntington did a very good job by surrounding McCutchen with talent. One player in baseball can't do it all.
Huntington needs to draft better. That's his biggest issue in my opinion. Only a few impact (starters, successful) players through the draft. This needs to improve. But he has done it before. He was given a chance to get back to being a contender, so we will see.
Sorry Skinny; I have to agree with Dog on this. He has his facts straight; you do not
Sooooooooo you want to pick out years to help Hurdle's record look better well try this the last 2 year Hurdle has a .474 vs. his lifetime of .488. You can try and make Hurdle look better but there's no way you can make this guy into anything but a loser.
Better yet look at NH record he has a .423 record. Soooooo looks like some on here just like losing. This team future is ugly with this type of management. Nutting needs to demand better results, something I would do before I would put anymore money in this team. Time to fire the guys at the top and get some real baseball people to run this club or it's going to get uglier. You can bury your head in the sand but I chose to look at this team for what it really is, a team in need of great leadership.
What is your definition of a “real baseball person”?
If you don’t think that Hurdle is a real baseball person then what is your criteria for one?
Calling Hurdle a loser is just plain silly.
Put the blame where it should be. Squarely on Nutting.
Hurdle and NH are not the problem
The criteria is typically "someone new" and it doesn't matter who because the answer always seems to be to fire the manager. Typically there's no step two of that plan.
Can't wait to get a new manager in here, and when after he gets hired HE'S the worst person ever and needs fired
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Bobster21
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I think Hurdle is not a good manager. But unless Nutting gives NH the resources to put a better team in the dugout it won't matter who the manager is. In fact, I believe Hurdle's 4 year extension was because Nutting knows it won't make much difference who the mgr is.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3642
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
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more resources or better decision-making on how to spend them . . . either way (or preferably both)
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
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634E43525544531310210 wrote: I think Hurdle is not a good manager. But unless Nutting gives NH the resources to put a better team in the dugout it won't matter who the manager is. In fact, I believe Hurdle's 4 year extension was because Nutting knows it won't make much difference who the mgr is.
I don't think it is Nutting's call. He has said he is not a baseball man. It had to be Coonelly's and/or Huntington's call on Hurdle.
Do people think Hurdle hurt the team from 2013-2015? I am not a fan of Hurdle's strategies, but he did open my eyes on leadership and clubhouse chemistry. Of course, winning helps that chemistry too.
I don't think it is Nutting's call. He has said he is not a baseball man. It had to be Coonelly's and/or Huntington's call on Hurdle.
Do people think Hurdle hurt the team from 2013-2015? I am not a fan of Hurdle's strategies, but he did open my eyes on leadership and clubhouse chemistry. Of course, winning helps that chemistry too.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3642
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
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I think he's fine (not good not bad) and am not sure what people really expect. I think there are often things going on behind the scenes that you or I couldn't possibly know about that sometimes cause decisions that look strange on TV. I also have internal alarm bells that go off when a regular fan thinks they know more than a manager/coach/whatever.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
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0F3D31312517343D30353A3D5C0 wrote: I think he's fine (not good not bad) and am not sure what people really expect. I think there are often things going on behind the scenes that you or I couldn't possibly know about that sometimes cause decisions that look strange on TV. I also have internal alarm bells that go off when a regular fan thinks they know more than a manager/coach/whatever.
That's exactly it. I have questioned player moves, but we don't know who is really available either. It would be bad to tip your cap in that. Hurdle got snippy when asked about the bullpen this year and said something like "just ask me, I will tell you" when asked about availability. I don't want him to do that so the opponent knows too.
I just don't like gut feelings as a strategy. But again, a lot of talk/press conferences after games can't be believable. No reason to tip off the other teams.
That's exactly it. I have questioned player moves, but we don't know who is really available either. It would be bad to tip your cap in that. Hurdle got snippy when asked about the bullpen this year and said something like "just ask me, I will tell you" when asked about availability. I don't want him to do that so the opponent knows too.
I just don't like gut feelings as a strategy. But again, a lot of talk/press conferences after games can't be believable. No reason to tip off the other teams.
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Bobster21
TV Ratings
73414D4D596B48414C494641200 wrote: I think he's fine (not good not bad) and am not sure what people really expect. I think there are often things going on behind the scenes that you or I couldn't possibly know about that sometimes cause decisions that look strange on TV. I also have internal alarm bells that go off when a regular fan thinks they know more than a manager/coach/whatever.
There's a lot of truth to that. On the other hand, managers get fired. So just because they are the managers, they aren't necessarily doing the best job. Sometimes fans' complaints are warranted.
There's a lot of truth to that. On the other hand, managers get fired. So just because they are the managers, they aren't necessarily doing the best job. Sometimes fans' complaints are warranted.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3642
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
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022F22333425327271400 wrote: I think he's fine (not good not bad) and am not sure what people really expect. I think there are often things going on behind the scenes that you or I couldn't possibly know about that sometimes cause decisions that look strange on TV. I also have internal alarm bells that go off when a regular fan thinks they know more than a manager/coach/whatever.
There's a lot of truth to that. On the other hand, managers get fired. So just because they are the managers, they aren't necessarily doing the best job. Sometimes fans' complaints are warranted.
True enough. And with calls like telling a player to go or stay at third base (in a 3B coach's case) it's a spur of the moment judgment call that is clearly right or wrong. It's probably worse in football where everyone thinks they'd call better plays than the offensive coordinator.
There's a lot of truth to that. On the other hand, managers get fired. So just because they are the managers, they aren't necessarily doing the best job. Sometimes fans' complaints are warranted.
True enough. And with calls like telling a player to go or stay at third base (in a 3B coach's case) it's a spur of the moment judgment call that is clearly right or wrong. It's probably worse in football where everyone thinks they'd call better plays than the offensive coordinator.