4D507476781D0 wrote:
Cole had a better year 2 years ago than any Quintana has had. Cole has better stuff and has been way more dominant than Quintana. He also has much higher upside. Quintana is really good. The best thing about his is that he is consistent. Low three ERA every year. He But, he doesn't strike people out and relies on ground balls.
So in a one game playoff would you want Cole or Q? Not trying to ask a loaded question, I think it really is an interesting choice between consistency and potential.
Nova
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Nova
15082C2E20450 wrote: I like this deal. I really like this deal, actually. Cole-Taillon-Nova should form a solid 1-3. I would love to get Quintana. I just don't want to give anything up to get him. Don't the White Sox know they are just supposed to give him to us? That's how this works! That would make a solid 1-4 with Kuhl keeping the fifth spot warm until Glasnow is ready, which should give us a solid 1-5.
Haha. However, now a trade involving Glasnow doesn't seem as out of the question considering Nova and Quintana would be locking up rotation spots for several years.
I know...but Glasnow has a chance to be REALLY good, like Cy Young worthy good. I don't see that for Quintana. I see Quintana as a #2 starter. I realize people have different definitions of what that means, but what it means for me is that if you were to take 150 starters across MLB and rank them, 1-30 would be your #1s. 31-60 #2s and so on and so forth. I see Quintana in that 31-60 range. I see Glasnow as potentially being listed among the very best in the game at some point in the not too distant future. Will he be Bumgarner or Kershaw? I don't know. But, I think he's got a better shot of getting there than Quintana. Personally, I don't trade that guy.
I agree. Andrew Fillipponi (on the FAN radio station) today was claiming that Quintana would slot in as the Pirates new ace and Cole would slide down. That is just categorically wrong. Cole had a better year 2 years ago than any Quintana has had. Cole has better stuff and has been way more dominant than Quintana. He also has much higher upside. Quintana is really good. The best thing about his is that he is consistent. Low three ERA every year. He But, he doesn't strike people out and relies on ground balls. That is not ace sorts of stuff. I would actually argue that Cole, Taillon and Glasnow all have more dominant stuff and higher upside than Quintana. Which is why I wouldn't not trade Glasnow for him.
I wholeheartedly agree with this. In a vacuum, Cole is better than Quintana.
Haha. However, now a trade involving Glasnow doesn't seem as out of the question considering Nova and Quintana would be locking up rotation spots for several years.
I know...but Glasnow has a chance to be REALLY good, like Cy Young worthy good. I don't see that for Quintana. I see Quintana as a #2 starter. I realize people have different definitions of what that means, but what it means for me is that if you were to take 150 starters across MLB and rank them, 1-30 would be your #1s. 31-60 #2s and so on and so forth. I see Quintana in that 31-60 range. I see Glasnow as potentially being listed among the very best in the game at some point in the not too distant future. Will he be Bumgarner or Kershaw? I don't know. But, I think he's got a better shot of getting there than Quintana. Personally, I don't trade that guy.
I agree. Andrew Fillipponi (on the FAN radio station) today was claiming that Quintana would slot in as the Pirates new ace and Cole would slide down. That is just categorically wrong. Cole had a better year 2 years ago than any Quintana has had. Cole has better stuff and has been way more dominant than Quintana. He also has much higher upside. Quintana is really good. The best thing about his is that he is consistent. Low three ERA every year. He But, he doesn't strike people out and relies on ground balls. That is not ace sorts of stuff. I would actually argue that Cole, Taillon and Glasnow all have more dominant stuff and higher upside than Quintana. Which is why I wouldn't not trade Glasnow for him.
I wholeheartedly agree with this. In a vacuum, Cole is better than Quintana.
Nova
If you want to acquire talent through trades, you've got to be willing to offer real value for that talent. Quintana, because of both his talent and his contract, warrants any team that wants him to pony up.
The Bucs need to offer some real talent to headline the deal. In my opinion, its more important for the Bucs to hang onto Meadows and Keller than Glasnow in a trade for Quintana. In saying this, I view a rotation of Cole, Tallion, Quintana and Nova as a decent top 4, and believe that some combo of Kuhl, Hutchinson and Kingham (post July) can add good depth and a #5. And, 2 years from now, Keller can help replace Cole.
But, if the Bucs can get Quintana by offering some combo of Bell, Hayes, Turner, Rivero and Hearn, then by all means, hang onto Glasnow.
Regardless of how a Quintana deal does or does not shake out, its good to be talking about such options.
And lastly, if NH can acquire Hudson, Nova and Quintana all in a week, he certainly understands the spirit of Christmas.
The Bucs need to offer some real talent to headline the deal. In my opinion, its more important for the Bucs to hang onto Meadows and Keller than Glasnow in a trade for Quintana. In saying this, I view a rotation of Cole, Tallion, Quintana and Nova as a decent top 4, and believe that some combo of Kuhl, Hutchinson and Kingham (post July) can add good depth and a #5. And, 2 years from now, Keller can help replace Cole.
But, if the Bucs can get Quintana by offering some combo of Bell, Hayes, Turner, Rivero and Hearn, then by all means, hang onto Glasnow.
Regardless of how a Quintana deal does or does not shake out, its good to be talking about such options.
And lastly, if NH can acquire Hudson, Nova and Quintana all in a week, he certainly understands the spirit of Christmas.
Nova
6C40484F4463544252210 wrote: If you want to acquire talent through trades, you've got to be willing to offer real value for that talent. Quintana, because of both his talent and his contract, warrants any team that wants him to pony up.
The Bucs need to offer some real talent to headline the deal. In my opinion, its more important for the Bucs to hang onto Meadows and Keller than Glasnow in a trade for Quintana. In saying this, I view a rotation of Cole, Tallion, Quintana and Nova as a decent top 4, and believe that some combo of Kuhl, Hutchinson and Kingham (post July) can add good depth and a #5. And, 2 years from now, Keller can help replace Cole.
But, if the Bucs can get Quintana by offering some combo of Bell, Hayes, Turner, Rivero and Hearn, then by all means, hang onto Glasnow.
Regardless of how a Quintana deal does or does not shake out, its good to be talking about such options.
And lastly, if NH can acquire Hudson, Nova and Quintana all in a week, he certainly understands the spirit of Christmas.
Do one of Glasnow, Meadows, Bell, Polanco HAVE to be in the trade? Do two of those guys HAVE to be in the trade? If it were up to me, I'd give up anyone other than those 4.
How much value to Kuhl have? I didn't realize how consistently "really good" he had been all through the minors. He doesn't have blazing stuff, but has always been able to get the job done. 2.75 minor league ERA. Doesn't strike a ton of guys out, but doesn't give up a lot of hits or walks. Also doesn't give up many HRs.
Could he be paired with Newman to get much back? Newman, Hayes, Kuhl, and Y Garcia? This is more of a question than something realistic. No one has mentioned Kuhl's name around this trade.
The Bucs need to offer some real talent to headline the deal. In my opinion, its more important for the Bucs to hang onto Meadows and Keller than Glasnow in a trade for Quintana. In saying this, I view a rotation of Cole, Tallion, Quintana and Nova as a decent top 4, and believe that some combo of Kuhl, Hutchinson and Kingham (post July) can add good depth and a #5. And, 2 years from now, Keller can help replace Cole.
But, if the Bucs can get Quintana by offering some combo of Bell, Hayes, Turner, Rivero and Hearn, then by all means, hang onto Glasnow.
Regardless of how a Quintana deal does or does not shake out, its good to be talking about such options.
And lastly, if NH can acquire Hudson, Nova and Quintana all in a week, he certainly understands the spirit of Christmas.
Do one of Glasnow, Meadows, Bell, Polanco HAVE to be in the trade? Do two of those guys HAVE to be in the trade? If it were up to me, I'd give up anyone other than those 4.
How much value to Kuhl have? I didn't realize how consistently "really good" he had been all through the minors. He doesn't have blazing stuff, but has always been able to get the job done. 2.75 minor league ERA. Doesn't strike a ton of guys out, but doesn't give up a lot of hits or walks. Also doesn't give up many HRs.
Could he be paired with Newman to get much back? Newman, Hayes, Kuhl, and Y Garcia? This is more of a question than something realistic. No one has mentioned Kuhl's name around this trade.
Nova
675559594D7F5C55585D5255340 wrote:
Cole had a better year 2 years ago than any Quintana has had. Cole has better stuff and has been way more dominant than Quintana. He also has much higher upside. Quintana is really good. The best thing about his is that he is consistent. Low three ERA every year. He But, he doesn't strike people out and relies on ground balls.
So in a one game playoff would you want Cole or Q? Not trying to ask a loaded question, I think it really is an interesting choice between consistency and potential.
Depends on the team, I think. For instance, I'd probably take Quintana against the Cubs, if for no other reason being left-handed gives him an advantage over Rizzo and Schwarber. (Come to think of it...maybe this is why we're loading up on so many lefty relievers.) But, I'd say for most teams, I'd take Cole.
Cole had a better year 2 years ago than any Quintana has had. Cole has better stuff and has been way more dominant than Quintana. He also has much higher upside. Quintana is really good. The best thing about his is that he is consistent. Low three ERA every year. He But, he doesn't strike people out and relies on ground balls.
So in a one game playoff would you want Cole or Q? Not trying to ask a loaded question, I think it really is an interesting choice between consistency and potential.
Depends on the team, I think. For instance, I'd probably take Quintana against the Cubs, if for no other reason being left-handed gives him an advantage over Rizzo and Schwarber. (Come to think of it...maybe this is why we're loading up on so many lefty relievers.) But, I'd say for most teams, I'd take Cole.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Nova
675559594D7F5C55585D5255340 wrote:
Cole had a better year 2 years ago than any Quintana has had. Cole has better stuff and has been way more dominant than Quintana. He also has much higher upside. Quintana is really good. The best thing about his is that he is consistent. Low three ERA every year. He But, he doesn't strike people out and relies on ground balls.
So in a one game playoff would you want Cole or Q? Not trying to ask a loaded question, I think it really is an interesting choice between consistency and potential.
You need to go with the best pitcher at that time. The Pirates messed that up when Volquez went over Cole in the Wild Card Game knowing there was a better chance of the Wild Card than the Division.
(I know they ran into Bumgarner, but there was no fear in facing Volquez)
Cole had a better year 2 years ago than any Quintana has had. Cole has better stuff and has been way more dominant than Quintana. He also has much higher upside. Quintana is really good. The best thing about his is that he is consistent. Low three ERA every year. He But, he doesn't strike people out and relies on ground balls.
So in a one game playoff would you want Cole or Q? Not trying to ask a loaded question, I think it really is an interesting choice between consistency and potential.
You need to go with the best pitcher at that time. The Pirates messed that up when Volquez went over Cole in the Wild Card Game knowing there was a better chance of the Wild Card than the Division.
(I know they ran into Bumgarner, but there was no fear in facing Volquez)
Nova
7C4E42425664474E4346494E2F0 wrote:
Cole had a better year 2 years ago than any Quintana has had. Cole has better stuff and has been way more dominant than Quintana. He also has much higher upside. Quintana is really good. The best thing about his is that he is consistent. Low three ERA every year. He But, he doesn't strike people out and relies on ground balls.
So in a one game playoff would you want Cole or Q? Not trying to ask a loaded question, I think it really is an interesting choice between consistency and potential.
You are exactly right. For me, that's part of the question for this trade. When it comes down to those short series and you need guys to match up against the Bumgarners/Kershaws/Syndergaard/etc., who do you want? Personally, I'd want Cole. Maybe Taillon by the end of this year. I don't see that dominant pitcher in Quintana. Glasnow has that capability. So does Keller. That's why you can't trade those guys. There are so few of them.
Cole had a better year 2 years ago than any Quintana has had. Cole has better stuff and has been way more dominant than Quintana. He also has much higher upside. Quintana is really good. The best thing about his is that he is consistent. Low three ERA every year. He But, he doesn't strike people out and relies on ground balls.
So in a one game playoff would you want Cole or Q? Not trying to ask a loaded question, I think it really is an interesting choice between consistency and potential.
You are exactly right. For me, that's part of the question for this trade. When it comes down to those short series and you need guys to match up against the Bumgarners/Kershaws/Syndergaard/etc., who do you want? Personally, I'd want Cole. Maybe Taillon by the end of this year. I don't see that dominant pitcher in Quintana. Glasnow has that capability. So does Keller. That's why you can't trade those guys. There are so few of them.
Nova
Quintana had 13 or 14 starts last year where he gave up one or zero runs.
Cole did about the same in 2015 if you only count earned runs.
Quintana's had pretty good results with a mediocre team. He would be a good acquisition depending on cost.
If the Bucs think Glasnow can put everything together and be a top pitcher this year then there is much urgency to acquire Quintana. If the Bucs think Glasnow is more of a 50-50 chance of being a dominant pitcher (and if they think it might take a couple more years for that to happen) then I could see him being dealt.
Cole did about the same in 2015 if you only count earned runs.
Quintana's had pretty good results with a mediocre team. He would be a good acquisition depending on cost.
If the Bucs think Glasnow can put everything together and be a top pitcher this year then there is much urgency to acquire Quintana. If the Bucs think Glasnow is more of a 50-50 chance of being a dominant pitcher (and if they think it might take a couple more years for that to happen) then I could see him being dealt.