In the 5/12 game thread a great discussion of who will be here on this team next year and beyond.
Things seem to point toward the usual frugalness on the part of Nutting. He won't spend to bring in a first-rate FA.
I ask you all to comment specifically on the needs for pitching as well as hitting.
Do they sign Keller to a long-term extension?
Do you draft the pitcher Skenes from LSU or his stable mate slugger Crews in the first round of this year's draft?
What do they do with Cruz when he comes back and is healthy? Do they live with his Ks and lower BA because of his awesome power? What about his defense?
Will Nick Gonzales be ready to man 2B? What about Endy and Henry at catcher/dh/outfield?
What about Quinn Priester on the pitching side? What about the other young pitchers in the rotation now?
The Future . . .
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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WildwoodDave2
The Future . . .
5B7A725B70781F0 wrote: In the 5/12 game thread a great discussion of who will be here on this team next year and beyond.
Things seem to point toward the usual frugalness on the part of Nutting. He won't spend to bring in a first-rate FA.
I ask you all to comment specifically on the needs for pitching as well as hitting.
Do they sign Keller to a long-term extension?
Do you draft the pitcher Skenes from LSU or his stable mate slugger Crews in the first round of this year's draft?
What do they do with Cruz when he comes back and is healthy? Do they live with his Ks and lower BA because of his awesome power? What about his defense?
Will Nick Gonzales be ready to man 2B? What about Endy and Henry at catcher/dh/outfield?
What about Quinn Priester on the pitching side? What about the other young pitchers in the rotation now?
Slow down Possum, you are making my head spin.
I will comment on two of them. I would wait until the end of the season concerning Keller. I would go for Crews. We need to score runs.
Things seem to point toward the usual frugalness on the part of Nutting. He won't spend to bring in a first-rate FA.
I ask you all to comment specifically on the needs for pitching as well as hitting.
Do they sign Keller to a long-term extension?
Do you draft the pitcher Skenes from LSU or his stable mate slugger Crews in the first round of this year's draft?
What do they do with Cruz when he comes back and is healthy? Do they live with his Ks and lower BA because of his awesome power? What about his defense?
Will Nick Gonzales be ready to man 2B? What about Endy and Henry at catcher/dh/outfield?
What about Quinn Priester on the pitching side? What about the other young pitchers in the rotation now?
Slow down Possum, you are making my head spin.
I will comment on two of them. I would wait until the end of the season concerning Keller. I would go for Crews. We need to score runs.
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2drfischer@gmail.c
The Future . . .
Great idea for a thread, Possum.
To answer your one question, pitching has to be addressed first. It’s nearly impossible to win without it. That’s not to say I’d draft the best pitcher. That position seems to have the most failure of any others.
I’d like to respond to your post in more general terms. One thing that history under Nutting has shown us is that he’ll never pursue top free agents like a Judge, Harper or Verlander. It’s not likely he’ll even give permission to sign second tier guys, either. The Pirates have to try to win by drafting, signing, and trading for young talent because they’re the least-expensive labor resources.
When these young guys are signed, and most likely for their first year or two in Pittsburgh, it won’t be known for sure if they’ll be good major league players who can help win a title. It’s the rare player who shows a star quality quickly. So all we can hope for as Pirates fans is that the GM and his staff acquire the best talent they can and then develop those guys so that they can reach their maximum potential. The failure rate is fairly high but that’s the way the Pirates will do it under the current owner. They’ll never buy themselves a chance.
I want to believe that Endy Rodriquez, Nick Gonzales, Henry Davis, Termarr Johnson, Quinn Priester, and all the others will lift the Pirates to the top level of teams. All we have to go on is how they play in the minor leagues. While we can see evidence of their physical skills, it’s whether or not they can meet the mental challenges that we can never be sure of, and is perhaps more important.
Baseball is really hard. Some guys who were ticketed for stardom washed out, yet there have been guys who were drafted really late who found their way to All Star careers. Who could ever know when those guys were signing their first contracts?
To answer your one question, pitching has to be addressed first. It’s nearly impossible to win without it. That’s not to say I’d draft the best pitcher. That position seems to have the most failure of any others.
I’d like to respond to your post in more general terms. One thing that history under Nutting has shown us is that he’ll never pursue top free agents like a Judge, Harper or Verlander. It’s not likely he’ll even give permission to sign second tier guys, either. The Pirates have to try to win by drafting, signing, and trading for young talent because they’re the least-expensive labor resources.
When these young guys are signed, and most likely for their first year or two in Pittsburgh, it won’t be known for sure if they’ll be good major league players who can help win a title. It’s the rare player who shows a star quality quickly. So all we can hope for as Pirates fans is that the GM and his staff acquire the best talent they can and then develop those guys so that they can reach their maximum potential. The failure rate is fairly high but that’s the way the Pirates will do it under the current owner. They’ll never buy themselves a chance.
I want to believe that Endy Rodriquez, Nick Gonzales, Henry Davis, Termarr Johnson, Quinn Priester, and all the others will lift the Pirates to the top level of teams. All we have to go on is how they play in the minor leagues. While we can see evidence of their physical skills, it’s whether or not they can meet the mental challenges that we can never be sure of, and is perhaps more important.
Baseball is really hard. Some guys who were ticketed for stardom washed out, yet there have been guys who were drafted really late who found their way to All Star careers. Who could ever know when those guys were signing their first contracts?
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
The Future . . .
17363E173C34530 wrote: In the 5/12 game thread a great discussion of who will be here on this team next year and beyond.
Things seem to point toward the usual frugalness on the part of Nutting. He won't spend to bring in a first-rate FA.
I ask you all to comment specifically on the needs for pitching as well as hitting.
Do they sign Keller to a long-term extension?
Do you draft the pitcher Skenes from LSU or his stable mate slugger Crews in the first round of this year's draft?
What do they do with Cruz when he comes back and is healthy? Do they live with his Ks and lower BA because of his awesome power? What about his defense?
Will Nick Gonzales be ready to man 2B? What about Endy and Henry at catcher/dh/outfield?
What about Quinn Priester on the pitching side? What about the other young pitchers in the rotation now?
First, we need to agree on terms. Some think that all extensions are the same. They're not.
Like many teams, the Pirates have, and I expect will continue to offer, and make "extensions." But, most haven't been true extensions.
Most have only covered the players' arbitration years. That's because that's how long a team has the player under contract, regardless.
That's why I saw the Reynolds extension as important. It went beyond that minimum coverage.
For any team to be truly successful, it must have a roster of more talent and more experienced players. Staying only with pre-arbs and arbitration-eligible players is possible to field a championship-level roster, but not likely. The competition at that stage is intense, as the Rays recently learned. They gave it all they had. Their opponent had more.
No, I do not think that the Pirates will go beyond arbitration years with Keller. For now, I agree with Surg's recent thought that we shouldn't. He's not as predictable as Reynolds, in my opinion. I hope that I'm wrong.
I want to see more from Cruz before I would think of extending him beyond his arbitration years. His track record is short. He has to improve in some ways.
I would extend Bednar beyond arbitration, but I wonder if Closer is our most pressing need.
No one else comes to mind immediately.
Things seem to point toward the usual frugalness on the part of Nutting. He won't spend to bring in a first-rate FA.
I ask you all to comment specifically on the needs for pitching as well as hitting.
Do they sign Keller to a long-term extension?
Do you draft the pitcher Skenes from LSU or his stable mate slugger Crews in the first round of this year's draft?
What do they do with Cruz when he comes back and is healthy? Do they live with his Ks and lower BA because of his awesome power? What about his defense?
Will Nick Gonzales be ready to man 2B? What about Endy and Henry at catcher/dh/outfield?
What about Quinn Priester on the pitching side? What about the other young pitchers in the rotation now?
First, we need to agree on terms. Some think that all extensions are the same. They're not.
Like many teams, the Pirates have, and I expect will continue to offer, and make "extensions." But, most haven't been true extensions.
Most have only covered the players' arbitration years. That's because that's how long a team has the player under contract, regardless.
That's why I saw the Reynolds extension as important. It went beyond that minimum coverage.
For any team to be truly successful, it must have a roster of more talent and more experienced players. Staying only with pre-arbs and arbitration-eligible players is possible to field a championship-level roster, but not likely. The competition at that stage is intense, as the Rays recently learned. They gave it all they had. Their opponent had more.
No, I do not think that the Pirates will go beyond arbitration years with Keller. For now, I agree with Surg's recent thought that we shouldn't. He's not as predictable as Reynolds, in my opinion. I hope that I'm wrong.
I want to see more from Cruz before I would think of extending him beyond his arbitration years. His track record is short. He has to improve in some ways.
I would extend Bednar beyond arbitration, but I wonder if Closer is our most pressing need.
No one else comes to mind immediately.
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WildwoodDave2
The Future . . .
7B2D3B2F203A2A212C3B092E24282025672A490 wrote: Great idea for a thread, Possum.
To answer your one question, pitching has to be addressed first. It’s nearly impossible to win without it. That’s not to say I’d draft the best pitcher. That position seems to have the most failure of any others.
I’d like to respond to your post in more general terms. One thing that history under Nutting has shown us is that he’ll never pursue top free agents like a Judge, Harper or Verlander. It’s not likely he’ll even give permission to sign second tier guys, either. The Pirates have to try to win by drafting, signing, and trading for young talent because they’re the least-expensive labor resources.
When these young guys are signed, and most likely for their first year or two in Pittsburgh, it won’t be known for sure if they’ll be good major league players who can help win a title. It’s the rare player who shows a star quality quickly. So all we can hope for as Pirates fans is that the GM and his staff acquire the best talent they can and then develop those guys so that they can reach their maximum potential. The failure rate is fairly high but that’s the way the Pirates will do it under the current owner. They’ll never buy themselves a chance.
I want to believe that Endy Rodriquez, Nick Gonzales, Henry Davis, Termarr Johnson, Quinn Priester, and all the others will lift the Pirates to the top level of teams. All we have to go on is how they play in the minor leagues. While we can see evidence of their physical skills, it’s whether or not they can meet the mental challenges that we can never be sure of, and is perhaps more important.
Baseball is really hard. Some guys who were ticketed for stardom washed out, yet there have been guys who were drafted really late who found their way to All Star careers. Who could ever know when those guys were signing their first contracts?
I will always remember an interview concerning long time
general manager, Joe L. Brown. He was asked if he had to make a choice between a 20 +game winner ( I know they are few and far
between now) and a position player who hits 300 with 30 Hr's and 100 RBI's who would he choose. He said without question the Position Player Her was then asked. what if the Pitcher was Warren Spahn, Sandy Kofax or Juan Marichal ? Brown jokingly said " I want both but if I could only have one, I want the position player who plays every day"
To answer your one question, pitching has to be addressed first. It’s nearly impossible to win without it. That’s not to say I’d draft the best pitcher. That position seems to have the most failure of any others.
I’d like to respond to your post in more general terms. One thing that history under Nutting has shown us is that he’ll never pursue top free agents like a Judge, Harper or Verlander. It’s not likely he’ll even give permission to sign second tier guys, either. The Pirates have to try to win by drafting, signing, and trading for young talent because they’re the least-expensive labor resources.
When these young guys are signed, and most likely for their first year or two in Pittsburgh, it won’t be known for sure if they’ll be good major league players who can help win a title. It’s the rare player who shows a star quality quickly. So all we can hope for as Pirates fans is that the GM and his staff acquire the best talent they can and then develop those guys so that they can reach their maximum potential. The failure rate is fairly high but that’s the way the Pirates will do it under the current owner. They’ll never buy themselves a chance.
I want to believe that Endy Rodriquez, Nick Gonzales, Henry Davis, Termarr Johnson, Quinn Priester, and all the others will lift the Pirates to the top level of teams. All we have to go on is how they play in the minor leagues. While we can see evidence of their physical skills, it’s whether or not they can meet the mental challenges that we can never be sure of, and is perhaps more important.
Baseball is really hard. Some guys who were ticketed for stardom washed out, yet there have been guys who were drafted really late who found their way to All Star careers. Who could ever know when those guys were signing their first contracts?
I will always remember an interview concerning long time
general manager, Joe L. Brown. He was asked if he had to make a choice between a 20 +game winner ( I know they are few and far
between now) and a position player who hits 300 with 30 Hr's and 100 RBI's who would he choose. He said without question the Position Player Her was then asked. what if the Pitcher was Warren Spahn, Sandy Kofax or Juan Marichal ? Brown jokingly said " I want both but if I could only have one, I want the position player who plays every day"
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WildwoodDave2
The Future . . .
724C4941524A4A416144534017250 wrote: Great idea for a thread, Possum.
To answer your one question, pitching has to be addressed first. It’s nearly impossible to win without it. That’s not to say I’d draft the best pitcher. That position seems to have the most failure of any others.
I’d like to respond to your post in more general terms. One thing that history under Nutting has shown us is that he’ll never pursue top free agents like a Judge, Harper or Verlander. It’s not likely he’ll even give permission to sign second tier guys, either. The Pirates have to try to win by drafting, signing, and trading for young talent because they’re the least-expensive labor resources.
When these young guys are signed, and most likely for their first year or two in Pittsburgh, it won’t be known for sure if they’ll be good major league players who can help win a title. It’s the rare player who shows a star quality quickly. So all we can hope for as Pirates fans is that the GM and his staff acquire the best talent they can and then develop those guys so that they can reach their maximum potential. The failure rate is fairly high but that’s the way the Pirates will do it under the current owner. They’ll never buy themselves a chance.
I want to believe that Endy Rodriquez, Nick Gonzales, Henry Davis, Termarr Johnson, Quinn Priester, and all the others will lift the Pirates to the top level of teams. All we have to go on is how they play in the minor leagues. While we can see evidence of their physical skills, it’s whether or not they can meet the mental challenges that we can never be sure of, and is perhaps more important.
Baseball is really hard. Some guys who were ticketed for stardom washed out, yet there have been guys who were drafted really late who found their way to All Star careers. Who could ever know when those guys were signing their first contracts?
I will always remember an interview concerning long time
general manager, Joe L. Brown. He was asked if he had to make a choice between a 20 +game winner ( I know they are few and far
between now) and a position player who hits 300 with 30 Hr's and 100 RBI's who would he choose. He said without question the Position Player Her was then asked. what if the Pitcher was Warren Spahn, Sandy Kofax or Juan Marichal ? Brown jokingly said " I want both but if I could only have one, I want the position player who plays every day"
Of course if Shelton is the manager, he would have to get two days off a week
To answer your one question, pitching has to be addressed first. It’s nearly impossible to win without it. That’s not to say I’d draft the best pitcher. That position seems to have the most failure of any others.
I’d like to respond to your post in more general terms. One thing that history under Nutting has shown us is that he’ll never pursue top free agents like a Judge, Harper or Verlander. It’s not likely he’ll even give permission to sign second tier guys, either. The Pirates have to try to win by drafting, signing, and trading for young talent because they’re the least-expensive labor resources.
When these young guys are signed, and most likely for their first year or two in Pittsburgh, it won’t be known for sure if they’ll be good major league players who can help win a title. It’s the rare player who shows a star quality quickly. So all we can hope for as Pirates fans is that the GM and his staff acquire the best talent they can and then develop those guys so that they can reach their maximum potential. The failure rate is fairly high but that’s the way the Pirates will do it under the current owner. They’ll never buy themselves a chance.
I want to believe that Endy Rodriquez, Nick Gonzales, Henry Davis, Termarr Johnson, Quinn Priester, and all the others will lift the Pirates to the top level of teams. All we have to go on is how they play in the minor leagues. While we can see evidence of their physical skills, it’s whether or not they can meet the mental challenges that we can never be sure of, and is perhaps more important.
Baseball is really hard. Some guys who were ticketed for stardom washed out, yet there have been guys who were drafted really late who found their way to All Star careers. Who could ever know when those guys were signing their first contracts?
I will always remember an interview concerning long time
general manager, Joe L. Brown. He was asked if he had to make a choice between a 20 +game winner ( I know they are few and far
between now) and a position player who hits 300 with 30 Hr's and 100 RBI's who would he choose. He said without question the Position Player Her was then asked. what if the Pitcher was Warren Spahn, Sandy Kofax or Juan Marichal ? Brown jokingly said " I want both but if I could only have one, I want the position player who plays every day"
Of course if Shelton is the manager, he would have to get two days off a week
The Future . . .
We are the Pirates. This team will never sign a high priced free agent from another team to a long term contract. As noted earlier in this thread, the Pirates will have to do it through the draft, astute trades, player development, and making good decisions on when to sign their own players to extensions.
1. I have advocating signing both Keller and Contreras to extensions. There are inherent risks with signing one or both to longer term deals, but I'm of the opinion that the rapidly escalating cost of good pitching makes it a risk worth taking.
2. I don't know much about the draft or college baseball except for the little bit that I read. That said, I go with Crews.
3. Regarding Cruz, don't bring him back until he is healthy and ready. Need to ensure that his ankle is up to the rigors of playing shortstop. Also, his power seemed to be lacking before he was hurt. To me, it almost seemed that he was sacrificing power in an attempt to cut down on strike-outs.
4. While I was not sold on Cruz as a long-term option at SS, his loss has resulted in an underperforming carousel of players at SS. I'm not sure who is the best option at SS, but I would not waste one more at-bat on Owens. Castro, Bae, and Marcano have all shown flaws, but all of them are 24 or younger. I would like them to pick one and give them a consistent run of 15 games or so to see how they do.
5. One of my on-going concerns is the dearth of power at the corner infield positions. Hayes is a great defensive player, but 1 home run through a quarter of the season is really concerning. While I like Santana's hustle, enthusiasm, and defense, 2 home runs is not the mantra for a clean-up hitter. The Pirates need some sock from one of these positions. If Cruz's ankle affects his mobility, they should consider a move to first.
6. And now that the early season euphoria seems like a distant memory, this season appears to regressing to the transition year that many expected before the season began. So ---
There is more duff on the current roster than one would expect for a winning team. Owings, Andujar, and the outfielder whose name begins with 'P' could be dfa'd tomorrow and no one would notice.
If another team is in desperate need for a catcher, offer Hedges and even be willing to pay part of his salary. Connor Joe has had a great run (I still don't understand why they remove him for Bae at the end of games), but if the Bucs continue to flounder, see what he could command in a trade.
In short, we're sadly nearing the territory of deadline trading, and not because we're looking to add talent for the stretch run.
1. I have advocating signing both Keller and Contreras to extensions. There are inherent risks with signing one or both to longer term deals, but I'm of the opinion that the rapidly escalating cost of good pitching makes it a risk worth taking.
2. I don't know much about the draft or college baseball except for the little bit that I read. That said, I go with Crews.
3. Regarding Cruz, don't bring him back until he is healthy and ready. Need to ensure that his ankle is up to the rigors of playing shortstop. Also, his power seemed to be lacking before he was hurt. To me, it almost seemed that he was sacrificing power in an attempt to cut down on strike-outs.
4. While I was not sold on Cruz as a long-term option at SS, his loss has resulted in an underperforming carousel of players at SS. I'm not sure who is the best option at SS, but I would not waste one more at-bat on Owens. Castro, Bae, and Marcano have all shown flaws, but all of them are 24 or younger. I would like them to pick one and give them a consistent run of 15 games or so to see how they do.
5. One of my on-going concerns is the dearth of power at the corner infield positions. Hayes is a great defensive player, but 1 home run through a quarter of the season is really concerning. While I like Santana's hustle, enthusiasm, and defense, 2 home runs is not the mantra for a clean-up hitter. The Pirates need some sock from one of these positions. If Cruz's ankle affects his mobility, they should consider a move to first.
6. And now that the early season euphoria seems like a distant memory, this season appears to regressing to the transition year that many expected before the season began. So ---
There is more duff on the current roster than one would expect for a winning team. Owings, Andujar, and the outfielder whose name begins with 'P' could be dfa'd tomorrow and no one would notice.
If another team is in desperate need for a catcher, offer Hedges and even be willing to pay part of his salary. Connor Joe has had a great run (I still don't understand why they remove him for Bae at the end of games), but if the Bucs continue to flounder, see what he could command in a trade.
In short, we're sadly nearing the territory of deadline trading, and not because we're looking to add talent for the stretch run.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
The Future . . .
There is no way that I would extend either Keller or Contreras beyond Year 3 of arbitration. That would be my max for them.
I didn't expect this year to be anything close to any "run," so it's only obvious that it's not that level of roster yet. It's getting closer, though.
Which leads to my agreement with Bobster: The team should be operated as if it was. ST ended month ago. Screw auditions. Set everyday players, even though some will leave. They're going to leave, anyway.
This team could win the division. I don't expect it.
This team might finish last. I don't expect it.
It could finish anywhere between. That's likely.
But, after four years, we should operate more like a team that's challenging for a better result rather than experimenting.
I didn't expect this year to be anything close to any "run," so it's only obvious that it's not that level of roster yet. It's getting closer, though.
Which leads to my agreement with Bobster: The team should be operated as if it was. ST ended month ago. Screw auditions. Set everyday players, even though some will leave. They're going to leave, anyway.
This team could win the division. I don't expect it.
This team might finish last. I don't expect it.
It could finish anywhere between. That's likely.
But, after four years, we should operate more like a team that's challenging for a better result rather than experimenting.
The Future . . .
Keller's first free agent year will be when he turns 30. Unless the team wants to take an enormous risk by signing him to a mega contract of 9 or more years, there's no way he's extended.
He has two arbitration years left. In no world do I see him signing a contract that only goes one or two years into his FA years.
IMHO, Keller will go through the arb process years, then hit the FA market at his age 30 year looking for a long term deal. That's the way players his age do things. It doesn't benefit Keller to extend and give the Pirates a year or two of FA, then hit the market that much older. Not to mention, the risk he takes. The risk for the Pirates would be shelling out a lot of cash for a lot of years for someone who has yet to complete an entire season of work at his current level.
Contreras and Oviedo are the ones to target. However, Contreras may have a bad taste in his mouth when he was sent back down to the minors, which for all intents and purposes was to possibly prevent reaching Super Two status. There is less risk trying to extend these guys because most of the money will be avoiding the arbitration process, and maybe getting a year or two of FA from them. That would put the two of them on the market again roughly in their age 30 years, where they can still get the mega contract.
There is absolutely no other position player on the roster right now that I would think of extending, other than Cruz. Sadly, he'll have to show he had no effects from a really bad injury. Guys like Suwinski, Castro, Bae are looking to be the kind of guys who will have nice careers, sign a couple of short term FA contracts here and there. But they're not the guys that you build a team around, which is what you're doing when you hand out long term extensions. Those guys are like the majority of major league players, they're the rice in the burrito, not the steak.
Contreras, Oviedo, Cruz are the guys I focus on right now. Maybe Keller will reward the Pirates sticking with him, that would be great. But the business is still the business, and Keller is on the wrong side of the age timeline right now.
He has two arbitration years left. In no world do I see him signing a contract that only goes one or two years into his FA years.
IMHO, Keller will go through the arb process years, then hit the FA market at his age 30 year looking for a long term deal. That's the way players his age do things. It doesn't benefit Keller to extend and give the Pirates a year or two of FA, then hit the market that much older. Not to mention, the risk he takes. The risk for the Pirates would be shelling out a lot of cash for a lot of years for someone who has yet to complete an entire season of work at his current level.
Contreras and Oviedo are the ones to target. However, Contreras may have a bad taste in his mouth when he was sent back down to the minors, which for all intents and purposes was to possibly prevent reaching Super Two status. There is less risk trying to extend these guys because most of the money will be avoiding the arbitration process, and maybe getting a year or two of FA from them. That would put the two of them on the market again roughly in their age 30 years, where they can still get the mega contract.
There is absolutely no other position player on the roster right now that I would think of extending, other than Cruz. Sadly, he'll have to show he had no effects from a really bad injury. Guys like Suwinski, Castro, Bae are looking to be the kind of guys who will have nice careers, sign a couple of short term FA contracts here and there. But they're not the guys that you build a team around, which is what you're doing when you hand out long term extensions. Those guys are like the majority of major league players, they're the rice in the burrito, not the steak.
Contreras, Oviedo, Cruz are the guys I focus on right now. Maybe Keller will reward the Pirates sticking with him, that would be great. But the business is still the business, and Keller is on the wrong side of the age timeline right now.
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Bobster21
The Future . . .
I don't think there's incentive for Keller to agree to an extension to buy out his arb years (thru 2025). It's hard to imagine the Pirates offering more than the boatload of money he would get in arbitration as an elite SP. The Pirates have control thru 2025 so there is no reason to extend him only thru then unless it's to offer less than they would pay in arb and Keller has no reason to agree to that.
Also, the Pirates never let a good player walk as a FA. They trade them with a year or so of control left to increase the trade value. So if they don't try to buy out any of his FA years, he will likely be traded at least after the 2024 season if not during 2024. So if they don't buy out any of his FA years he probably doesn't have much time left as a Pirate.
Also, the Pirates never let a good player walk as a FA. They trade them with a year or so of control left to increase the trade value. So if they don't try to buy out any of his FA years, he will likely be traded at least after the 2024 season if not during 2024. So if they don't buy out any of his FA years he probably doesn't have much time left as a Pirate.