I think we just have to wait and see how Choi does before
we start voicing opinions one way or another
Pirates to bring back out-of-town scoreboard at PNC Park
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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Bobster21
Pirates to bring back out-of-town scoreboard at PNC Park
15333421282433252D460 wrote: I don't know how you connect the scoreboard to attendance. The Pirates have been listening to fans on what takes place at the game that doesn't relate to the game.
And Choi is not a dumpster dive. I think he'll be a solid addition. It can't hurt when a guy comes from a winning culture.
Tampa essentially gave Choi away. The winning culture didn't want him. He is a career .239 hitter who's last 3 seasons have been consistent at .230, .229 and .233. His power is modest and below average for a corner infielder. He is not a good defender. And he's 32 so he's not a young guy with untapped potential. IMHO he was a quick fix at 1B with a low ceiling. Exactly what a team that claims it is rebuilding and should be getting stronger each year should not be doing. If he lasts the season, they'll be looking to upgrade that position the following year.
Pirates team OPS+84, Choi 114 (average is 100) Huge Win for Choi.
Pirates team 1B combined WAR in 2022, -4, Choi WAR 1.2, meaning he improves the team WAR at first by 5.2. Huge Win for Choi.
Pirates team BA-.222, Choi .233 Win Choi
Pirates team OBP-.291, Choi .341 HUGE Win Choi
Pirates team SLG- .364, Choi .388 Win Choi
Of all the players with as many AB's (356) as Choi, only Reynolds and Hayes had a higher batting average. So I find the three areas you chose, BA, fielding, and power, he's clearly better than practically everyone on the team, let alone far superior than any first baseman they threw out there. He'll be platooned. Chavis hit 14 HR's and had 49 RBI, all his HR's and most of his RBI at that position. Choi was 11/52 in 72 fewer AB's.
I've clearly shown Choi is an upgrade. What did you want, Rizzo? He's a stop gap, and quite honestly, IIRC you were one of the people enamored with guys like Chavis and Gamel, but Choi doesn't cut the grade?
And may I kindly so remind, Tampa plays the game on the cheap like the Pirates. He was projected 4.5 million in arbitration and Tampa needs to save money to pay for Glasnow. Dumping Choi pays for almost 20 percent of that salary.
But you know what? Instead of calling guys dumpster dives right out of the chute, why don't we give them a chance?
If your point is that Choi might be less awful than those who played 1B last year, you may be right. But I was hoping for more. Choi is a veteran whose capabilities are pretty well known by now. His ceiling is low enough that instead of settling for what he brings, I would rather see others get those ABs to see what they could do: Endy Rodriguez, Cal Mitchell, Nunez (who isn't even protected), maybe even Henry Davis. At least those guys might have a future with the team.
As for your attempt to discredit me by claiming I was "enamored with guys like Chavis and Gamel," I generally liked them as role players. Chavis was miscast as a regular 1Bman. He is versatile but was not used that way. He is the type who could come off the bench and fill in at numerous positions and has power. Gamel should be a nice 4th OFer type who was pressed into extended play for the Pirates who lacked alternatives. Neither should be an everyday player. So I don't know what my assessment of them has to do with settling for Choi as the regular 1Bman. So just for the record, let me make it clear I am not "enamored" with Choi.
And Choi is not a dumpster dive. I think he'll be a solid addition. It can't hurt when a guy comes from a winning culture.
Tampa essentially gave Choi away. The winning culture didn't want him. He is a career .239 hitter who's last 3 seasons have been consistent at .230, .229 and .233. His power is modest and below average for a corner infielder. He is not a good defender. And he's 32 so he's not a young guy with untapped potential. IMHO he was a quick fix at 1B with a low ceiling. Exactly what a team that claims it is rebuilding and should be getting stronger each year should not be doing. If he lasts the season, they'll be looking to upgrade that position the following year.
Pirates team OPS+84, Choi 114 (average is 100) Huge Win for Choi.
Pirates team 1B combined WAR in 2022, -4, Choi WAR 1.2, meaning he improves the team WAR at first by 5.2. Huge Win for Choi.
Pirates team BA-.222, Choi .233 Win Choi
Pirates team OBP-.291, Choi .341 HUGE Win Choi
Pirates team SLG- .364, Choi .388 Win Choi
Of all the players with as many AB's (356) as Choi, only Reynolds and Hayes had a higher batting average. So I find the three areas you chose, BA, fielding, and power, he's clearly better than practically everyone on the team, let alone far superior than any first baseman they threw out there. He'll be platooned. Chavis hit 14 HR's and had 49 RBI, all his HR's and most of his RBI at that position. Choi was 11/52 in 72 fewer AB's.
I've clearly shown Choi is an upgrade. What did you want, Rizzo? He's a stop gap, and quite honestly, IIRC you were one of the people enamored with guys like Chavis and Gamel, but Choi doesn't cut the grade?
And may I kindly so remind, Tampa plays the game on the cheap like the Pirates. He was projected 4.5 million in arbitration and Tampa needs to save money to pay for Glasnow. Dumping Choi pays for almost 20 percent of that salary.
But you know what? Instead of calling guys dumpster dives right out of the chute, why don't we give them a chance?
If your point is that Choi might be less awful than those who played 1B last year, you may be right. But I was hoping for more. Choi is a veteran whose capabilities are pretty well known by now. His ceiling is low enough that instead of settling for what he brings, I would rather see others get those ABs to see what they could do: Endy Rodriguez, Cal Mitchell, Nunez (who isn't even protected), maybe even Henry Davis. At least those guys might have a future with the team.
As for your attempt to discredit me by claiming I was "enamored with guys like Chavis and Gamel," I generally liked them as role players. Chavis was miscast as a regular 1Bman. He is versatile but was not used that way. He is the type who could come off the bench and fill in at numerous positions and has power. Gamel should be a nice 4th OFer type who was pressed into extended play for the Pirates who lacked alternatives. Neither should be an everyday player. So I don't know what my assessment of them has to do with settling for Choi as the regular 1Bman. So just for the record, let me make it clear I am not "enamored" with Choi.
Pirates to bring back out-of-town scoreboard at PNC Park
Bobster, we all hope for more! This is an upgrade from signings like VanMeter and Chang. Choi is here for one season, he'll be a FA in 2024. We know he'll be platooned. We also know he's getting elbow surgery. He hit 11 HR's with a bum elbow, but according to someone on reddit, he would have had 4 more HR's had he been playing at PNC park.
He's reported to be a great clubhouse influence, and I'm not saying you've said it, but some folks on this board talk about veteran presence, and he has that, plus he comes from a winning culture. He's a plus addition all around, aside from we'd like to see more.
He's reported to be a great clubhouse influence, and I'm not saying you've said it, but some folks on this board talk about veteran presence, and he has that, plus he comes from a winning culture. He's a plus addition all around, aside from we'd like to see more.
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Bobster21
Pirates to bring back out-of-town scoreboard at PNC Park
0A2C2B3E373B2C3A32590 wrote: Bobster, we all hope for more! This is an upgrade from signings like VanMeter and Chang. Choi is here for one season, he'll be a FA in 2024. We know he'll be platooned. We also know he's getting elbow surgery. He hit 11 HR's with a bum elbow, but according to someone on reddit, he would have had 4 more HR's had he been playing at PNC park.
He's reported to be a great clubhouse influence, and I'm not saying you've said it, but some folks on this board talk about veteran presence, and he has that, plus he comes from a winning culture. He's a plus addition all around, aside from we'd like to see more.
On the plus side, I've read he was particularly hurt by hitting into the shift, which--hopefully--will result in more hits with the shift now outlawed. But I guess we could say that for a lot of players.
He's reported to be a great clubhouse influence, and I'm not saying you've said it, but some folks on this board talk about veteran presence, and he has that, plus he comes from a winning culture. He's a plus addition all around, aside from we'd like to see more.
On the plus side, I've read he was particularly hurt by hitting into the shift, which--hopefully--will result in more hits with the shift now outlawed. But I guess we could say that for a lot of players.