Hurdle on bullpn usage

Bobster21 · Post by **Bobster21** » Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:14 pm

The Trib has an article about Hurdle's feelings on bullpen usage. He noted Reds mgr Bryan Price strays from the rigid bullpen roles that have been used in MLB for decades now. Price is prone to use his high leverage pitchers at whatever point in the game might be a turning point and will have his closer pitch more than 1 inning. Hurdle, who tends to stick closely to formulas, apparently feels his relievers are too married to specific roles to change that. But then there was this about his closer:

Also, Hurdle suggested it wouldn't be fair to, say, Watson to ask him to sacrifice potential saves when he's bound for unrestricted free agency this winter and the marketplace has traditionally placed a financial premium for established ninth-inning men.

With that rationale, it seems Hurdle would rather not win games if it required using Watson to get out of a non-save, high-leverage situation because it's more important that Watson never misses a save opportunity in order to get more money from whoever signs him as a FA next year. Yes, wouldn't it be just dreadful if the Pirates won a game they might otherwise have lost because Watson gets them out of a crucial 7th inning jam but someone else gets the save? Is Hurdle the manager of the Pirates trying to win as many games as possible or is he Watson's agent?

http://triblive.com/sports/pirates/1218 ... lpen-usage

PMike · Post by **PMike** » Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:58 pm

0B262B3A3D2C3B7B78490 wrote: The Trib has an article about Hurdle's feelings on bullpen usage. He noted Reds mgr Bryan Price strays from the rigid bullpen roles that have been used in MLB for decades now. Price is prone to use his high leverage pitchers at whatever point in the game might be a turning point and will have his closer pitch more than 1 inning. Hurdle, who tends to stick closely to formulas, apparently feels his relievers are too married to specific roles to change that. But then there was this about his closer:

Also, Hurdle suggested it wouldn't be fair to, say, Watson to ask him to sacrifice potential saves when he's bound for unrestricted free agency this winter and the marketplace has traditionally placed a financial premium for established ninth-inning men.

With that rationale, it seems Hurdle would rather not win games if it required using Watson to get out of a non-save, high-leverage situation because it's more important that Watson never misses a save opportunity in order to get more money from whoever signs him as a FA next year. Yes, wouldn't it be just dreadful if the Pirates won a game they might otherwise have lost because Watson gets them out of a crucial 7th inning jam but someone else gets the save? Is Hurdle the manager of the Pirates trying to win as many games as possible or is he Watson's agent?

http://triblive.com/sports/pirates/1218 ... lpen-usage

Sadly, there is no surprise here.

Ecbucs · Post by **Ecbucs** » Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:48 pm

Hurdle may believe it about Watson getting closing opportunities, he may manage like it but he shouldn't say it out loud.

NH should talk to him about that and maybe even remind him the goal is to win as many games as possible.

Quail · Post by **Quail** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:08 am

6A4C4D5A4C5C2F0 wrote: Hurdle may believe it about Watson getting closing opportunities, he may manage like it but he shouldn't say it out loud.

NH should talk to him about that and maybe even remind him the goal is to win as many games as possible.

That message should be sent to everyone from ownership down in the organization, not just to Hurdle.

skinnyhorse · Post by **skinnyhorse** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:32 am

He simply needs to go. He gave us a couple of good years but just like Colorado he has gotten to involved with some players and yes he seems to manage for what's best for a player than the team.

steve49 · Post by **steve49** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:23 am

072A27363120377774450 wrote: The Trib has an article about Hurdle's feelings on bullpen usage. He noted Reds mgr Bryan Price strays from the rigid bullpen roles that have been used in MLB for decades now. Price is prone to use his high leverage pitchers at whatever point in the game might be a turning point and will have his closer pitch more than 1 inning. Hurdle, who tends to stick closely to formulas, apparently feels his relievers are too married to specific roles to change that. But then there was this about his closer:

Also, Hurdle suggested it wouldn't be fair to, say, Watson to ask him to sacrifice potential saves when he's bound for unrestricted free agency this winter and the marketplace has traditionally placed a financial premium for established ninth-inning men.

With that rationale, it seems Hurdle would rather not win games if it required using Watson to get out of a non-save, high-leverage situation because it's more important that Watson never misses a save opportunity in order to get more money from whoever signs him as a FA next year. Yes, wouldn't it be just dreadful if the Pirates won a game they might otherwise have lost because Watson gets them out of a crucial 7th inning jam but someone else gets the save? Is Hurdle the manager of the Pirates trying to win as many games as possible or is he Watson's agent?

http://triblive.com/sports/pirates/1218 ... lpen-usage

What makes this boarder being obscene is no team will be giving Watson big money to close. He no doubt , 100% certain does not have the stuff to be an effective closer.

Bobster21 · Post by **Bobster21** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:30 am

Hurdle's bullpen philosophy proved to be a disaster in the loss to Boston yesterday. If his top 2 relievers are Watson and Rivero, it didn't seem necessary to use Rivero in the 7th when Kuhl was cruising on 92 pitches. Nor is it logical that Rivero couldn't start the 8th after throwing only 8 pitches. But seeing the game slipping away with Hudson and Nicasio, Watson can't be used because it's the 8th inning and it wouldn't be a save opportunity. Of course, it would be a save opportunity if Watson got out of the 8th inning jam and also pitched the 9th. But that just doesn't fit the Hurdle formula. Better to lose a game than to stray from the formula. Hurdle probably went to sleep firmly believing there was no other way he could have managed that game.

johnfluharty · Post by **johnfluharty** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:02 pm

I really didn't like Hudson coming in after throwing 31 pitches the previous day. That being said, Nicasio is usually pretty reliable. His walks were the first of the year for him.

dogknot17@yahoo.co · Post by **dogknot17@yahoo.co** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:16 pm

This is going to be the theme all year when ever a reliever blows a game and Watson wasn't used...ugh!

Bobster21 · Post by **Bobster21** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:23 pm

5C575F5356574C090F784159505757165B57380 wrote: This is going to be the theme all year when ever a reliever blows a game and Watson wasn't used...ugh!
As opposed to the theme that the Pirates can do no wrong?