Wouldn't have a problem with Greg Holland. Agree Watson seems to be a better 8th inning guy than Closer. Time will tell!
Beat'em Bucs!
A Player The Bucs Might Pursue
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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Bobster21
A Player The Bucs Might Pursue
6D5A4C5C694E414641686E2F0 wrote: Wouldn't have a problem with Greg Holland. Agree Watson seems to be a better 8th inning guy than Closer. Time will tell!
Beat'em Bucs!
I think it's interesting that some good relievers don't do well when anointed as the closer. I suspect because such a big deal is made of closing that some put too much pressure on themselves when pitching the 9th inning. Managers talk about there having to be a certain mentality to close. So someone who isn't closing might think he's not up to the task. Even in the minors, a closer is groomed rather than giving many the chance.
Before we had "closers" it was common for a number of pitchers to get saves in addition to the bullpen ace. When Goose Gossage had his best year in MLB with the Pirates in 1977, he had 26 saves. But sometimes Gossage wasn't around for the 9th after being used earlier and the Pirates got 13 additional saves from 4 other pitchers. Kent Tekulve had 31 saves in 1978. But the Bucs got 13 more from 6 other pitchers. Managers didn't hesitate to put other pitchers in the 9th to hold a lead. And they seemed capable. Getting saves didn't seem to be that big a deal until "closers" were deemed the only ones qualified to get them. So when a Watson is suddenly given that role, he may have self doubt about whether he can do it instead of just pitching with as much confidence as he does in the 8th.
Beat'em Bucs!
I think it's interesting that some good relievers don't do well when anointed as the closer. I suspect because such a big deal is made of closing that some put too much pressure on themselves when pitching the 9th inning. Managers talk about there having to be a certain mentality to close. So someone who isn't closing might think he's not up to the task. Even in the minors, a closer is groomed rather than giving many the chance.
Before we had "closers" it was common for a number of pitchers to get saves in addition to the bullpen ace. When Goose Gossage had his best year in MLB with the Pirates in 1977, he had 26 saves. But sometimes Gossage wasn't around for the 9th after being used earlier and the Pirates got 13 additional saves from 4 other pitchers. Kent Tekulve had 31 saves in 1978. But the Bucs got 13 more from 6 other pitchers. Managers didn't hesitate to put other pitchers in the 9th to hold a lead. And they seemed capable. Getting saves didn't seem to be that big a deal until "closers" were deemed the only ones qualified to get them. So when a Watson is suddenly given that role, he may have self doubt about whether he can do it instead of just pitching with as much confidence as he does in the 8th.
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BucsFaninGA
A Player The Bucs Might Pursue
Excellent point Bobster! I think you hit the nail on the head! And we know how important confidence is in our beloved sport and role of Closer!
Hoping Bucs get to watching the WS and get their competitive juices flowing. I am hoping our team is in a World Series one day soon! They have been in 3 in my lifetime:
1960 vs Yankees
1971 vs Orioles
1979 vs Orioles
Beat'em Bucs
Beat'em Bucs
Hoping Bucs get to watching the WS and get their competitive juices flowing. I am hoping our team is in a World Series one day soon! They have been in 3 in my lifetime:
1960 vs Yankees
1971 vs Orioles
1979 vs Orioles
Beat'em Bucs
Beat'em Bucs
A Player The Bucs Might Pursue
567B76676071662625140 wrote: Wouldn't have a problem with Greg Holland. Agree Watson seems to be a better 8th inning guy than Closer. Time will tell!
Beat'em Bucs!
I think it's interesting that some good relievers don't do well when anointed as the closer. I suspect because such a big deal is made of closing that some put too much pressure on themselves when pitching the 9th inning. Managers talk about there having to be a certain mentality to close. So someone who isn't closing might think he's not up to the task. Even in the minors, a closer is groomed rather than giving many the chance.
Before we had "closers" it was common for a number of pitchers to get saves in addition to the bullpen ace. When Goose Gossage had his best year in MLB with the Pirates in 1977, he had 26 saves. But sometimes Gossage wasn't around for the 9th after being used earlier and the Pirates got 13 additional saves from 4 other pitchers. Kent Tekulve had 31 saves in 1978. But the Bucs got 13 more from 6 other pitchers. Managers didn't hesitate to put other pitchers in the 9th to hold a lead. And they seemed capable. Getting saves didn't seem to be that big a deal until "closers" were deemed the only ones qualified to get them. So when a Watson is suddenly given that role, he may have self doubt about whether he can do it instead of just pitching with as much confidence as he does in the 8th.
I also think of Ramon Hernandez and Dave Giusti. Also Romo got some save opportunities.
I think the mental aspect is a part of it as is closers getting more money now. The idea of one inning pitcher seems to be thought of as an improvement by many managers. But I think the older way of using closer in 7th or 8th was just as efficient as far as winning ball games.
Beat'em Bucs!
I think it's interesting that some good relievers don't do well when anointed as the closer. I suspect because such a big deal is made of closing that some put too much pressure on themselves when pitching the 9th inning. Managers talk about there having to be a certain mentality to close. So someone who isn't closing might think he's not up to the task. Even in the minors, a closer is groomed rather than giving many the chance.
Before we had "closers" it was common for a number of pitchers to get saves in addition to the bullpen ace. When Goose Gossage had his best year in MLB with the Pirates in 1977, he had 26 saves. But sometimes Gossage wasn't around for the 9th after being used earlier and the Pirates got 13 additional saves from 4 other pitchers. Kent Tekulve had 31 saves in 1978. But the Bucs got 13 more from 6 other pitchers. Managers didn't hesitate to put other pitchers in the 9th to hold a lead. And they seemed capable. Getting saves didn't seem to be that big a deal until "closers" were deemed the only ones qualified to get them. So when a Watson is suddenly given that role, he may have self doubt about whether he can do it instead of just pitching with as much confidence as he does in the 8th.
I also think of Ramon Hernandez and Dave Giusti. Also Romo got some save opportunities.
I think the mental aspect is a part of it as is closers getting more money now. The idea of one inning pitcher seems to be thought of as an improvement by many managers. But I think the older way of using closer in 7th or 8th was just as efficient as far as winning ball games.
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BucsFaninGA
A Player The Bucs Might Pursue
And Grant Jackson used to get a few safe opportunities as well!
Blast from the past to hear Dave Guisti and Ramon Hernandez!
Beat'em Bucs
Blast from the past to hear Dave Guisti and Ramon Hernandez!
Beat'em Bucs
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Bobster21
A Player The Bucs Might Pursue
794E58487D5A5552557C7A3B0 wrote: And Grant Jackson used to get a few safe opportunities as well!
Blast from the past to hear Dave Guisti and Ramon Hernandez!
Beat'em Bucs
I liked Ramon Hernandez. He was originally signed by the Pirates in 1959 and was a teammate of Willie Stargell and Gene Alley at Grand Forks in 1960. He was sold to the Angels org in 1961 and didn't make the majors until 1967 with Atl. Finally came back to Pirates at age 30 in 1971 as a September call up and posted a 0.73 ERA for that month. The Bucs carried only 1 LH reliever that year (Bob Veale at age 35 with a 6.99 ERA and 1.791 WHIP but somehow managed a 6-0 record.) Hernandez wasn't eligible for the 1971 post season but was a key member of the bullpen for the next 5 years.
The 1972 Bucs got 22 saves from Giusti, 14 from Hernandez and 12 more from 5 others including 3 each from Bruce Kison, Bob Miller and Bob Johnson. The 1973 team got 20 from Giusti, 11 from Hernandez and 13 more from 5 others.
Blast from the past to hear Dave Guisti and Ramon Hernandez!
Beat'em Bucs
I liked Ramon Hernandez. He was originally signed by the Pirates in 1959 and was a teammate of Willie Stargell and Gene Alley at Grand Forks in 1960. He was sold to the Angels org in 1961 and didn't make the majors until 1967 with Atl. Finally came back to Pirates at age 30 in 1971 as a September call up and posted a 0.73 ERA for that month. The Bucs carried only 1 LH reliever that year (Bob Veale at age 35 with a 6.99 ERA and 1.791 WHIP but somehow managed a 6-0 record.) Hernandez wasn't eligible for the 1971 post season but was a key member of the bullpen for the next 5 years.
The 1972 Bucs got 22 saves from Giusti, 14 from Hernandez and 12 more from 5 others including 3 each from Bruce Kison, Bob Miller and Bob Johnson. The 1973 team got 20 from Giusti, 11 from Hernandez and 13 more from 5 others.
A Player The Bucs Might Pursue
654845545342551516270 wrote: And Grant Jackson used to get a few safe opportunities as well!
Blast from the past to hear Dave Guisti and Ramon Hernandez!
Beat'em Bucs
I liked Ramon Hernandez. He was originally signed by the Pirates in 1959 and was a teammate of Willie Stargell and Gene Alley at Grand Forks in 1960. He was sold to the Angels org in 1961 and didn't make the majors until 1967 with Atl. Finally came back to Pirates at age 30 in 1971 as a September call up and posted a 0.73 ERA for that month. The Bucs carried only 1 LH reliever that year (Bob Veale at age 35 with a 6.99 ERA and 1.791 WHIP but somehow managed a 6-0 record.) Hernandez wasn't eligible for the 1971 post season but was a key member of the bullpen for the next 5 years.
The 1972 Bucs got 22 saves from Giusti, 14 from Hernandez and 12 more from 5 others including 3 each from Bruce Kison, Bob Miller and Bob Johnson. The 1973 team got 20 from Giusti, 11 from Hernandez and 13 more from 5 others.
A lot of people showing their collective ages with some of these posts. ;D
Blast from the past to hear Dave Guisti and Ramon Hernandez!
Beat'em Bucs
I liked Ramon Hernandez. He was originally signed by the Pirates in 1959 and was a teammate of Willie Stargell and Gene Alley at Grand Forks in 1960. He was sold to the Angels org in 1961 and didn't make the majors until 1967 with Atl. Finally came back to Pirates at age 30 in 1971 as a September call up and posted a 0.73 ERA for that month. The Bucs carried only 1 LH reliever that year (Bob Veale at age 35 with a 6.99 ERA and 1.791 WHIP but somehow managed a 6-0 record.) Hernandez wasn't eligible for the 1971 post season but was a key member of the bullpen for the next 5 years.
The 1972 Bucs got 22 saves from Giusti, 14 from Hernandez and 12 more from 5 others including 3 each from Bruce Kison, Bob Miller and Bob Johnson. The 1973 team got 20 from Giusti, 11 from Hernandez and 13 more from 5 others.
A lot of people showing their collective ages with some of these posts. ;D
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Bobster21
A Player The Bucs Might Pursue
4B5B5A6D7B7B77180 wrote: And Grant Jackson used to get a few safe opportunities as well!
Blast from the past to hear Dave Guisti and Ramon Hernandez!
Beat'em Bucs
I liked Ramon Hernandez. He was originally signed by the Pirates in 1959 and was a teammate of Willie Stargell and Gene Alley at Grand Forks in 1960. He was sold to the Angels org in 1961 and didn't make the majors until 1967 with Atl. Finally came back to Pirates at age 30 in 1971 as a September call up and posted a 0.73 ERA for that month. The Bucs carried only 1 LH reliever that year (Bob Veale at age 35 with a 6.99 ERA and 1.791 WHIP but somehow managed a 6-0 record.) Hernandez wasn't eligible for the 1971 post season but was a key member of the bullpen for the next 5 years.
The 1972 Bucs got 22 saves from Giusti, 14 from Hernandez and 12 more from 5 others including 3 each from Bruce Kison, Bob Miller and Bob Johnson. The 1973 team got 20 from Giusti, 11 from Hernandez and 13 more from 5 others.
A lot of people showing their collective ages with some of these posts. ;D
Nah. I just read about that stuff in my encyclopedia.
Blast from the past to hear Dave Guisti and Ramon Hernandez!
Beat'em Bucs
I liked Ramon Hernandez. He was originally signed by the Pirates in 1959 and was a teammate of Willie Stargell and Gene Alley at Grand Forks in 1960. He was sold to the Angels org in 1961 and didn't make the majors until 1967 with Atl. Finally came back to Pirates at age 30 in 1971 as a September call up and posted a 0.73 ERA for that month. The Bucs carried only 1 LH reliever that year (Bob Veale at age 35 with a 6.99 ERA and 1.791 WHIP but somehow managed a 6-0 record.) Hernandez wasn't eligible for the 1971 post season but was a key member of the bullpen for the next 5 years.
The 1972 Bucs got 22 saves from Giusti, 14 from Hernandez and 12 more from 5 others including 3 each from Bruce Kison, Bob Miller and Bob Johnson. The 1973 team got 20 from Giusti, 11 from Hernandez and 13 more from 5 others.
A lot of people showing their collective ages with some of these posts. ;D
Nah. I just read about that stuff in my encyclopedia.
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BucsFaninGA
A Player The Bucs Might Pursue
Proud to be a Bucs fan over the years! Lived in Atlanta since 1975, but still a Pirates Fan. 1991 1992 were hard years living here...FYI, Austin Meadows Mom taught my son in Elementary School. Really nice people the Meadows Family. Hope to be able
to see Pirates win another World Series in my lifetime!
Enjoy this board and engaging with other like minded Pirates Fan!
Beat'em Bucs
Bucs Fan in GA
to see Pirates win another World Series in my lifetime!
Enjoy this board and engaging with other like minded Pirates Fan!
Beat'em Bucs
Bucs Fan in GA
A Player The Bucs Might Pursue
Former Texas closer Shawn Tolleson has elected for free agency. I would not be surprised if the Pirates kick the tires on him.