3F343C3035342F6A6C1B223A3334347538345B0 wrote: People get on me because I would say that isn't what Huntington said or tried to explain what he meant. I have said that he says GM Speak like every other GM in the league.
Many here don't believe a word he says and calls him a liar. Is that no longer the case?
Now, he said he expects to compete in 2018 and people believe him? I am not understanding why people believe him now. They don't believe him when he says he offered a ton in a trade, the Liriano deal, trying after free agents, trying to extend players, money issues, not salary dumps, etc.
You can call it rebuilding or retooling. I was all aboard in adding players, but that wasn't the route taken. If Cole was traded, they all would be traded. Huntington carefully chose his words in his press conference.
Still lost to your point: are you saying you believe Neal is trying to compete this year or does "GM talk" mean, to you, that he's blowing the team up?
Rebuild. Actions speak louder. He traded Cole and McCutchen. I expect Harrison to be traded too.
Ok, now it is clear you agree that it is a rebuild and that all the GM Speak is just cow pies and that you no longer feel NH is speaking the Truth. Am I correct, as simple Yes or No answer will be a sufficient answer. Thanks for that clarification.
One sure way for Neal to prove he’s competing:
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
-
rucker59@gmail.com
One sure way for Neal to prove he’s competing:
614048614A42250 wrote: People get on me because I would say that isn't what Huntington said or tried to explain what he meant. I have said that he says GM Speak like every other GM in the league.
Many here don't believe a word he says and calls him a liar. Is that no longer the case?
Now, he said he expects to compete in 2018 and people believe him? I am not understanding why people believe him now. They don't believe him when he says he offered a ton in a trade, the Liriano deal, trying after free agents, trying to extend players, money issues, not salary dumps, etc.
You can call it rebuilding or retooling. I was all aboard in adding players, but that wasn't the route taken. If Cole was traded, they all would be traded. Huntington carefully chose his words in his press conference.
Still lost to your point: are you saying you believe Neal is trying to compete this year or does "GM talk" mean, to you, that he's blowing the team up?
Rebuild. Actions speak louder. He traded Cole and McCutchen. I expect Harrison to be traded too.
Ok, now it is clear you agree that it is a rebuild and that all the GM Speak is just cow pies and that you no longer feel NH is speaking the Truth. Am I correct, as simple Yes or No answer will be a sufficient answer. Thanks for that clarification.
And Dog is right - actions do speak much louder than words. Have from the beginning of time. This FO has certainly used hollow words and now it’s catching up to them.
But I don’t think this is GM talk. If it is somebody needs to tell Neal it’s going to backfire big time. Somebody needs to tell Neal his words are going to cause a lot more pain regardless of motive.
Many here don't believe a word he says and calls him a liar. Is that no longer the case?
Now, he said he expects to compete in 2018 and people believe him? I am not understanding why people believe him now. They don't believe him when he says he offered a ton in a trade, the Liriano deal, trying after free agents, trying to extend players, money issues, not salary dumps, etc.
You can call it rebuilding or retooling. I was all aboard in adding players, but that wasn't the route taken. If Cole was traded, they all would be traded. Huntington carefully chose his words in his press conference.
Still lost to your point: are you saying you believe Neal is trying to compete this year or does "GM talk" mean, to you, that he's blowing the team up?
Rebuild. Actions speak louder. He traded Cole and McCutchen. I expect Harrison to be traded too.
Ok, now it is clear you agree that it is a rebuild and that all the GM Speak is just cow pies and that you no longer feel NH is speaking the Truth. Am I correct, as simple Yes or No answer will be a sufficient answer. Thanks for that clarification.
And Dog is right - actions do speak much louder than words. Have from the beginning of time. This FO has certainly used hollow words and now it’s catching up to them.
But I don’t think this is GM talk. If it is somebody needs to tell Neal it’s going to backfire big time. Somebody needs to tell Neal his words are going to cause a lot more pain regardless of motive.
-
rucker59@gmail.com
One sure way for Neal to prove he’s competing:
735F57505B7C4B5D4D3E0 wrote: First, Yelich would be a great addition, but he alone likely would not be enough to turn the Bucs into being a definite wild card contender. However, trading for him would clearly demonstrate that the Pirates are not punting the season (or the next several seasons) and that they are open to trying to compete.
Secondly, I don't think the suggested trade packages are enough to land Yelich. The Marlins are likely getting nearer to their salary targets and may be looking more closely at the talent return than the salary reduction that they did in trading Gordon, Stanton and Osuna. They are rumored to be asking for Acuna.
Continuing, the Bucs clearly have the salary space to take on Yelich's contract after moving both McCutchen and Cole.
Yelich is a superior cost controlled talent who may still improve. That said, I would really like to try and hold onto Keller, Baez and Meadows (who I view as the replacement for Polanco). Perhaps a package like Glasnow, one of Tucker/Hayes/Newman, Brian Reynolds (who the Bucs just got from the Giants), Jose Osuna (who likely lacks a position with Bell on board) and a pitcher with some limited value; someone like Neverauskus/Santana/Holmes et al. The above package would feature 2 players in the current Pirates top ten (Reynolds is one of those players), a pitcher who has recently been in both the Pirates top ten and MLB's top 25, someone who could provide some power in Osuna and who is coming off a good winter league season, and a decent filler. While I recognize that some of the above is a quantity for quality trade, and that it still doesn't feature the type of premier talent that the Marlins are rumored to be looking for, but at least 3 and likely 4 of the above players would contribute at the major league level.
And, if the Bucs really want Yelich, let's offer to take on Castro's contract in addition to Yelich. If that occurred the Bucs' salary obligations in 2018 would be little more than if the team had kept both Cole and Cutch. The Bucs could then either hold onto Castro to play second and trade Harrison, or they could trade Castro for a low level higher ceiling prospect while agreeing to eat some salary. Geez, maybe the Yankees would even want him back under those circumstances,
The Bucs could also make up the salary by dealing Freese for a low level (risky) prospect, or dealing Hudson for the same and eating a mil or so of his salary. I don't think that Rodriguez's salary is movable at this point.
So --- what could a Buc line-up look like with Yelich and either Castro of J-Hay.
J-Hay - 2nd
Marte - CF
Yelich - LF
Bell - 1st
Polanco - RF
Moran - 3rd
Diaz/Cervelli - C
Mercer - SS
Oh well, Yelich will not be a Pirate. Time to drift back to reality.
He could be. And I agree, this deal and this lineup would help in the “trust dept”. I think it would help Neal’s rep tremendously. Need just one pitcher and this team could at least represent. Maybe truly compete.
These are the types of moves Neal has refused to execute in the past, to his and the organization’s detriment. We’ve had a farm system to utilize for this purpose. We’ve accomplished nothing holding on to prospects.
Secondly, I don't think the suggested trade packages are enough to land Yelich. The Marlins are likely getting nearer to their salary targets and may be looking more closely at the talent return than the salary reduction that they did in trading Gordon, Stanton and Osuna. They are rumored to be asking for Acuna.
Continuing, the Bucs clearly have the salary space to take on Yelich's contract after moving both McCutchen and Cole.
Yelich is a superior cost controlled talent who may still improve. That said, I would really like to try and hold onto Keller, Baez and Meadows (who I view as the replacement for Polanco). Perhaps a package like Glasnow, one of Tucker/Hayes/Newman, Brian Reynolds (who the Bucs just got from the Giants), Jose Osuna (who likely lacks a position with Bell on board) and a pitcher with some limited value; someone like Neverauskus/Santana/Holmes et al. The above package would feature 2 players in the current Pirates top ten (Reynolds is one of those players), a pitcher who has recently been in both the Pirates top ten and MLB's top 25, someone who could provide some power in Osuna and who is coming off a good winter league season, and a decent filler. While I recognize that some of the above is a quantity for quality trade, and that it still doesn't feature the type of premier talent that the Marlins are rumored to be looking for, but at least 3 and likely 4 of the above players would contribute at the major league level.
And, if the Bucs really want Yelich, let's offer to take on Castro's contract in addition to Yelich. If that occurred the Bucs' salary obligations in 2018 would be little more than if the team had kept both Cole and Cutch. The Bucs could then either hold onto Castro to play second and trade Harrison, or they could trade Castro for a low level higher ceiling prospect while agreeing to eat some salary. Geez, maybe the Yankees would even want him back under those circumstances,
The Bucs could also make up the salary by dealing Freese for a low level (risky) prospect, or dealing Hudson for the same and eating a mil or so of his salary. I don't think that Rodriguez's salary is movable at this point.
So --- what could a Buc line-up look like with Yelich and either Castro of J-Hay.
J-Hay - 2nd
Marte - CF
Yelich - LF
Bell - 1st
Polanco - RF
Moran - 3rd
Diaz/Cervelli - C
Mercer - SS
Oh well, Yelich will not be a Pirate. Time to drift back to reality.
He could be. And I agree, this deal and this lineup would help in the “trust dept”. I think it would help Neal’s rep tremendously. Need just one pitcher and this team could at least represent. Maybe truly compete.
These are the types of moves Neal has refused to execute in the past, to his and the organization’s detriment. We’ve had a farm system to utilize for this purpose. We’ve accomplished nothing holding on to prospects.
One sure way for Neal to prove he’s competing:
163A32353E192E38285B0 wrote: First, Yelich would be a great addition, but he alone likely would not be enough to turn the Bucs into being a definite wild card contender. However, trading for him would clearly demonstrate that the Pirates are not punting the season (or the next several seasons) and that they are open to trying to compete.
Secondly, I don't think the suggested trade packages are enough to land Yelich. The Marlins are likely getting nearer to their salary targets and may be looking more closely at the talent return than the salary reduction that they did in trading Gordon, Stanton and Osuna. They are rumored to be asking for Acuna.
Continuing, the Bucs clearly have the salary space to take on Yelich's contract after moving both McCutchen and Cole.
Yelich is a superior cost controlled talent who may still improve. That said, I would really like to try and hold onto Keller, Baez and Meadows (who I view as the replacement for Polanco). Perhaps a package like Glasnow, one of Tucker/Hayes/Newman, Brian Reynolds (who the Bucs just got from the Giants), Jose Osuna (who likely lacks a position with Bell on board) and a pitcher with some limited value; someone like Neverauskus/Santana/Holmes et al. The above package would feature 2 players in the current Pirates top ten (Reynolds is one of those players), a pitcher who has recently been in both the Pirates top ten and MLB's top 25, someone who could provide some power in Osuna and who is coming off a good winter league season, and a decent filler. While I recognize that some of the above is a quantity for quality trade, and that it still doesn't feature the type of premier talent that the Marlins are rumored to be looking for, but at least 3 and likely 4 of the above players would contribute at the major league level.
And, if the Bucs really want Yelich, let's offer to take on Castro's contract in addition to Yelich. If that occurred the Bucs' salary obligations in 2018 would be little more than if the team had kept both Cole and Cutch. The Bucs could then either hold onto Castro to play second and trade Harrison, or they could trade Castro for a low level higher ceiling prospect while agreeing to eat some salary. Geez, maybe the Yankees would even want him back under those circumstances,
The Bucs could also make up the salary by dealing Freese for a low level (risky) prospect, or dealing Hudson for the same and eating a mil or so of his salary. I don't think that Rodriguez's salary is movable at this point.
So --- what could a Buc line-up look like with Yelich and either Castro of J-Hay.
J-Hay - 2nd
Marte - CF
Yelich - LF
Bell - 1st
Polanco - RF
Moran - 3rd
Diaz/Cervelli - C
Mercer - SS
Oh well, Yelich will not be a Pirate. Time to drift back to reality.
I really don't see the Braves moving Acuna for Yelich. If this was three years later and Acuna was still 19 years old and putting up those stats in AAA, then maybe. The Braves are probably staying the course.
They are looking for a stud prospect, but I'm sure the Marlins could be convinced on a lesser one (Meadows) and another good one (Glasnow to Newman). I'm not sure what Glasnow's value is now. Maybe it declined a bit after last year's complete failure up in the bigs.
No, the Pirates still aren't a wild card team with Yelich. That I agree. However, it would be proof management and ownership are trying. They are being accused by our fan base and the media of lying. The only way they can turn that around is making a deal like this.
Secondly, I don't think the suggested trade packages are enough to land Yelich. The Marlins are likely getting nearer to their salary targets and may be looking more closely at the talent return than the salary reduction that they did in trading Gordon, Stanton and Osuna. They are rumored to be asking for Acuna.
Continuing, the Bucs clearly have the salary space to take on Yelich's contract after moving both McCutchen and Cole.
Yelich is a superior cost controlled talent who may still improve. That said, I would really like to try and hold onto Keller, Baez and Meadows (who I view as the replacement for Polanco). Perhaps a package like Glasnow, one of Tucker/Hayes/Newman, Brian Reynolds (who the Bucs just got from the Giants), Jose Osuna (who likely lacks a position with Bell on board) and a pitcher with some limited value; someone like Neverauskus/Santana/Holmes et al. The above package would feature 2 players in the current Pirates top ten (Reynolds is one of those players), a pitcher who has recently been in both the Pirates top ten and MLB's top 25, someone who could provide some power in Osuna and who is coming off a good winter league season, and a decent filler. While I recognize that some of the above is a quantity for quality trade, and that it still doesn't feature the type of premier talent that the Marlins are rumored to be looking for, but at least 3 and likely 4 of the above players would contribute at the major league level.
And, if the Bucs really want Yelich, let's offer to take on Castro's contract in addition to Yelich. If that occurred the Bucs' salary obligations in 2018 would be little more than if the team had kept both Cole and Cutch. The Bucs could then either hold onto Castro to play second and trade Harrison, or they could trade Castro for a low level higher ceiling prospect while agreeing to eat some salary. Geez, maybe the Yankees would even want him back under those circumstances,
The Bucs could also make up the salary by dealing Freese for a low level (risky) prospect, or dealing Hudson for the same and eating a mil or so of his salary. I don't think that Rodriguez's salary is movable at this point.
So --- what could a Buc line-up look like with Yelich and either Castro of J-Hay.
J-Hay - 2nd
Marte - CF
Yelich - LF
Bell - 1st
Polanco - RF
Moran - 3rd
Diaz/Cervelli - C
Mercer - SS
Oh well, Yelich will not be a Pirate. Time to drift back to reality.
I really don't see the Braves moving Acuna for Yelich. If this was three years later and Acuna was still 19 years old and putting up those stats in AAA, then maybe. The Braves are probably staying the course.
They are looking for a stud prospect, but I'm sure the Marlins could be convinced on a lesser one (Meadows) and another good one (Glasnow to Newman). I'm not sure what Glasnow's value is now. Maybe it declined a bit after last year's complete failure up in the bigs.
No, the Pirates still aren't a wild card team with Yelich. That I agree. However, it would be proof management and ownership are trying. They are being accused by our fan base and the media of lying. The only way they can turn that around is making a deal like this.