476A67767160773734050 wrote: Pirates total 4 hits after Hurdle decides to rest 2 of his best hitters in Frazier and Freese. Frazier was coming off a 3-hit game last night and had 1 of the 4 hits today with a PH. Their replacements were 0 for 7 with 5 Ks. Huge difference between taking 3 of 4 or gaining nothing by splitting 4 games. But as usual, Hurdle's priority was on resting players. Freese had played 6 games since having 2 days off. He must've been exhausted. I remember Cal Ripken begging to be taken out after every 6 games. Frazier is age 25 and has played 6 games since a day off. Can't risk starting a 7th game after getting 3 hits. All that baserunning must've been too much. Hurdle has convinced me. Winning is good but resting is the ultimate goal. Maybe they could change the team name to the Pittsburgh Pillows. The Parrot could be replaced by someone dressed as a recliner.
http://cdn.coolest-homemade-costumes.co ... 425124.jpg
Must be a 2 game swing with the division leader is a bigger deal to you than it is to Clint.
Apparently so. :-?
yeah, somewhere along the line you have to decide every game is important. this team hasn't been good enough to count on being able to protect leads when it gets them. One more win against O's, Cubs and Brewers would have made this team seem like it is going in the right direction (a sweep of the Brewcrew would have made up for O's and Cubs losses to me).
At least Rivero is rested for next time there is a lead.
Bucs Brewers / Nova vs Anderson
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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SteadyFreddy
Bucs Brewers / Nova vs Anderson
0726333A023B20332637520 wrote: On May 12 we were 14–22 and a season worst 8 games under .500.
Today we are 33 – 40, still 7 games under .500.
So 19 and 18 in the last 37 games. We climbed to 4 games under .500 only to go into Baltimore and choke. Last night in the 7th, it looked like we might get to 5 games under and 4 games back. Then, after destroying the Brewers in the first two games, we ended up splitting. The hitting has been solid in June, Cutch is back, and we're still treading water...
Its why it's hard to get excited about this team when they win some games in a row because they never build on it and make it count for something. This is still a mediocre team at the end of the day that just has too many holes right now especially with the pitching to win games consistently. Losing these last two in Milwaukee really hurts this team and the way Clint is managing right now is not helping matters. He is just not putting the Pirates in the best possible situation to win games.
Today we are 33 – 40, still 7 games under .500.
So 19 and 18 in the last 37 games. We climbed to 4 games under .500 only to go into Baltimore and choke. Last night in the 7th, it looked like we might get to 5 games under and 4 games back. Then, after destroying the Brewers in the first two games, we ended up splitting. The hitting has been solid in June, Cutch is back, and we're still treading water...
Its why it's hard to get excited about this team when they win some games in a row because they never build on it and make it count for something. This is still a mediocre team at the end of the day that just has too many holes right now especially with the pitching to win games consistently. Losing these last two in Milwaukee really hurts this team and the way Clint is managing right now is not helping matters. He is just not putting the Pirates in the best possible situation to win games.
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SteadyFreddy
Bucs Brewers / Nova vs Anderson
6C4A4B5C4A5A290 wrote: Pirates total 4 hits after Hurdle decides to rest 2 of his best hitters in Frazier and Freese. Frazier was coming off a 3-hit game last night and had 1 of the 4 hits today with a PH. Their replacements were 0 for 7 with 5 Ks. Huge difference between taking 3 of 4 or gaining nothing by splitting 4 games. But as usual, Hurdle's priority was on resting players. Freese had played 6 games since having 2 days off. He must've been exhausted. I remember Cal Ripken begging to be taken out after every 6 games. Frazier is age 25 and has played 6 games since a day off. Can't risk starting a 7th game after getting 3 hits. All that baserunning must've been too much. Hurdle has convinced me. Winning is good but resting is the ultimate goal. Maybe they could change the team name to the Pittsburgh Pillows. The Parrot could be replaced by someone dressed as a recliner.
http://cdn.coolest-homemade-costumes.co ... 425124.jpg
Must be a 2 game swing with the division leader is a bigger deal to you than it is to Clint.
Apparently so. :-?
yeah, somewhere along the line you have to decide every game is important. this team hasn't been good enough to count on being able to protect leads when it gets them. One more win against O's, Cubs and Brewers would have made this team seem like it is going in the right direction (a sweep of the Brewcrew would have made up for O's and Cubs losses to me).
At least Rivero is rested for next time there is a lead. Yea Clint is more worried about winning games in August then in June.
http://cdn.coolest-homemade-costumes.co ... 425124.jpg
Must be a 2 game swing with the division leader is a bigger deal to you than it is to Clint.
Apparently so. :-?
yeah, somewhere along the line you have to decide every game is important. this team hasn't been good enough to count on being able to protect leads when it gets them. One more win against O's, Cubs and Brewers would have made this team seem like it is going in the right direction (a sweep of the Brewcrew would have made up for O's and Cubs losses to me).
At least Rivero is rested for next time there is a lead. Yea Clint is more worried about winning games in August then in June.
Bucs Brewers / Nova vs Anderson
123524202538073324252538410 wrote: Pirates total 4 hits after Hurdle decides to rest 2 of his best hitters in Frazier and Freese. Frazier was coming off a 3-hit game last night and had 1 of the 4 hits today with a PH. Their replacements were 0 for 7 with 5 Ks. Huge difference between taking 3 of 4 or gaining nothing by splitting 4 games. But as usual, Hurdle's priority was on resting players. Freese had played 6 games since having 2 days off. He must've been exhausted. I remember Cal Ripken begging to be taken out after every 6 games. Frazier is age 25 and has played 6 games since a day off. Can't risk starting a 7th game after getting 3 hits. All that baserunning must've been too much. Hurdle has convinced me. Winning is good but resting is the ultimate goal. Maybe they could change the team name to the Pittsburgh Pillows. The Parrot could be replaced by someone dressed as a recliner.
http://cdn.coolest-homemade-costumes.co ... 425124.jpg
Must be a 2 game swing with the division leader is a bigger deal to you than it is to Clint.
Apparently so. :-?
yeah, somewhere along the line you have to decide every game is important. this team hasn't been good enough to count on being able to protect leads when it gets them. One more win against O's, Cubs and Brewers would have made this team seem like it is going in the right direction (a sweep of the Brewcrew would have made up for O's and Cubs losses to me).
At least Rivero is rested for next time there is a lead. Yea Clint is more worried about winning games in August then in June.
going 19-18 is like treading water. 21-16 is more like heading in the right direction. that would be 567 winning percentage.
http://cdn.coolest-homemade-costumes.co ... 425124.jpg
Must be a 2 game swing with the division leader is a bigger deal to you than it is to Clint.
Apparently so. :-?
yeah, somewhere along the line you have to decide every game is important. this team hasn't been good enough to count on being able to protect leads when it gets them. One more win against O's, Cubs and Brewers would have made this team seem like it is going in the right direction (a sweep of the Brewcrew would have made up for O's and Cubs losses to me).
At least Rivero is rested for next time there is a lead. Yea Clint is more worried about winning games in August then in June.
going 19-18 is like treading water. 21-16 is more like heading in the right direction. that would be 567 winning percentage.
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SteadyFreddy
Bucs Brewers / Nova vs Anderson
Rivero was only used 1 game in Milwaukee too and that was when the Pirates were up by 4 runs in the 9th inning. And that is the only game he has pitched so far since last Saturday against the Cubs. So there is absolutely no damn excuse at all for Clint to not use him every game in St Louis this weekend if they are winning the game in the 8th inning each game for a 5 or even 6 out save. You got an off day on Monday coming up as well before the Rays series here at home. Rivero better pitch a whole lot this weekend in these games late if the Pirates are winning. These games in St Louis are just as important as the games against the Cubs and Cards.
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SteadyFreddy
Bucs Brewers / Nova vs Anderson
And 2-2 this series with the Brewers for me simply isn't good enough not when you win the first two games of the series and have your best pitcher pitching in one of the final 2 games of the series. But that's how this team operates as I said before. They just aren't good enough this year, and while I like Clint Hurdle a lot he has not put the Pirates in position to win games late very good at all more times then not.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Bucs Brewers / Nova vs Anderson
I feel they are treading in how they are losing. Base running mistakes lost this game or at least ended innings.
Overall, they are losing close games. If they were getting blown out I would feel differently. The return of Marte is giving me hope. But they have to still tread water and not sink. Crucial stretch here for sure to have any chance. I am sure the Cardinals are thinking the same thing.
Overall, they are losing close games. If they were getting blown out I would feel differently. The return of Marte is giving me hope. But they have to still tread water and not sink. Crucial stretch here for sure to have any chance. I am sure the Cardinals are thinking the same thing.
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Bobster21
Bucs Brewers / Nova vs Anderson
I'm seeing a disturbing pattern. It started in spring training when Glasnow "won" the "competition" to start with a 6.23 ST ERA and 1.85 WHIP over Williams (2.04, 0.91) and Brault (3.45, 1.34). It continued when Kang and then Marte were lost and then not replaced. At times there have not even been 3 legit outfielders on the roster. And the cavalry to the rescue consisted of Gosselin and Moroff and Bostick and Ortiz and Ngoepe. Most recently, they have decided to go with 3 catchers, meaning there are only 3 players on the bench who don't catch. There has just been no sign at any time this season that the FO has any real interest in putting together a good-or even rational-roster.
Then we have Hurdle who seems indifferent to whether they win or not. How many games did they lose because he refused to replace an obviously ineffective Watson as his closer? And how many games have they lost since, because he lets Rivero sit out games while less effective relievers lose them? He frequently writes out lineups doomed to fail because he seems to prefer watching productive players sit and rest rather than play and win. Hurdle's nonchalant attitude towards winning seems to fall directly in line with the FO's apparent indifference toward roster building. Hurdle seems to know he doesn't have to win. Winning is nice but not necessary. He and NH will surely get their extensions.
Maybe the plan was to use the season for experimenting and player development. Just win enough to keep fans coming to the park. They tried to develop Glasnow as a starter and Watson as a closer and let them fail and fail and fail until they just couldn't sell it to the fans anymore. They're letting Frazier and Osuna (and Polanco) learn to play the OF instead of even acquiring a legit backup. They try different lineups and different defensive alignments nearly every night even if it means sitting a hot hitter who hasn't played more than a handful of games since his last rest. It's not that they're trying to lose but they just aren't putting forth their best efforts to win. Maybe somewhere down the road operating the 2017 team in this manner will pay dividends. But it's getting more and more difficult to watch.
Then we have Hurdle who seems indifferent to whether they win or not. How many games did they lose because he refused to replace an obviously ineffective Watson as his closer? And how many games have they lost since, because he lets Rivero sit out games while less effective relievers lose them? He frequently writes out lineups doomed to fail because he seems to prefer watching productive players sit and rest rather than play and win. Hurdle's nonchalant attitude towards winning seems to fall directly in line with the FO's apparent indifference toward roster building. Hurdle seems to know he doesn't have to win. Winning is nice but not necessary. He and NH will surely get their extensions.
Maybe the plan was to use the season for experimenting and player development. Just win enough to keep fans coming to the park. They tried to develop Glasnow as a starter and Watson as a closer and let them fail and fail and fail until they just couldn't sell it to the fans anymore. They're letting Frazier and Osuna (and Polanco) learn to play the OF instead of even acquiring a legit backup. They try different lineups and different defensive alignments nearly every night even if it means sitting a hot hitter who hasn't played more than a handful of games since his last rest. It's not that they're trying to lose but they just aren't putting forth their best efforts to win. Maybe somewhere down the road operating the 2017 team in this manner will pay dividends. But it's getting more and more difficult to watch.
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SteadyFreddy
Bucs Brewers / Nova vs Anderson
757E767A7F7E652026516870797E7E3F727E110 wrote: I feel they are treading in how they are losing. Base running mistakes lost this game or at least ended innings.
Overall, they are losing close games. If they were getting blown out I would feel differently. The return of Marte is giving me hope. But they have to still tread water and not sink. Crucial stretch here for sure to have any chance. I am sure the Cardinals are thinking the same thing. Good teams that are playoff teams win close games and don't lose them like the Pirates seem to do more times then not. When the Pirates won 96 and 98 games in 2013 and 2015 they won a ton of close games by one run and in walk off fashion. This teams record is what it is its 7 games under .500 and they are 19-18 since they were 14-22. That isn't gonna be good enough in the long run to win this division.
Overall, they are losing close games. If they were getting blown out I would feel differently. The return of Marte is giving me hope. But they have to still tread water and not sink. Crucial stretch here for sure to have any chance. I am sure the Cardinals are thinking the same thing. Good teams that are playoff teams win close games and don't lose them like the Pirates seem to do more times then not. When the Pirates won 96 and 98 games in 2013 and 2015 they won a ton of close games by one run and in walk off fashion. This teams record is what it is its 7 games under .500 and they are 19-18 since they were 14-22. That isn't gonna be good enough in the long run to win this division.
Bucs Brewers / Nova vs Anderson
436E63727564733330010 wrote: I'm seeing a disturbing pattern. It started in spring training when Glasnow "won" the "competition" to start with a 6.23 ST ERA and 1.85 WHIP over Williams (2.04, 0.91) and Brault (3.45, 1.34). It continued when Kang and then Marte were lost and then not replaced. At times there have not even been 3 legit outfielders on the roster. And the cavalry to the rescue consisted of Gosselin and Moroff and Bostick and Ortiz and Ngoepe. Most recently, they have decided to go with 3 catchers, meaning there are only 3 players on the bench who don't catch. There has just been no sign at any time this season that the FO has any real interest in putting together a good-or even rational-roster.
Then we have Hurdle who seems indifferent to whether they win or not. How many games did they lose because he refused to replace an obviously ineffective Watson as his closer? And how many games have they lost since, because he lets Rivero sit out games while less effective relievers lose them? He frequently writes out lineups doomed to fail because he seems to prefer watching productive players sit and rest rather than play and win. Hurdle's nonchalant attitude towards winning seems to fall directly in line with the FO's apparent indifference toward roster building. Hurdle seems to know he doesn't have to win. Winning is nice but not necessary. He and NH will surely get their extensions.
Maybe the plan was to use the season for experimenting and player development. Just win enough to keep fans coming to the park. They tried to develop Glasnow as a starter and Watson as a closer and let them fail and fail and fail until they just couldn't sell it to the fans anymore. They're letting Frazier and Osuna (and Polanco) learn to play the OF instead of even acquiring a legit backup. They try different lineups and different defensive alignments nearly every night even if it means sitting a hot hitter who hasn't played more than a handful of games since his last rest. It's not that they're trying to lose but they just aren't putting forth their best efforts to win. Maybe somewhere down the road operating the 2017 team in this manner will pay dividends. But it's getting more and more difficult to watch.
I think I see a different pattern. Without knowing any of those who are constantly complaining about (or supporting for that matter) personally, I wonder just how much attention you pay to other teams.
Admittedly, I am a fantasy baseball fanatic. This influences me to pay attention to other teams situations and monitor for changes. I can assure you, nearly these exact same thoughts occur from fans of EVERY team that is hovering around .500.
Thus, I am concluding that the issues you are bringing up are caused by an adherence to following a single team, rather than the entire sport. By the way, this is not a knock! I love the Pirates also, and am frustrated with the way things are handled, the endless excuses, etc.
However, I think if you were to ask 100 fans of any particular team that is not rebuilding and has a record of, say, .500 or lower, you'd find variations of all of these complaints and supports of optimism. This does not mean things don't need to change. It's more of a validation of the fact that change takes time and patience, something fans don't have because they don't need to. Executives, however, must have those traits and use them when it comes to player performance because they've put those players there with the expectation of success. Therefore, evaluating failure is a process, NOT a reaction.
Then we have Hurdle who seems indifferent to whether they win or not. How many games did they lose because he refused to replace an obviously ineffective Watson as his closer? And how many games have they lost since, because he lets Rivero sit out games while less effective relievers lose them? He frequently writes out lineups doomed to fail because he seems to prefer watching productive players sit and rest rather than play and win. Hurdle's nonchalant attitude towards winning seems to fall directly in line with the FO's apparent indifference toward roster building. Hurdle seems to know he doesn't have to win. Winning is nice but not necessary. He and NH will surely get their extensions.
Maybe the plan was to use the season for experimenting and player development. Just win enough to keep fans coming to the park. They tried to develop Glasnow as a starter and Watson as a closer and let them fail and fail and fail until they just couldn't sell it to the fans anymore. They're letting Frazier and Osuna (and Polanco) learn to play the OF instead of even acquiring a legit backup. They try different lineups and different defensive alignments nearly every night even if it means sitting a hot hitter who hasn't played more than a handful of games since his last rest. It's not that they're trying to lose but they just aren't putting forth their best efforts to win. Maybe somewhere down the road operating the 2017 team in this manner will pay dividends. But it's getting more and more difficult to watch.
I think I see a different pattern. Without knowing any of those who are constantly complaining about (or supporting for that matter) personally, I wonder just how much attention you pay to other teams.
Admittedly, I am a fantasy baseball fanatic. This influences me to pay attention to other teams situations and monitor for changes. I can assure you, nearly these exact same thoughts occur from fans of EVERY team that is hovering around .500.
Thus, I am concluding that the issues you are bringing up are caused by an adherence to following a single team, rather than the entire sport. By the way, this is not a knock! I love the Pirates also, and am frustrated with the way things are handled, the endless excuses, etc.
However, I think if you were to ask 100 fans of any particular team that is not rebuilding and has a record of, say, .500 or lower, you'd find variations of all of these complaints and supports of optimism. This does not mean things don't need to change. It's more of a validation of the fact that change takes time and patience, something fans don't have because they don't need to. Executives, however, must have those traits and use them when it comes to player performance because they've put those players there with the expectation of success. Therefore, evaluating failure is a process, NOT a reaction.