I like Huntington. He did a great job in turning around the franchise. Lately, he has missed on some trades and his draftees. Not huge misses on trades and his draftees are moving slowly. So, they can pan out for sure. I just expected a faster pace.
Overall, I think Huntington has done a very good job. His positives outweigh the negatives. Until the negatives outweigh the positives, I give him the benefit of the doubt. Right now, I don't know the direction of the team. I (we) usually have an idea.
2018
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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Bobster21
2018
614457425E555E5F5A52360 wrote: It's hard for me to conclude that Huntington hasn't done a good job. Unfortunately, being the GM of the Pirates is one of the most difficult jobs in baseball.
The Pirates were one of the best teams in baseball from 2013-2015. Things went well as they must when you are spending significantly less money than most of your competitors. You have to get the performances you expect and pay for from your best players and you have to get good value from most others. The Pirates had good teams and got some good fortune.
2016 was different. McCutchen and Liriano went from something like 8 WAR to below replacement players. A team funded like the Pirates can't withstand that. In 2017, we had a PED suspension and a visa problem for, again, players who put up about 8 WAR the previous season. The team was built for possible success but the good fortune turned to bad fortune. I know some people want to talk about contingency plans and so forth. There is no contingency plan for your All-Stars sucking or your cheap high-level players not being able to play when you're spending a fraction of much of your competition. The primary reasons for the Pirates lack of success the past two years were unexpected and, therefore, I don't think it's fair to blame them on Huntington.
Do you really think Huntington wouldn't know what to do with a $40 million check from Bob Nutting? I think he probably would have a pretty good idea. But it isn't happening. So, people make complaints that Huntington only gets reclamation projects or forces young guys who might not be ready to make starts. He doesn't have a choice. The Pirates won't win a division without cheap players making big contributions. The dice has to be rolled.
Someone mentioned that Huntington isn't drafting well-enough to succeed with the Pirates. I don't think the draft is that fool-proof but maybe he hasn't been as successful as he needs to be. We do have a few players making important contributions to the team that he drafted, though. It doesn't feel like he's had poor success in that department versus most other teams.
As for 2018, it's business as usual because a re-build isn't necessary. The team isn't that bad and has reasonable hope to be much better. The Pirates have enough pieces to compete. Will the players be available and will they play to capabilities? Will the younger guys, especially the starting pitchers improve?I don't know. But Huntington has to find out. There's no other way.
I don't disagree with that. The problems with this team are laid at the doorstep of Nutting. NH has to assemble a roster on a MLB shoestring budget and Hurdle has to manage such a roster. For NH, that means he has to be a genius at drafting and trading. For Hurdle it means he has to be exceptionally shrewd on game days. But the draft is always uncertain. And NH is prevented by Nutting from making trades for established, productive players because they come with higher salaries. It's a no win situation for NH. And Hurdle is anything BUT exceptional on game days and does more harm than good.
Nutting puts financial constraints on the team that no GM will overcome. NH does well with what he is allowed to do. Hurdle needs to be replaced by someone who will at least get the most out of what he's given to work with. But these last 2 years have essentially had Nutting thumbing his nose at fans as he dismantles the roster to save money.
The Pirates were one of the best teams in baseball from 2013-2015. Things went well as they must when you are spending significantly less money than most of your competitors. You have to get the performances you expect and pay for from your best players and you have to get good value from most others. The Pirates had good teams and got some good fortune.
2016 was different. McCutchen and Liriano went from something like 8 WAR to below replacement players. A team funded like the Pirates can't withstand that. In 2017, we had a PED suspension and a visa problem for, again, players who put up about 8 WAR the previous season. The team was built for possible success but the good fortune turned to bad fortune. I know some people want to talk about contingency plans and so forth. There is no contingency plan for your All-Stars sucking or your cheap high-level players not being able to play when you're spending a fraction of much of your competition. The primary reasons for the Pirates lack of success the past two years were unexpected and, therefore, I don't think it's fair to blame them on Huntington.
Do you really think Huntington wouldn't know what to do with a $40 million check from Bob Nutting? I think he probably would have a pretty good idea. But it isn't happening. So, people make complaints that Huntington only gets reclamation projects or forces young guys who might not be ready to make starts. He doesn't have a choice. The Pirates won't win a division without cheap players making big contributions. The dice has to be rolled.
Someone mentioned that Huntington isn't drafting well-enough to succeed with the Pirates. I don't think the draft is that fool-proof but maybe he hasn't been as successful as he needs to be. We do have a few players making important contributions to the team that he drafted, though. It doesn't feel like he's had poor success in that department versus most other teams.
As for 2018, it's business as usual because a re-build isn't necessary. The team isn't that bad and has reasonable hope to be much better. The Pirates have enough pieces to compete. Will the players be available and will they play to capabilities? Will the younger guys, especially the starting pitchers improve?I don't know. But Huntington has to find out. There's no other way.
I don't disagree with that. The problems with this team are laid at the doorstep of Nutting. NH has to assemble a roster on a MLB shoestring budget and Hurdle has to manage such a roster. For NH, that means he has to be a genius at drafting and trading. For Hurdle it means he has to be exceptionally shrewd on game days. But the draft is always uncertain. And NH is prevented by Nutting from making trades for established, productive players because they come with higher salaries. It's a no win situation for NH. And Hurdle is anything BUT exceptional on game days and does more harm than good.
Nutting puts financial constraints on the team that no GM will overcome. NH does well with what he is allowed to do. Hurdle needs to be replaced by someone who will at least get the most out of what he's given to work with. But these last 2 years have essentially had Nutting thumbing his nose at fans as he dismantles the roster to save money.
2018
032635203C373C3D3830540 wrote: It's hard for me to conclude that Huntington hasn't done a good job. Unfortunately, being the GM of the Pirates is one of the most difficult jobs in baseball.
The Pirates were one of the best teams in baseball from 2013-2015. Things went well as they must when you are spending significantly less money than most of your competitors. You have to get the performances you expect and pay for from your best players and you have to get good value from most others. The Pirates had good teams and got some good fortune.
2016 was different. McCutchen and Liriano went from something like 8 WAR to below replacement players. A team funded like the Pirates can't withstand that. In 2017, we had a PED suspension and a visa problem for, again, players who put up about 8 WAR the previous season. The team was built for possible success but the good fortune turned to bad fortune. I know some people want to talk about contingency plans and so forth. There is no contingency plan for your All-Stars sucking or your cheap high-level players not being able to play when you're spending a fraction of much of your competition. The primary reasons for the Pirates lack of success the past two years were unexpected and, therefore, I don't think it's fair to blame them on Huntington.
Do you really think Huntington wouldn't know what to do with a $40 million check from Bob Nutting? I think he probably would have a pretty good idea. But it isn't happening. So, people make complaints that Huntington only gets reclamation projects or forces young guys who might not be ready to make starts. He doesn't have a choice. The Pirates won't win a division without cheap players making big contributions. The dice has to be rolled.
Someone mentioned that Huntington isn't drafting well-enough to succeed with the Pirates. I don't think the draft is that fool-proof but maybe he hasn't been as successful as he needs to be. We do have a few players making important contributions to the team that he drafted, though. It doesn't feel like he's had poor success in that department versus most other teams.
As for 2018, it's business as usual because a re-build isn't necessary. The team isn't that bad and has reasonable hope to be much better. The Pirates have enough pieces to compete. Will the players be available and will they play to capabilities? Will the younger guys, especially the starting pitchers improve?I don't know. But Huntington has to find out. There's no other way.
I have no problem blaming Huntington for 2017, He brought in Daniel Hudson, he expected Watson to pitch like he did before 2016, he hoped for good season from Bastardo, thought that Wade LeBlanc could be decent (and he was for a stretch), expected Glasnow to be able to hold down a rotation spot. That is a lot of pitching questions right there. Just think if starters would have gotten injured.
Kang and Marte were unexpected but the team did have Freese and Jaso to fill in. Not expecting them to be the same level but should have expected better than replacement level. No idea what team thought of Polanco. Do they regret signing him to multi year deal? Do they have faith he can be a 5 tool player?
How the Pirates evaluate their own players is a key. Do they have more than 3 players that can get an OPS+ of over 100 next season? (only Harrison, Cutch and Bell have this year)
The Pirates were one of the best teams in baseball from 2013-2015. Things went well as they must when you are spending significantly less money than most of your competitors. You have to get the performances you expect and pay for from your best players and you have to get good value from most others. The Pirates had good teams and got some good fortune.
2016 was different. McCutchen and Liriano went from something like 8 WAR to below replacement players. A team funded like the Pirates can't withstand that. In 2017, we had a PED suspension and a visa problem for, again, players who put up about 8 WAR the previous season. The team was built for possible success but the good fortune turned to bad fortune. I know some people want to talk about contingency plans and so forth. There is no contingency plan for your All-Stars sucking or your cheap high-level players not being able to play when you're spending a fraction of much of your competition. The primary reasons for the Pirates lack of success the past two years were unexpected and, therefore, I don't think it's fair to blame them on Huntington.
Do you really think Huntington wouldn't know what to do with a $40 million check from Bob Nutting? I think he probably would have a pretty good idea. But it isn't happening. So, people make complaints that Huntington only gets reclamation projects or forces young guys who might not be ready to make starts. He doesn't have a choice. The Pirates won't win a division without cheap players making big contributions. The dice has to be rolled.
Someone mentioned that Huntington isn't drafting well-enough to succeed with the Pirates. I don't think the draft is that fool-proof but maybe he hasn't been as successful as he needs to be. We do have a few players making important contributions to the team that he drafted, though. It doesn't feel like he's had poor success in that department versus most other teams.
As for 2018, it's business as usual because a re-build isn't necessary. The team isn't that bad and has reasonable hope to be much better. The Pirates have enough pieces to compete. Will the players be available and will they play to capabilities? Will the younger guys, especially the starting pitchers improve?I don't know. But Huntington has to find out. There's no other way.
I have no problem blaming Huntington for 2017, He brought in Daniel Hudson, he expected Watson to pitch like he did before 2016, he hoped for good season from Bastardo, thought that Wade LeBlanc could be decent (and he was for a stretch), expected Glasnow to be able to hold down a rotation spot. That is a lot of pitching questions right there. Just think if starters would have gotten injured.
Kang and Marte were unexpected but the team did have Freese and Jaso to fill in. Not expecting them to be the same level but should have expected better than replacement level. No idea what team thought of Polanco. Do they regret signing him to multi year deal? Do they have faith he can be a 5 tool player?
How the Pirates evaluate their own players is a key. Do they have more than 3 players that can get an OPS+ of over 100 next season? (only Harrison, Cutch and Bell have this year)
2018
545F575B5E5F440107704951585F5F1E535F300 wrote: I like Huntington. He did a great job in turning around the franchise. Lately, he has missed on some trades and his draftees. Not huge misses on trades and his draftees are moving slowly. So, they can pan out for sure. I just expected a faster pace.
Overall, I think Huntington has done a very good job. His positives outweigh the negatives. Until the negatives outweigh the positives, I give him the benefit of the doubt. Right now, I don't know the direction of the team. I (we) usually have an idea.
You and I have a totally different definition of very good. Not surprised by your post at all. I understand he works for a cheap skate, but he had made some very poor decisions the last two seasons. Look at the product. Does this look like a team who's GM has done a very good job? Didn't address starting pitching ... his two off season acquisitions were Gosselin and Hudson ... he traded Walker for disaster Niese and then complicated it more by trading him back to the Muts for Bastardo (talk about a waste of $$$). Traded Watson and brought in a terrible arm from Philly. He has made some good moves, but let's be honest. His track record has gotten worse the last two years.
Overall, I think Huntington has done a very good job. His positives outweigh the negatives. Until the negatives outweigh the positives, I give him the benefit of the doubt. Right now, I don't know the direction of the team. I (we) usually have an idea.
You and I have a totally different definition of very good. Not surprised by your post at all. I understand he works for a cheap skate, but he had made some very poor decisions the last two seasons. Look at the product. Does this look like a team who's GM has done a very good job? Didn't address starting pitching ... his two off season acquisitions were Gosselin and Hudson ... he traded Walker for disaster Niese and then complicated it more by trading him back to the Muts for Bastardo (talk about a waste of $$$). Traded Watson and brought in a terrible arm from Philly. He has made some good moves, but let's be honest. His track record has gotten worse the last two years.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
2018
His track record has got worse the last two years, yes I agree. But why aren't you acknowledging the previous seven years? He turned around one of the worst farm systems ever (Yes, it was horrible). He built a team with many good trades, signings, and extensions to make the playoffs three years in a row. Not many teams do that or have done that.
Again, overall I think he has been very good. I don't know why people are rating him based on 2016 & 2017 only. The positives outweigh the negatives so far. Yeah, that could change but it hasn't yet.
Again, overall I think he has been very good. I don't know why people are rating him based on 2016 & 2017 only. The positives outweigh the negatives so far. Yeah, that could change but it hasn't yet.
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Bobster21
2018
565D55595C5D460305724B535A5D5D1C515D320 wrote: His track record has got worse the last two years, yes I agree. But why aren't you acknowledging the previous seven years? He turned around one of the worst farm systems ever (Yes, it was horrible). He built a team with many good trades, signings, and extensions to make the playoffs three years in a row. Not many teams do that or have done that.
Again, overall I think he has been very good. I don't know why people are rating him based on 2016 & 2017 only. The positives outweigh the negatives so far. Yeah, that could change but it hasn't yet.
NH's mission was not merely to improve a horrible farm system and to make an awful organization better. It was to compete for a championship. In that vein, after improving the overall organization, he was 1-2 in WC games and lost the only playoff series he was in. Then the team crashed and burned the next 2 years. I give him a pass because he's severely limited by the budget. But I don't think we should give him a parade just because the horrible organization is now less horrible.
Again, overall I think he has been very good. I don't know why people are rating him based on 2016 & 2017 only. The positives outweigh the negatives so far. Yeah, that could change but it hasn't yet.
NH's mission was not merely to improve a horrible farm system and to make an awful organization better. It was to compete for a championship. In that vein, after improving the overall organization, he was 1-2 in WC games and lost the only playoff series he was in. Then the team crashed and burned the next 2 years. I give him a pass because he's severely limited by the budget. But I don't think we should give him a parade just because the horrible organization is now less horrible.
2018
5D565E5257564D080E794058515656175A56390 wrote: His track record has got worse the last two years, yes I agree. But why aren't you acknowledging the previous seven years? He turned around one of the worst farm systems ever (Yes, it was horrible). He built a team with many good trades, signings, and extensions to make the playoffs three years in a row. Not many teams do that or have done that.
Again, overall I think he has been very good. I don't know why people are rating him based on 2016 & 2017 only. The positives outweigh the negatives so far. Yeah, that could change but it hasn't yet.
Very good is a joke. Great, he did well for three or four years ... made some good moves in which we found a way to get into the wild card game. The last two years, we have done what? Nutting is an awful owner to work for. However, you look at this franchise right now, its garbage again. You think it will improve next year as far as other good pieces coming in? Nope. I gave him credit for good moves. Why can't you acknowledge a bad move when it happens? I shake my head at the way you defend this organization and the way its trending and you want to give him a complete pass for the last two years? This is resembling what we had for two decades before. As Bobster said lets not give him a parade for making a horrible organization less horrible. You see to want to create a statue and put him next to Clemente.
Again, overall I think he has been very good. I don't know why people are rating him based on 2016 & 2017 only. The positives outweigh the negatives so far. Yeah, that could change but it hasn't yet.
Very good is a joke. Great, he did well for three or four years ... made some good moves in which we found a way to get into the wild card game. The last two years, we have done what? Nutting is an awful owner to work for. However, you look at this franchise right now, its garbage again. You think it will improve next year as far as other good pieces coming in? Nope. I gave him credit for good moves. Why can't you acknowledge a bad move when it happens? I shake my head at the way you defend this organization and the way its trending and you want to give him a complete pass for the last two years? This is resembling what we had for two decades before. As Bobster said lets not give him a parade for making a horrible organization less horrible. You see to want to create a statue and put him next to Clemente.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
2018
After the rebuild, they did compete for the Championship. Did you miss the playoffs from 2013-2015? How is that not competing?
Sorry, for looking at the whole picture instead of the last two years. I would think die hard fans would understand the state of the farm system in 2007. And the state of the whole organization which hasn't had a winning season in 15 years.
Huntington had his run. He needs to do it again. If he doesn't, he probably will be fired. Because of his past success, I am willing to give him the benefit of doubt. I'm not saying I'm happy right now, but I think Huntington can do it again. I don't know what is in store going forward. It's also the first time since 2011 I am not sure of the direction of the major league team.
Sorry, for looking at the whole picture instead of the last two years. I would think die hard fans would understand the state of the farm system in 2007. And the state of the whole organization which hasn't had a winning season in 15 years.
Huntington had his run. He needs to do it again. If he doesn't, he probably will be fired. Because of his past success, I am willing to give him the benefit of doubt. I'm not saying I'm happy right now, but I think Huntington can do it again. I don't know what is in store going forward. It's also the first time since 2011 I am not sure of the direction of the major league team.
2018
as soon as NH is gone, all the defense will quickly evaporate. Short of a complete 180 in trade aggressiveness and/or FA acquisition this offseason, we're in the wilderness. Or we get lucky and Kang gets his Visa and we get lucky with a couple of these failing, awesome talented prospects we refuse to trade.
The new GM will then be the greatest thing since sliced bread and all of the sudden, overnight, NH will become an inadequate drafter and a bad trader.
The new GM will then be the greatest thing since sliced bread and all of the sudden, overnight, NH will become an inadequate drafter and a bad trader.
2018
5E555D5154554E0B0D7A435B5255551459553A0 wrote: After the rebuild, they did compete for the Championship. Did you miss the playoffs from 2013-2015? How is that not competing?
Sorry, for looking at the whole picture instead of the last two years. I would think die hard fans would understand the state of the farm system in 2007. And the state of the whole organization which hasn't had a winning season in 15 years.
Huntington had his run. He needs to do it again. If he doesn't, he probably will be fired. Because of his past success, I am willing to give him the benefit of doubt. I'm not saying I'm happy right now, but I think Huntington can do it again. I don't know what is in store going forward. It's also the first time since 2011 I am not sure of the direction of the major league team.
What's the state of the farm system right now? only include AA and AAA please. Low minors is just a bunch of guesswork and totally unreliable. Why isn't the farm producing Dog? We have traded away virtually none of it to fill ML holes.
What highly touted prospects in AA and AAA am I missing?
Sorry, for looking at the whole picture instead of the last two years. I would think die hard fans would understand the state of the farm system in 2007. And the state of the whole organization which hasn't had a winning season in 15 years.
Huntington had his run. He needs to do it again. If he doesn't, he probably will be fired. Because of his past success, I am willing to give him the benefit of doubt. I'm not saying I'm happy right now, but I think Huntington can do it again. I don't know what is in store going forward. It's also the first time since 2011 I am not sure of the direction of the major league team.
What's the state of the farm system right now? only include AA and AAA please. Low minors is just a bunch of guesswork and totally unreliable. Why isn't the farm producing Dog? We have traded away virtually none of it to fill ML holes.
What highly touted prospects in AA and AAA am I missing?