Stats

PMike · Post by **PMike** » Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:59 am

262F273638420 wrote: Dominant numbers. He never had a stretch of that many innings here with those results, and they're the first innings he has in Tampa?

Hope he keeps it going and Searage is finally replaced.

I don't think it is Searage's fault that Glasnow goes there and immediately is successful. I mean, if the coaching there had a chance to work with him and then he improved, that would be one thing. TB has even admitted that they weren't messing with him until they had a chance to watch him pitch a little bit. He just simply went to a new setting and has been dominant. How is that Searage's fault?

He already said he's been told to pitch differently. Changing eye levels . https://www.draysbay.com/2018/8/7/17653 ... can-change

Thanks for posting that link. My response was really after hearing their manager speaking in game during Glasnow's first start (which I watched free on MLBTV). He said then that they weren't messing with him at the time.

I'm an unabashed Glasnow fan. I think it was a terrible move for them to include him in that trade. I would have added any other prospect not named Keller in Glasnow's place.

OTOH, it was clear they had moved on from Glasnow. Holmes and Kingham had both gotten starts over him before he was traded.

Many on here were glad to see him go and thought the Rays foolish for taking him. I think it was a mistake that we couldn't find a place for him in the rotation and it was a mistake that we traded him.

To your point, I still think it is hard to blame Searage for his immediate success. However, I understand the criticism. The success Cole and Morton have had warrants the criticism of Searage. The Pirates will deserve a ton of criticism if he goes on to be a dominant pitcher. Pirates fans should feel very uncomfortable right now. He has always had dominant stuff. The Pirates couldn't figure out how to let him be successful.

dmetz · Post by **dmetz** » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:27 am

I don't think it was a mistake to include him. We have demonstrated substantial developmental problems when it comes to starting pitchers.

It's hard to quantify until a starter leaves here, uses a different approach than our low in the zone, 2-seam, moar fastballs strategy... and succeeds

To me, you couldn't cook up a scenario that make our staff and developmental guys look more inept than a top prospect we're unable to squeeze any value from at all after years of trying going to another team and immediately realizing his potential.

It's like the dictionary definition of organizational incompetence, to me. Cole and Morton, we got value from just not enough. Not the case with TG

DemDog · Post by **DemDog** » Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:21 am

I think we are seeing how Uncle Ray and the entire Bucs pitching gurus missed the boat with Glasnow. Instead of working with him to harness his big tall frame and allow him to pitch how he feels best they insisted on their low ball pitching in order to get the ground ball with a less than good infield defense. Tampa is allowing Glasnow to pitch with his strengths. Uncle Ray and the Bucs need to think outside that low in the zone pitching philosophy when necessary.

Bobster21 · Post by **Bobster21** » Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:47 am

Hard to know what to think of Searage. He's had success with veterans who were once good, lost it, and came on as reclamation projects. But he has much less success with young, developing pitchers, Cole was regressing for 2 years. Morton never lived up to expectations. Jeff Locke was a waste. But Taillon seems to be progressing well. Williams is pitching great now despite an inability to overpower hitters. Musgrove is doing well despite being terrible as a starter for Houston for half a season last year. Vazquez, Crick, Santana and Rodriguez are all young and doing well in the BP. Glasnow was supposed to have outstanding stuff and was unhittable in the minors yet couldn't make it with the Bucs. Always seemed to suffer greatly from lack of confidence. Seemed to want to avoid throwing the ball anywhere near the plate. Banished to the bullpen mostly for mop up duty. There could be no greater boost to his confidence than to have another team want to acquire him and immediately start him. Now he's going after hitters instead of trying to avoid them. So how much is the change due to a different pitching philosophy in TB? How much is due to him suddenly feeling confident on the mound? All of which makes it very difficult to assess both Glasnow and Searage.

mouse · Post by **mouse** » Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:43 pm

Particularly with Glasnow, who seemed to be gaining confidence in his last performances in Pittsburgh. It could just be an extenuation of that.

CTBucco · Post by **CTBucco** » Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:13 pm

Can anyone point out any notable improvement for any "power pitcher" under Searage's tutelage?

My sense is that he has an approach that can benefit certain pitchers. It may even lift the mean performance for a staff while reducing the output of top performers when forced on everyone.

I've seen plenty of similar situations in business where a process is imposed on a whole organization. That process can significantly improve the output of the underperformers and the average but can also reduce the output of top performers by placing unnecessary constraints or added tasks on them. The organization as a whole may improve, but it does not reach its max potential because the top performers are compressed down toward the mean resulting in a narrower overall performance band.

maher.timothy20@gm · Post by **maher.timothy20@gm** » Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:28 pm

222B23323C460 wrote: Dominant numbers. He never had a stretch of that many innings here with those results.

Because we never gave him a chance to start this year. >:(

Ecbucs · Post by **Ecbucs** » Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:13 pm

3C303934237F25383C3E253928636111363C510 wrote: Dominant numbers. He never had a stretch of that many innings here with those results.

Because we never gave him a chance to start this year. >:(

in some ways that is Glasnow's fault. He was going to be out of options and it was unlikely he was going to make the starting rotation at the beginning of the season. He was tried in the bullpen to put less pressure on him. If he would have shown better control against major league hitters last season he may have come into spring training this year with a shot at being in the rotation.

SammyKhalifa · Post by **SammyKhalifa** » Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:24 pm

Yeah, I'm guessing a lot of people here would have been upset had they named him a starter.

DemDog · Post by **DemDog** » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:15 pm

I look at it this way. I am glad for Glasnow and hope he does well with the Rays. If he turns into another Pedro Martinez or Randy Johnson so be it. The Buccos did not develop him correctly or gave up too soon. He is a Ray now and that is water over the dam. We can harp until kingdom come about him being elsewhere and pitching lights out.

I am looking forward to Archer doing well (hopefully!) and the rest of the young kid pitchers in the organization fulfilling their promise and making the Buccos real contenders for a WS win.