Is this season over yet???
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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rucker59@gmail.com
Is this season over yet???
The baseball draft doesn't lend itself to building solely around homegrown talent. If the Steelers need a corner back they draft one. In baseball (almost all teams) draft best talent rather than need and acquire the position not filled internally. The Pirates plan to bring "the next guy up" even though the next guy up down grades the team.
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ChitownBucco
- Posts: 492
- Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:10 pm
Is this season over yet???
4B4C5A525C4B0C00795E54585055175A5654390 wrote: I think we have to start thinking of this as a development year. Keep running Glasnow out there, give Bell a chance to settle in as a major league player, find out if McCutchen has anything left, if Polanco has anything at all, what kind of ballplayer PED-less Marte will be, etc. Rebuilding implies you have something to tear down. What do we have to sell off other than Cole?
Either Polanco or Marte has to go as well IMHO. And the big one - prospects. Somebody else said this - there has been a serious miss on most of our "can't miss" prospects. There has to be better talent evaluation and then timely trades with those over valued (industry wide) prospects.
why do they have to go?
would you really just sell low and dump them now?
also I don't think there has been a serious miss on our can't miss prospects. I would venture we have more pan out than the average team during this FO regime..
I'd say we fill our roster with home grown talent more than most teams, but almost all of this talent is average or below.
We don't have All Star caliber talent on This team (Other than Cole or Nova potentially).
EDIT - I should say "we don't have all stars on this team; I do think there is very good potential to rebuild around: Tallion and Bell are most obvious. Marte or Polanco could yet become elite (but the team needs to get this right - they need to keep the right player and trade the other). Meadows hopefully. There are potentially some above average pieces here but they need to be supplemented.
Marte WAS elite. whether he will be going forward who knows?
but he pooped the bed for us this year that is for sure.
but you can't say he didn't pan out, as he was near top 10 in WAR for his full seasons 2013 thru 2016 with 20.5 and was a big reason why we contended in those years.
Either Polanco or Marte has to go as well IMHO. And the big one - prospects. Somebody else said this - there has been a serious miss on most of our "can't miss" prospects. There has to be better talent evaluation and then timely trades with those over valued (industry wide) prospects.
why do they have to go?
would you really just sell low and dump them now?
also I don't think there has been a serious miss on our can't miss prospects. I would venture we have more pan out than the average team during this FO regime..
I'd say we fill our roster with home grown talent more than most teams, but almost all of this talent is average or below.
We don't have All Star caliber talent on This team (Other than Cole or Nova potentially).
EDIT - I should say "we don't have all stars on this team; I do think there is very good potential to rebuild around: Tallion and Bell are most obvious. Marte or Polanco could yet become elite (but the team needs to get this right - they need to keep the right player and trade the other). Meadows hopefully. There are potentially some above average pieces here but they need to be supplemented.
Marte WAS elite. whether he will be going forward who knows?
but he pooped the bed for us this year that is for sure.
but you can't say he didn't pan out, as he was near top 10 in WAR for his full seasons 2013 thru 2016 with 20.5 and was a big reason why we contended in those years.
Is this season over yet???
I don't know that the team is that bad, but the situation is that bad. Two of our best players are out for at least half the season, and we have absolutely no depth. This could have been a special season had everything gone right, but of course that never happens. And so far pretty much everything has gone wrong. I try to be the optimist, but I don't think they have the horses to dig out of this hole. :-[
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CutchisaBoss
Is this season over yet???
We did lose 10 in a row one year and still made the postseason. I think this week has a lot to do with the shocking news the team got about Taillon.
It's on life support currently...but, if they can pull off 4 or 5 in a row, who knows?
It's on life support currently...but, if they can pull off 4 or 5 in a row, who knows?
Is this season over yet???
It is possible for things to turn around. However, I think it is unlikely.
I am not ready to throw in the towel on Cutch but if he is still struggling by June 15 I will throw it as far as I can.
Without Kang and Marte, Bell, Cutch and Polanco need to hit for the Bucs to have a decent offense.
Pitching looks like it will be weak over the long haul and part of that is because of the poor defense.
I expected Cutch, Polanco and Marte to be the majors best defensive outfield last year (maybe the best the Pirates have ever had). Instead, outfield defense has become a weakness and having Frazier, Osuna or Harrison out there doesn't help.
Instead of a team of solid players with few weaknesses and players with a couple of superior tools the Bucs appear to be a lineup of mostly average players because everyone has a serious flaw or two.
Maybe a lot of it is just a team slump but slumps don't last for 3 or 4 months. Hoping things turn around and glad it is not my job to get the Pirates to play better.
I am not ready to throw in the towel on Cutch but if he is still struggling by June 15 I will throw it as far as I can.
Without Kang and Marte, Bell, Cutch and Polanco need to hit for the Bucs to have a decent offense.
Pitching looks like it will be weak over the long haul and part of that is because of the poor defense.
I expected Cutch, Polanco and Marte to be the majors best defensive outfield last year (maybe the best the Pirates have ever had). Instead, outfield defense has become a weakness and having Frazier, Osuna or Harrison out there doesn't help.
Instead of a team of solid players with few weaknesses and players with a couple of superior tools the Bucs appear to be a lineup of mostly average players because everyone has a serious flaw or two.
Maybe a lot of it is just a team slump but slumps don't last for 3 or 4 months. Hoping things turn around and glad it is not my job to get the Pirates to play better.
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Speedloader88
- Posts: 134
- Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 2:04 am
Is this season over yet???
Now is exactly the right time for one of our grinders to check a baserunner hard into the dug out and then drop his glove and throw hay makers! That energizes the bench and gets the crowd into the game, causing a synergistic exchange between players and fans!! I have seen many a game turn on a play such as this and it can turn a series or a season!! I know this team isn't currently constructed for toughness and we have no professional brawler but maybe Gft or Stewart could provide the spark we need!
Is this season over yet???
This team has a host of weaknesses and few strengths.
Base running is horrible. Without Marte, there is no one on this team that seems to have better than a 50 - 50 chance of stealing a base. But perhaps more damaging is the number of stupid mistakes on the bases and the inability to take another base when the situation warrants.
Defense often is laughable. Mercer likely is a plus defensive shortstop and Cervelli is a decent defensive catcher, and Harrison, when he is at second is a plus. The remaining players are a minus, and some are really bad. Current defense will cost the team games.
In the bullpen, Rivero is a real plus, Leblanc has been better than expected, and Nicassio is generally good for 1 inning. Watson is really shaky, Hudson has been frightfully bad, and Barbato and Lindblom are neither here nor there.
Bell and Frazier and perhaps Harrison have been the only bright spots on the offense. Team has limited power and poor on base percentage skills. While he may catch fire (and I hope that he does), Cutch does not look like a player who is in the prime of his career.
The only plus appeared to be the starting pitching with Nova, Cole and Tallion all pitching well, and with some good games from Kuhl and even Glasgow. That said, Tallion's injury has resulted in losing a plus pitcher and now inserting another question mark. The inability of Kuhl, Glasnow and Williams to go deep into a game or even 6 innings on a regular basis will ultimately put a strain on the bullpen that it cannot sustain.
While it was good to see the Bucs win the last 2 games against the Diamondbacks, it is hard for me to imagine this team suddenly turning it on. I hope that I am wrong. I and other Pirate fans suffered through 20 years of losing and I don't believe I can sustain another period of little hope.
Lastly, I continue to have confidence in NH and his ability to squeeze about as much as you can while trying to operate with a budget of about $100 mil. For example, Nova appears to be a really good free agent signing, Rivero and Hearn for Melanson was an astute trade, and Leblanc has been a nice find. While Hudson has underperformed to date, he may still turn out to be a good signing. That said, if the Bucs do flounder and the team decides to retool, this year's trade deadline could be his biggest challenge yet.
How does NH deal that few assets that he has to acquire talent that is on the verge of playing in the majors? For example:
Does McCutchen have any value other than a salary dump?
What is Cervelli or Watson worth?
With his improved hitting and versatility, does J-Hay now have value?
Polanco or Marte --- would someone bite?
Although he's been really good --- what would someone now pay for Rivero (Trade him at his peak)?
And, what about Cole? Would someone like the Yankees overpay?
My preference is to think about how all or most of the above players are performing and leading the team to victories, but if they are not, time to retool (not rebuild). Bring in talented youth and see how they do.
Base running is horrible. Without Marte, there is no one on this team that seems to have better than a 50 - 50 chance of stealing a base. But perhaps more damaging is the number of stupid mistakes on the bases and the inability to take another base when the situation warrants.
Defense often is laughable. Mercer likely is a plus defensive shortstop and Cervelli is a decent defensive catcher, and Harrison, when he is at second is a plus. The remaining players are a minus, and some are really bad. Current defense will cost the team games.
In the bullpen, Rivero is a real plus, Leblanc has been better than expected, and Nicassio is generally good for 1 inning. Watson is really shaky, Hudson has been frightfully bad, and Barbato and Lindblom are neither here nor there.
Bell and Frazier and perhaps Harrison have been the only bright spots on the offense. Team has limited power and poor on base percentage skills. While he may catch fire (and I hope that he does), Cutch does not look like a player who is in the prime of his career.
The only plus appeared to be the starting pitching with Nova, Cole and Tallion all pitching well, and with some good games from Kuhl and even Glasgow. That said, Tallion's injury has resulted in losing a plus pitcher and now inserting another question mark. The inability of Kuhl, Glasnow and Williams to go deep into a game or even 6 innings on a regular basis will ultimately put a strain on the bullpen that it cannot sustain.
While it was good to see the Bucs win the last 2 games against the Diamondbacks, it is hard for me to imagine this team suddenly turning it on. I hope that I am wrong. I and other Pirate fans suffered through 20 years of losing and I don't believe I can sustain another period of little hope.
Lastly, I continue to have confidence in NH and his ability to squeeze about as much as you can while trying to operate with a budget of about $100 mil. For example, Nova appears to be a really good free agent signing, Rivero and Hearn for Melanson was an astute trade, and Leblanc has been a nice find. While Hudson has underperformed to date, he may still turn out to be a good signing. That said, if the Bucs do flounder and the team decides to retool, this year's trade deadline could be his biggest challenge yet.
How does NH deal that few assets that he has to acquire talent that is on the verge of playing in the majors? For example:
Does McCutchen have any value other than a salary dump?
What is Cervelli or Watson worth?
With his improved hitting and versatility, does J-Hay now have value?
Polanco or Marte --- would someone bite?
Although he's been really good --- what would someone now pay for Rivero (Trade him at his peak)?
And, what about Cole? Would someone like the Yankees overpay?
My preference is to think about how all or most of the above players are performing and leading the team to victories, but if they are not, time to retool (not rebuild). Bring in talented youth and see how they do.
Is this season over yet???
For those of you on the rebuild track (I'm undecided), should the Pirates think about trading Nova? Two years left at 8.5 million a year. That's a bargain for someone who currently looks like a 2/3 starting pitcher.
At this point, I think he's the second most attractive trade prospect (after Cole) on the roster.
At this point, I think he's the second most attractive trade prospect (after Cole) on the roster.
Is this season over yet???
Marte is very good borderline elite. Cole is very good. Nova is very good. Taillon is good and very injury prone. Kang is elite and very stupid.
jHay is about average. Mercer the same. Cutch the same. Bell looks about average already(very good for the future). Freese is average, Frazier is average.
Kuhl is below average to terrible. Williams is below average to terrible. Watson is a below average. Osuna is below average. Ngope is below average
Glasnow is utterly terrible. Hudson as well
jHay is about average. Mercer the same. Cutch the same. Bell looks about average already(very good for the future). Freese is average, Frazier is average.
Kuhl is below average to terrible. Williams is below average to terrible. Watson is a below average. Osuna is below average. Ngope is below average
Glasnow is utterly terrible. Hudson as well
Is this season over yet???
If you are looking for trade prospects, how about Rivero? The Nationals are desperate for a closer and lamenting Rivero's loss in the Melancon trade. Baker is quoted as saying (on the closer issue), something to the effect that no one is making trades right now so you have to wait it out. Seems NH has said something along those lines just recently.
Not saying you should make that trade, but when two people are saying they would make a trade if only people were trading, it makes you wonder just how sincere the sentiment is.
Not saying you should make that trade, but when two people are saying they would make a trade if only people were trading, it makes you wonder just how sincere the sentiment is.