I was not a fan of management's decision to add so many veterans, particularly players who may be facing steep declines in production (Cutch & Santana), or who were never very productive (Choi, Hedges & Vasquez). While Hill has been pounded in some spring training games, he may still work out (read minimally effective), and if he doesn't, its not like he has taken a starting spot away from a pitcher in the minors who is ready to break out.
Also, if BC knew he was going to be required (or able) to sign Cutch, I doubt that he would have added Connor Joe (or even Choi) to the roster. Garcia, who likely was the best veteran add this off-season (and who was cheap), unfortunately may be out for an extended period of time (and perhaps the season).
By mid-June, if the veterans are not producing and there are players in the minors who are, then the Bucs should move on and replace them with younger players. The money shouldn't matter at that point because it has already been committed, and the replacement cost to bring players up from the minors should be minimal (under $5 mil). Obviously, the most difficult decision would be Cutch. However, if he is hitting .175 with limited power, I would hope that he would approach management to talk about retiring mid-season.
I was hoping to see the club make some positive strides this year. At present, I do not have a lot of high hopes, but hey, I have been wrong before and will be again.
As spring training winds down ...
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
-
maher.timothy20@gm
As spring training winds down ...
153931363D1A2D3B2B580 wrote: I was not a fan of management's decision to add so many veterans, particularly players who may be facing steep declines in production (Cutch & Santana), or who were never very productive (Choi, Hedges & Vasquez). While Hill has been pounded in some spring training games, he may still work out (read minimally effective), and if he doesn't, its not like he has taken a starting spot away from a pitcher in the minors who is ready to break out.
Also, if BC knew he was going to be required (or able) to sign Cutch, I doubt that he would have added Connor Joe (or even Choi) to the roster. Garcia, who likely was the best veteran add this off-season (and who was cheap), unfortunately may be out for an extended period of time (and perhaps the season).
By mid-June, if the veterans are not producing and there are players in the minors who are, then the Bucs should move on and replace them with younger players. The money shouldn't matter at that point because it has already been committed, and the replacement cost to bring players up from the minors should be minimal (under $5 mil). Obviously, the most difficult decision would be Cutch. However, if he is hitting .175 with limited power, I would hope that he would approach management to talk about retiring mid-season.
I was hoping to see the club make some positive strides this year. At present, I do not have a lot of high hopes, but hey, I have been wrong before and will be again.
I agree with everyone who says the pitching will be a disaster. Even when guys like Priester, Burrows and Ortiz make it up there will be an adjustment period.
I wish they'd saved up the money they spent on Hill, Velasquez, and Choi and gone after somebody like Taillon.
My focus is strictly going to be: can they be better in the second half when the likes of Swaggerty, Endy, Davis, Nunez, Priester, Burrows, etc. come up?
Also, if BC knew he was going to be required (or able) to sign Cutch, I doubt that he would have added Connor Joe (or even Choi) to the roster. Garcia, who likely was the best veteran add this off-season (and who was cheap), unfortunately may be out for an extended period of time (and perhaps the season).
By mid-June, if the veterans are not producing and there are players in the minors who are, then the Bucs should move on and replace them with younger players. The money shouldn't matter at that point because it has already been committed, and the replacement cost to bring players up from the minors should be minimal (under $5 mil). Obviously, the most difficult decision would be Cutch. However, if he is hitting .175 with limited power, I would hope that he would approach management to talk about retiring mid-season.
I was hoping to see the club make some positive strides this year. At present, I do not have a lot of high hopes, but hey, I have been wrong before and will be again.
I agree with everyone who says the pitching will be a disaster. Even when guys like Priester, Burrows and Ortiz make it up there will be an adjustment period.
I wish they'd saved up the money they spent on Hill, Velasquez, and Choi and gone after somebody like Taillon.
My focus is strictly going to be: can they be better in the second half when the likes of Swaggerty, Endy, Davis, Nunez, Priester, Burrows, etc. come up?
-
2drfischer@gmail.c
As spring training winds down ...
705651444D41564048230 wrote: I've lost the optimism I had before ST. Very few guys showed a sense of urgency about making the team,[highlight] and the two who did were sent down (Swaggerty and Endy)[/highlight]. Not one starter has shown any consistency. The bats are full of holes, but not displaying power. Oh well, Cutch is here to root for and Hayes and Cruz have been solid. I'm sure Reynolds will come around eventually. If CS-N isn't one of the starting OF what's the point of ST?
Surg, Bobster pointed out that Swaggerty was sent down most likely to avoid the Super 2 situation. The same can probably be said for Endy. The Pirates are never going to let a rookie go north with the team. Saving money trumps winning ball games every time. Sadly, we're not the Cardinals or Yankees.
Surg, Bobster pointed out that Swaggerty was sent down most likely to avoid the Super 2 situation. The same can probably be said for Endy. The Pirates are never going to let a rookie go north with the team. Saving money trumps winning ball games every time. Sadly, we're not the Cardinals or Yankees.
As spring training winds down ...
I agree that the Pirates pinch pennies and nickels as much as any team in baseball. That said, I'm not sure that the Super 2 status was that big of a factor in the roster decisions regarding Swaggerty and Rodriguez.
I would point out that Canaan Smith Njigba made the final roster and that he is subject to the same Super 2 considerations as Rodriguez and Swaggerty. And, there is some likelihood that Canaan will play only 3 times a week with Joe, Cutch, and Suwinski all on the roster and Bae also able to play OF.
I am a fan of Rodriguez and really want to see him in Pittsburgh, but I believe the Pirates really want to see him get some more at-bats in AAA before bringing him up, and hopefully bringing him up for good. He also is 22 (23 in late May), so I am not overly concerned regarding him not being in Pittsburgh to start the season. That said, if he hits at AAA, I would hope that he is in Pittsburgh by mid-June. Clearly, neither Hedges or Delay are great shakes at the plate.
I believe there are 2 main reasons that Swaggerty did not make the opening roster. One is Smith-Njigba's spring performance. The second is that the signing of both Cutch and Joe limited the number of outfield spots that were available. That said, a strong case could be made for sending Suwinski back to AAA and awarding his at-bats to Smith-Njigba and Swaggerty. Unlike Rodriguez, Swaggerty is getting a bit long in the tooth for being a real prospect and Pittsburgh needs to present him a chance to sink or swim in the not too distant future.
I would point out that Canaan Smith Njigba made the final roster and that he is subject to the same Super 2 considerations as Rodriguez and Swaggerty. And, there is some likelihood that Canaan will play only 3 times a week with Joe, Cutch, and Suwinski all on the roster and Bae also able to play OF.
I am a fan of Rodriguez and really want to see him in Pittsburgh, but I believe the Pirates really want to see him get some more at-bats in AAA before bringing him up, and hopefully bringing him up for good. He also is 22 (23 in late May), so I am not overly concerned regarding him not being in Pittsburgh to start the season. That said, if he hits at AAA, I would hope that he is in Pittsburgh by mid-June. Clearly, neither Hedges or Delay are great shakes at the plate.
I believe there are 2 main reasons that Swaggerty did not make the opening roster. One is Smith-Njigba's spring performance. The second is that the signing of both Cutch and Joe limited the number of outfield spots that were available. That said, a strong case could be made for sending Suwinski back to AAA and awarding his at-bats to Smith-Njigba and Swaggerty. Unlike Rodriguez, Swaggerty is getting a bit long in the tooth for being a real prospect and Pittsburgh needs to present him a chance to sink or swim in the not too distant future.
-
2drfischer@gmail.c
As spring training winds down ...
6C40484F4463544252210 wrote: I agree that the Pirates pinch pennies and nickels as much as any team in baseball. That said, I'm not sure that the Super 2 status was that big of a factor in the roster decisions regarding Swaggerty and Rodriguez.
I would point out that Canaan Smith Njigba made the final roster and that he is subject to the same Super 2 considerations as Rodriguez and Swaggerty. And, there is some likelihood that Canaan will play only 3 times a week with Joe, Cutch, and Suwinski all on the roster and Bae also able to play OF.
I am a fan of Rodriguez and really want to see him in Pittsburgh, but I believe the Pirates really want to see him get some more at-bats in AAA before bringing him up, and hopefully bringing him up for good. He also is 22 (23 in late May), so I am not overly concerned regarding him not being in Pittsburgh to start the season. That said, if he hits at AAA, I would hope that he is in Pittsburgh by mid-June. Clearly, neither Hedges or Delay are great shakes at the plate.
I believe there are 2 main reasons that Swaggerty did not make the opening roster. One is Smith-Njigba's spring performance. The second is that the signing of both Cutch and Joe limited the number of outfield spots that were available. That said, a strong case could be made for sending Suwinski back to AAA and awarding his at-bats to Smith-Njigba and Swaggerty. Unlike Rodriguez, Swaggerty is getting a bit long in the tooth for being a real prospect and Pittsburgh needs to present him a chance to sink or swim in the not too distant future.
All fair points. For me, the bottom line is this: is Swaggerty one of the three or four best outfielders and is Endy the best catcher? If one or both is true, then they should be in the starting line-up in Pittsburgh because this season is about getting what will be the core in 2024 ready to meet the demands of a playoff chase.
It looks like I’m wrong about the Pirates not bringing a rookie north if Smith-Njigba does make the team. It’s a shocker the Front Office would do it. I hope he doesn’t sit for days at a time even when others might be struggling.
I would point out that Canaan Smith Njigba made the final roster and that he is subject to the same Super 2 considerations as Rodriguez and Swaggerty. And, there is some likelihood that Canaan will play only 3 times a week with Joe, Cutch, and Suwinski all on the roster and Bae also able to play OF.
I am a fan of Rodriguez and really want to see him in Pittsburgh, but I believe the Pirates really want to see him get some more at-bats in AAA before bringing him up, and hopefully bringing him up for good. He also is 22 (23 in late May), so I am not overly concerned regarding him not being in Pittsburgh to start the season. That said, if he hits at AAA, I would hope that he is in Pittsburgh by mid-June. Clearly, neither Hedges or Delay are great shakes at the plate.
I believe there are 2 main reasons that Swaggerty did not make the opening roster. One is Smith-Njigba's spring performance. The second is that the signing of both Cutch and Joe limited the number of outfield spots that were available. That said, a strong case could be made for sending Suwinski back to AAA and awarding his at-bats to Smith-Njigba and Swaggerty. Unlike Rodriguez, Swaggerty is getting a bit long in the tooth for being a real prospect and Pittsburgh needs to present him a chance to sink or swim in the not too distant future.
All fair points. For me, the bottom line is this: is Swaggerty one of the three or four best outfielders and is Endy the best catcher? If one or both is true, then they should be in the starting line-up in Pittsburgh because this season is about getting what will be the core in 2024 ready to meet the demands of a playoff chase.
It looks like I’m wrong about the Pirates not bringing a rookie north if Smith-Njigba does make the team. It’s a shocker the Front Office would do it. I hope he doesn’t sit for days at a time even when others might be struggling.
-
GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
As spring training winds down ...
Thoughts When I Have Too Much Time On My Hands...
There's a difference between winning RS games and making The Dance. There's a difference between making The Dance.....and making The Sweet Sixteen.
There's a difference between making The Sweet Sixteen and The Final Four. There's a difference between making The Final Four and winning it.
Same's true in other sports, and no less true in MLB.
Being competitive during games is one thing. Being competitive for one of the 14 PS berths, especially in a lesser division is another. Considered by most to be capable of a run to the LCS is another.
I'm operating with the presumption that both Bednar and Reynolds will be dumped sometime this season. I'm not faulting management or players for this. I'm only stating what I think the outcomes are going to be.
I also think that Cutch and Santana will not be with us next season. They very well could be on the team. I'm only stating that I think they won't be.
So, who's left? Hayes, Cruz, Choi, Bae, Castro, and a pitching staff that doesn't strike me as being all that good.
So, if someone's willing to punt yet more season away and counting on the club to be a whole lot better, it seems to me that they're placing a heavy weight on LMGs and whatever veterans may be added along the way. In some cases, adding veterans could mean parting with some of the young guys in the system.
It might be just me, but I don't think that we're as "close" as some make it out to be. The pitching is what it is. It's not the pitching staff of a better club by any means. I'm not counting yet on the club being all that much better for a while.
This has been my source of frustration for a while; what I consider to be a permanent lack of urgency. This sense of urgency should begin from on high, then trickle down to the overall club leadership. I haven't seen it.
Am I missing something/someone pertinent that should cause me to alter this thought?
There's a difference between winning RS games and making The Dance. There's a difference between making The Dance.....and making The Sweet Sixteen.
There's a difference between making The Sweet Sixteen and The Final Four. There's a difference between making The Final Four and winning it.
Same's true in other sports, and no less true in MLB.
Being competitive during games is one thing. Being competitive for one of the 14 PS berths, especially in a lesser division is another. Considered by most to be capable of a run to the LCS is another.
I'm operating with the presumption that both Bednar and Reynolds will be dumped sometime this season. I'm not faulting management or players for this. I'm only stating what I think the outcomes are going to be.
I also think that Cutch and Santana will not be with us next season. They very well could be on the team. I'm only stating that I think they won't be.
So, who's left? Hayes, Cruz, Choi, Bae, Castro, and a pitching staff that doesn't strike me as being all that good.
So, if someone's willing to punt yet more season away and counting on the club to be a whole lot better, it seems to me that they're placing a heavy weight on LMGs and whatever veterans may be added along the way. In some cases, adding veterans could mean parting with some of the young guys in the system.
It might be just me, but I don't think that we're as "close" as some make it out to be. The pitching is what it is. It's not the pitching staff of a better club by any means. I'm not counting yet on the club being all that much better for a while.
This has been my source of frustration for a while; what I consider to be a permanent lack of urgency. This sense of urgency should begin from on high, then trickle down to the overall club leadership. I haven't seen it.
Am I missing something/someone pertinent that should cause me to alter this thought?
As spring training winds down ...
655047474C7547474C4B47220 wrote: Thoughts When I Have Too Much Time On My Hands...
There's a difference between winning RS games and making The Dance. There's a difference between making The Dance.....and making The Sweet Sixteen.
There's a difference between making The Sweet Sixteen and The Final Four. There's a difference between making The Final Four and winning it.
Same's true in other sports, and no less true in MLB.
Being competitive during games is one thing. Being competitive for one of the 14 PS berths, especially in a lesser division is another. Considered by most to be capable of a run to the LCS is another.
I'm operating with the presumption that both Bednar and Reynolds will be dumped sometime this season. I'm not faulting management or players for this. I'm only stating what I think the outcomes are going to be.
I also think that Cutch and Santana will not be with us next season. They very well could be on the team. I'm only stating that I think they won't be.
So, who's left? Hayes, Cruz, Choi, Bae, Castro, and a pitching staff that doesn't strike me as being all that good.
So, if someone's willing to punt yet more season away and counting on the club to be a whole lot better, it seems to me that they're placing a heavy weight on LMGs and whatever veterans may be added along the way. In some cases, adding veterans could mean parting with some of the young guys in the system.
It might be just me, but I don't think that we're as "close" as some make it out to be. The pitching is what it is. It's not the pitching staff of a better club by any means. I'm not counting yet on the club being all that much better for a while.
This has been my source of frustration for a while; what I consider to be a permanent lack of urgency. This sense of urgency should begin from on high, then trickle down to the overall club leadership. I haven't seen it.
Am I missing something/someone pertinent that should cause me to alter this thought?
the lack of urgency bothers me. There was really no reason to have Ben C. come in and have the Pirates have disastrous seasons in 2020, 2021 and 2022 and think it is okay. Then to think as long as 2023 isn't a disaster it is a big improvement. Maybe this season sets the stage for a big jump forward in 2024 (to division contender status and capable of winning at least one playoff series).
But there are just too many unknowns at this stage. To win the team has to have a lot of above average players and a couple great ones.
I expect a mediocre season in 2023 but think the team needs to make every effort to be good in 2024. That is a couple years behind the schedule I wanted but that seems to be the best that this team can do and it is a far from sure thing.
There's a difference between winning RS games and making The Dance. There's a difference between making The Dance.....and making The Sweet Sixteen.
There's a difference between making The Sweet Sixteen and The Final Four. There's a difference between making The Final Four and winning it.
Same's true in other sports, and no less true in MLB.
Being competitive during games is one thing. Being competitive for one of the 14 PS berths, especially in a lesser division is another. Considered by most to be capable of a run to the LCS is another.
I'm operating with the presumption that both Bednar and Reynolds will be dumped sometime this season. I'm not faulting management or players for this. I'm only stating what I think the outcomes are going to be.
I also think that Cutch and Santana will not be with us next season. They very well could be on the team. I'm only stating that I think they won't be.
So, who's left? Hayes, Cruz, Choi, Bae, Castro, and a pitching staff that doesn't strike me as being all that good.
So, if someone's willing to punt yet more season away and counting on the club to be a whole lot better, it seems to me that they're placing a heavy weight on LMGs and whatever veterans may be added along the way. In some cases, adding veterans could mean parting with some of the young guys in the system.
It might be just me, but I don't think that we're as "close" as some make it out to be. The pitching is what it is. It's not the pitching staff of a better club by any means. I'm not counting yet on the club being all that much better for a while.
This has been my source of frustration for a while; what I consider to be a permanent lack of urgency. This sense of urgency should begin from on high, then trickle down to the overall club leadership. I haven't seen it.
Am I missing something/someone pertinent that should cause me to alter this thought?
the lack of urgency bothers me. There was really no reason to have Ben C. come in and have the Pirates have disastrous seasons in 2020, 2021 and 2022 and think it is okay. Then to think as long as 2023 isn't a disaster it is a big improvement. Maybe this season sets the stage for a big jump forward in 2024 (to division contender status and capable of winning at least one playoff series).
But there are just too many unknowns at this stage. To win the team has to have a lot of above average players and a couple great ones.
I expect a mediocre season in 2023 but think the team needs to make every effort to be good in 2024. That is a couple years behind the schedule I wanted but that seems to be the best that this team can do and it is a far from sure thing.
-
GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
As spring training winds down ...
TY.
If someone was able to guarantee me "mediocre" right now, I will sign on the dotted line this very moment. I see an "adequate" battery at best- and, that was before Brubaker went down. I guess that depends on what I think "adequate" is. It's not adequate for a winning club.
I guess my point is- I didn't expect a good team this year. I'm not counting on any year until we get better pitching. To rely on LMGs next year is a big dice roll, IMO.
If someone was able to guarantee me "mediocre" right now, I will sign on the dotted line this very moment. I see an "adequate" battery at best- and, that was before Brubaker went down. I guess that depends on what I think "adequate" is. It's not adequate for a winning club.
I guess my point is- I didn't expect a good team this year. I'm not counting on any year until we get better pitching. To rely on LMGs next year is a big dice roll, IMO.