One thing is obvious ...
This team is going to be bad. Really bad.
I hate to feel so negative at the start of a new year when I'm usually so excited, but I'm finding it very difficult to get excited about this season.
Bottom line ... the starting pitching is going to be horrendous. We might (emphasis on the word "might") have a couple of starters who are average or maybe above average by MLB standards, but that's it.
We are going to see A TON of games once again in which our starter exits in the 4th innning with the Pirates trailing 5-1. That of course will eventually kill our bullpen, which won't be very good to begin with.
Even if our offense is marginally improved, it won't be able to cover up for this starting rotation.
I can't believe the Pirates are willing to begin a 162-game schedule with this rotation. Well actually I can totally believe it.
I'm feeling 61-101.
As spring training winds down ...
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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Bobster21
As spring training winds down ...
Similar to last season, I believe BC/Shelton are happy if staters can get thru 5 innings without the game getting out of hand. They expect to have the BP cover 3-4 innings each game. This appears to be their alternative to paying for adequate starting pitching. Hopefully, Keller can average 6 good innings but I don't think they expect that from anyone else. And I don't think the BP is very good, even if they weren't overworked.
Hopefully, Cruz, Hayes and Reynolds can have good seasons. I'd like to see Bae given a chance. Suwinski has power but needs to get significantly above .200 and may not be able to. Cutch and Santana don't have much left. Choi and Joe are marginal. Hedges cannot hit. Castro doesn't seem like an impact player. To have a decent season with this roster would require a lot of young players to produce like they've never done before or veterans like they haven't done in years.
Hopefully, Cruz, Hayes and Reynolds can have good seasons. I'd like to see Bae given a chance. Suwinski has power but needs to get significantly above .200 and may not be able to. Cutch and Santana don't have much left. Choi and Joe are marginal. Hedges cannot hit. Castro doesn't seem like an impact player. To have a decent season with this roster would require a lot of young players to produce like they've never done before or veterans like they haven't done in years.
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steve49
As spring training winds down ...
4163706D6E6B6C63407761616D020 wrote: One thing is obvious ...
This team is going to be bad. Really bad.
I hate to feel so negative at the start of a new year when I'm usually so excited, but I'm finding it very difficult to get excited about this season.
Bottom line ... the starting pitching is going to be horrendous. We might (emphasis on the word "might") have a couple of starters who are average or maybe above average by MLB standards, but that's it.
We are going to see A TON of games once again in which our starter exits in the 4th innning with the Pirates trailing 5-1. That of course will eventually kill our bullpen, which won't be very good to begin with.
Even if our offense is marginally improved, it won't be able to cover up for this starting rotation.
I can't believe the Pirates are willing to begin a 162-game schedule with this rotation. Well actually I can totally believe it.
I'm feeling 61-101.
That was my number for the annual record predicting thread. Please don't steal it.
This team is going to be bad. Really bad.
I hate to feel so negative at the start of a new year when I'm usually so excited, but I'm finding it very difficult to get excited about this season.
Bottom line ... the starting pitching is going to be horrendous. We might (emphasis on the word "might") have a couple of starters who are average or maybe above average by MLB standards, but that's it.
We are going to see A TON of games once again in which our starter exits in the 4th innning with the Pirates trailing 5-1. That of course will eventually kill our bullpen, which won't be very good to begin with.
Even if our offense is marginally improved, it won't be able to cover up for this starting rotation.
I can't believe the Pirates are willing to begin a 162-game schedule with this rotation. Well actually I can totally believe it.
I'm feeling 61-101.
That was my number for the annual record predicting thread. Please don't steal it.
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2drfischer@gmail.c
As spring training winds down ...
3C3B2A392A7B764F0 wrote: One thing is obvious ...
This team is going to be bad. Really bad.
I hate to feel so negative at the start of a new year when I'm usually so excited, but I'm finding it very difficult to get excited about this season.
Bottom line ... the starting pitching is going to be horrendous. We might (emphasis on the word "might") have a couple of starters who are average or maybe above average by MLB standards, but that's it.
We are going to see A TON of games once again in which our starter exits in the 4th innning with the Pirates trailing 5-1. That of course will eventually kill our bullpen, which won't be very good to begin with.
Even if our offense is marginally improved, it won't be able to cover up for this starting rotation.
I can't believe the Pirates are willing to begin a 162-game schedule with this rotation. Well actually I can totally believe it.
I'm feeling 61-101.
That was my number for the annual record predicting thread. Please don't steal it.
I’m more optimistic about the season. I think the team’s roster is better than a year ago, and that the young players who saw action last season will be improved from last September. And more will arrive as the year progresses.
2023 was never going to be the season where the team could contend for a playoff spot. Everything done this year will be in preparation to compete for the postseason in 2024 and beyond. That’s the reality. It always has been because tearing an organization to the ground and starting over again simply takes time. Even the wealthiest franchises with owners who want to win can’t do that overnight.
This team is going to be bad. Really bad.
I hate to feel so negative at the start of a new year when I'm usually so excited, but I'm finding it very difficult to get excited about this season.
Bottom line ... the starting pitching is going to be horrendous. We might (emphasis on the word "might") have a couple of starters who are average or maybe above average by MLB standards, but that's it.
We are going to see A TON of games once again in which our starter exits in the 4th innning with the Pirates trailing 5-1. That of course will eventually kill our bullpen, which won't be very good to begin with.
Even if our offense is marginally improved, it won't be able to cover up for this starting rotation.
I can't believe the Pirates are willing to begin a 162-game schedule with this rotation. Well actually I can totally believe it.
I'm feeling 61-101.
That was my number for the annual record predicting thread. Please don't steal it.
I’m more optimistic about the season. I think the team’s roster is better than a year ago, and that the young players who saw action last season will be improved from last September. And more will arrive as the year progresses.
2023 was never going to be the season where the team could contend for a playoff spot. Everything done this year will be in preparation to compete for the postseason in 2024 and beyond. That’s the reality. It always has been because tearing an organization to the ground and starting over again simply takes time. Even the wealthiest franchises with owners who want to win can’t do that overnight.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
As spring training winds down ...
547665787B7E79765562747478170 wrote: One thing is obvious ...
This team is going to be bad. Really bad.
I hate to feel so negative at the start of a new year when I'm usually so excited, but I'm finding it very difficult to get excited about this season.
Bottom line ... the starting pitching is going to be horrendous. We might (emphasis on the word "might") have a couple of starters who are average or maybe above average by MLB standards, but that's it.
We are going to see A TON of games once again in which our starter exits in the 4th innning with the Pirates trailing 5-1. That of course will eventually kill our bullpen, which won't be very good to begin with.
Even if our offense is marginally improved, it won't be able to cover up for this starting rotation.
I can't believe the Pirates are willing to begin a 162-game schedule with this rotation. Well actually I can totally believe it.
I'm feeling 61-101.
Before we can be competitive (my definition's different from some) we have to get to bad. In my opinion, we need this year to at least get to bad.
Someone will have a difficult time convincing me that this year's battery is better than what we had four years ago. The entire roster might be equal. Maybe.
I agree that the pitching will do us in. I agree that the vets need re-energized.
Then, consider that two good players, Bednar and Reynolds, aren't certain to be on the roster the entire season, and a more balanced schedule.
I expect the division to be tighter. I expect a tighter RD. I dont think that we'll lose games by 20 runs, but we'll still lose. So, in those regards, better play.
It's taken this long to get to here.
This team is going to be bad. Really bad.
I hate to feel so negative at the start of a new year when I'm usually so excited, but I'm finding it very difficult to get excited about this season.
Bottom line ... the starting pitching is going to be horrendous. We might (emphasis on the word "might") have a couple of starters who are average or maybe above average by MLB standards, but that's it.
We are going to see A TON of games once again in which our starter exits in the 4th innning with the Pirates trailing 5-1. That of course will eventually kill our bullpen, which won't be very good to begin with.
Even if our offense is marginally improved, it won't be able to cover up for this starting rotation.
I can't believe the Pirates are willing to begin a 162-game schedule with this rotation. Well actually I can totally believe it.
I'm feeling 61-101.
Before we can be competitive (my definition's different from some) we have to get to bad. In my opinion, we need this year to at least get to bad.
Someone will have a difficult time convincing me that this year's battery is better than what we had four years ago. The entire roster might be equal. Maybe.
I agree that the pitching will do us in. I agree that the vets need re-energized.
Then, consider that two good players, Bednar and Reynolds, aren't certain to be on the roster the entire season, and a more balanced schedule.
I expect the division to be tighter. I expect a tighter RD. I dont think that we'll lose games by 20 runs, but we'll still lose. So, in those regards, better play.
It's taken this long to get to here.
As spring training winds down ...
I've lost the optimism I had before ST. Very few guys showed a sense of urgency about making the team, and the two who did were sent down (Swaggerty and Endy). Not one starter has shown any consistency. The bats are full of holes, but not displaying power. Oh well, Cutch is here to root for and Hayes and Cruz have been solid. I'm sure Reynolds will come around eventually. If CS-N isn't one of the starting OF what's the point of ST?
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
As spring training winds down ...
0F292E3B323E293F375C0 wrote: I've lost the optimism I had before ST. Very few guys showed a sense of urgency about making the team, and the two who did were sent down (Swaggerty and Endy). Not one starter has shown any consistency. The bats are full of holes, but not displaying power. Oh well, Cutch is here to root for and Hayes and Cruz have been solid. I'm sure Reynolds will come around eventually. If CS-N isn't one of the starting OF what's the point of ST?
I saw your prediction and obviously knew something was up. It's highly unlike you. You're usually among the most rosy colored glasses guys. That's a compliment.
As for me, I always look forward to the seasons. I don't always look forward to our seasons. This is the second-least hopeful season for me that I can remember. That very well could turn out to be a good thing.
I was absolutely upset going into the 2013 season. Maybe they'll prove me wrong again.
I saw your prediction and obviously knew something was up. It's highly unlike you. You're usually among the most rosy colored glasses guys. That's a compliment.
As for me, I always look forward to the seasons. I don't always look forward to our seasons. This is the second-least hopeful season for me that I can remember. That very well could turn out to be a good thing.
I was absolutely upset going into the 2013 season. Maybe they'll prove me wrong again.
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WildwoodDave2
As spring training winds down ...
I see Brubaker has arm problems and could be out on the IL
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Bobster21
As spring training winds down ...
If there's ever going to be a push toward respectability, we need to see signs of it this year. 2021 was a throw-away season (60 wins) while they focused on the minors. In 2022, they began to focus more on how some of the prospects could do at the MLB level. Chavis, Cruz, Mitchell, Suwinski, Castillo, Castro, Marcano, Madris, Contreras and De Los Santos all got good looks. Bae, Park, Oviedo, Yajure, Ortiz all got a brief look. The result was just 61 wins, but it represented a step toward finding the team's future base. A few washed out and are gone. But most of them have a chance to take a step forward in 2023. And that's what we need to see.
Unfortunately, taking PT away from some of them to bring in over-the-hill Cutch and Santana as well as Choi and Joe looks like an impediment to letting the young guys progress. Swaggerty had the best ST and goes to AAA.
Suwinski likely starts and Bae will probably sit on the bench. How much will Smith-Njigba play if he even goes north? I'm not at all sold on Suwinski. 19 HRs sounds nice but if he makes too many outs in between, it minimizes his production. His BA in high-A was .208. His BA at AA was a nice .273. But it fell to .214 at AAA and .203 with the Pirates last year. In ST this year, he's at .191. Because he didn't get a lot of hits overall last year, his 19 HRs accounted for only 38 RBIs. That was the fewest RBIs in MLB in 2022 for anyone with 16 or more HRs.
The pitching looks rough. Keller needs to build on last year and be dominant. Contreras needs to be a sold starter. Brubaker goes to the IL but his career 9-28, 4.99 ERA does not suggest he was ready for a breakthrough season. Velazquez' history does not inspire confidence. Is there another good year left in Rich Hill's 43-year old arm? Can the BP keep games close pitching 3-4 innings every game? Will Bednar stay healthy?
Maybe Cruz, Hayes and Reynolds (if he stays) will all have good seasons and a few others will contribute. Maybe some who begin the year in AA or AAA will wind up as solid contributors with the Pirates this year. Maybe the pitching will surprise in a good way. But if those things don't happen and we see another 60-65 win season with what should be a step forward in the rebuild, it will cast serious doubt on the organization's attempt to become relevant.
Unfortunately, taking PT away from some of them to bring in over-the-hill Cutch and Santana as well as Choi and Joe looks like an impediment to letting the young guys progress. Swaggerty had the best ST and goes to AAA.
Suwinski likely starts and Bae will probably sit on the bench. How much will Smith-Njigba play if he even goes north? I'm not at all sold on Suwinski. 19 HRs sounds nice but if he makes too many outs in between, it minimizes his production. His BA in high-A was .208. His BA at AA was a nice .273. But it fell to .214 at AAA and .203 with the Pirates last year. In ST this year, he's at .191. Because he didn't get a lot of hits overall last year, his 19 HRs accounted for only 38 RBIs. That was the fewest RBIs in MLB in 2022 for anyone with 16 or more HRs.
The pitching looks rough. Keller needs to build on last year and be dominant. Contreras needs to be a sold starter. Brubaker goes to the IL but his career 9-28, 4.99 ERA does not suggest he was ready for a breakthrough season. Velazquez' history does not inspire confidence. Is there another good year left in Rich Hill's 43-year old arm? Can the BP keep games close pitching 3-4 innings every game? Will Bednar stay healthy?
Maybe Cruz, Hayes and Reynolds (if he stays) will all have good seasons and a few others will contribute. Maybe some who begin the year in AA or AAA will wind up as solid contributors with the Pirates this year. Maybe the pitching will surprise in a good way. But if those things don't happen and we see another 60-65 win season with what should be a step forward in the rebuild, it will cast serious doubt on the organization's attempt to become relevant.