Hard to believe, but I now believe that the Pirate's starting rotation, as poor as it is, may have more talent than the bullpen.
Brault, Kuhl, Brubaker, Crowe, and Wilson, features 5 pitchers who may be able to make it through 4 - 6 innings on any given night while surrendering less than 3 runs. Not great, but hey, it's what we got.
Conversely, after Bednar, Stratton and Shreve, the remaining pitchers in the pen are likely to give up 2 or more runs in an inning; and it is a noteworthy success when they can make it through an inning without letting a game get out of reach.
I knew this season had a good chance of getting even uglier, but it now appears that it may have underestimated how bad things may get. Hope that Brault can mimic being a decent starter in the upcoming weeks, and that Crowe continues to impress.
Pirate Pitching
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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Bobster21
Pirate Pitching
I think Shelton's mishandling of the pitching staff has significantly contributed to the problem. Effective pitchers are inexplicably pulled and replaced with relievers who consistently struggle. Last night Wilson was pulled after 5 innings, 74 pitches, 1 run, 2 infield hits and 2 walks.
Shelton explained that he didn't let Wilson go further because he had not started an MLB game since May. However, after being optioned in late May, Wilson continued to start in AAA thru May and June and as recently as July 14 before going back to the Braves for a pair of multi-inning relief appearances. . So after being pulled for unclear reasons, Kyle Keller and Mears, neither of whom can make a strong case for being in the majors, quickly give up 5 runs over the next 2 innings.
It seems to me that when you have a starter pitching effectively thru 5 innings and just 74 pitches the last thing you would want to do is pull him and replace him with some of your worst relievers. But this is a common practice for Shelton who generally turns the last 4 innings over to his very weak BP regardless of how the starter is doing. His rotation is weak enough that too often there is a legit reason for pulling the starter early, which strains the weak BP. But pulling starters early regardless when the relievers are so bad is a bizarre strategy. Other than Brubaker, who went 6 innings 8 times, Kuhl did it only 4 times, Crowe twice, Cahill once and De Jong and Keller never.
Shelton explained that he didn't let Wilson go further because he had not started an MLB game since May. However, after being optioned in late May, Wilson continued to start in AAA thru May and June and as recently as July 14 before going back to the Braves for a pair of multi-inning relief appearances. . So after being pulled for unclear reasons, Kyle Keller and Mears, neither of whom can make a strong case for being in the majors, quickly give up 5 runs over the next 2 innings.
It seems to me that when you have a starter pitching effectively thru 5 innings and just 74 pitches the last thing you would want to do is pull him and replace him with some of your worst relievers. But this is a common practice for Shelton who generally turns the last 4 innings over to his very weak BP regardless of how the starter is doing. His rotation is weak enough that too often there is a legit reason for pulling the starter early, which strains the weak BP. But pulling starters early regardless when the relievers are so bad is a bizarre strategy. Other than Brubaker, who went 6 innings 8 times, Kuhl did it only 4 times, Crowe twice, Cahill once and De Jong and Keller never.
Pirate Pitching
In all honesty, this team still sucks if Shelton handled the pitching a bit better. It is what it is.
Absent Yajure, is there someone capable of coming in and grabbing a spot in the rotation relative to our prospects? We have a bunch of 5s in out rotation and that is a problem. Bullpen arms are a dime a dozen. We will sign someone in the offseason that will be the next Shreve or Stratton. Not concerned about that.
Next year will be worse.
Absent Yajure, is there someone capable of coming in and grabbing a spot in the rotation relative to our prospects? We have a bunch of 5s in out rotation and that is a problem. Bullpen arms are a dime a dozen. We will sign someone in the offseason that will be the next Shreve or Stratton. Not concerned about that.
Next year will be worse.
Pirate Pitching
062B26373021367675440 wrote: I think Shelton's mishandling of the pitching staff has significantly contributed to the problem. Effective pitchers are inexplicably pulled and replaced with relievers who consistently struggle. Last night Wilson was pulled after 5 innings, 74 pitches, 1 run, 2 infield hits and 2 walks.
Shelton explained that he didn't let Wilson go further because he had not started an MLB game since May. However, after being optioned in late May, Wilson continued to start in AAA thru May and June and as recently as July 14 before going back to the Braves for a pair of multi-inning relief appearances. . So after being pulled for unclear reasons, Kyle Keller and Mears, neither of whom can make a strong case for being in the majors, quickly give up 5 runs over the next 2 innings.
It seems to me that when you have a starter pitching effectively thru 5 innings and just 74 pitches the last thing you would want to do is pull him and replace him with some of your worst relievers. But this is a common practice for Shelton who generally turns the last 4 innings over to his very weak BP regardless of how the starter is doing. His rotation is weak enough that too often there is a legit reason for pulling the starter early, which strains the weak BP. But pulling starters early regardless when the relievers are so bad is a bizarre strategy. Other than Brubaker, who went 6 innings 8 times, Kuhl did it only 4 times, Crowe twice, Cahill once and De Jong and Keller never.
exactly right, if a pitcher is effective why not let him at least start the next inning and see what happens. With the current relievers it doesn't matter if they come in with men on base or not.
Shelton explained that he didn't let Wilson go further because he had not started an MLB game since May. However, after being optioned in late May, Wilson continued to start in AAA thru May and June and as recently as July 14 before going back to the Braves for a pair of multi-inning relief appearances. . So after being pulled for unclear reasons, Kyle Keller and Mears, neither of whom can make a strong case for being in the majors, quickly give up 5 runs over the next 2 innings.
It seems to me that when you have a starter pitching effectively thru 5 innings and just 74 pitches the last thing you would want to do is pull him and replace him with some of your worst relievers. But this is a common practice for Shelton who generally turns the last 4 innings over to his very weak BP regardless of how the starter is doing. His rotation is weak enough that too often there is a legit reason for pulling the starter early, which strains the weak BP. But pulling starters early regardless when the relievers are so bad is a bizarre strategy. Other than Brubaker, who went 6 innings 8 times, Kuhl did it only 4 times, Crowe twice, Cahill once and De Jong and Keller never.
exactly right, if a pitcher is effective why not let him at least start the next inning and see what happens. With the current relievers it doesn't matter if they come in with men on base or not.
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johnfluharty
Pirate Pitching
I am hoping he does this because we are not in a win-now mode and he wants to give these guys some innings to see if they can be made into anything useful.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Pirate Pitching
2421262028223B262F3C3A374E0 wrote: I am hoping he does this because we are not in a win-now mode and he wants to give these guys some innings to see if they can be made into anything useful.
I would be surprised if this is his reason. I think he's capping thecstarter's time. Whether this is an edict that comes from on high, that would be my question.
I would be surprised if this is his reason. I think he's capping thecstarter's time. Whether this is an edict that comes from on high, that would be my question.
Pirate Pitching
063324242F1624242F2824410 wrote: I am hoping he does this because we are not in a win-now mode and he wants to give these guys some innings to see if they can be made into anything useful.
I would be surprised if this is his reason. I think he's capping thecstarter's time. Whether this is an edict that comes from on high, that would be my question.
You're not questioning the cutting edge "rest department" are you?
I would be surprised if this is his reason. I think he's capping thecstarter's time. Whether this is an edict that comes from on high, that would be my question.
You're not questioning the cutting edge "rest department" are you?
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Pirate Pitching
Yeah. Cuts the edge between 27th & 28th.
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Bobster21
Pirate Pitching
0035222229102222292E22470 wrote: I am hoping he does this because we are not in a win-now mode and he wants to give these guys some innings to see if they can be made into anything useful.
I would be surprised if this is his reason. I think he's capping the starter's time. Whether this is an edict that comes from on high, that would be my question.
That may be. But it also means we will see the same thing next year when they say they have to limit the innings in 2022 because they didn't pitch a lot in 2021 because they didn't pitch much in 2020. Seems to me they would start slow this year and work up to more innings as the season progresses. Instead, we seem to have an ironclad policy that pitchers may not pitch much. So instead of building the arms up after the short 2020 season, we are seeing a continuing practice of limited innings that will have a negative impact next year.
I would be surprised if this is his reason. I think he's capping the starter's time. Whether this is an edict that comes from on high, that would be my question.
That may be. But it also means we will see the same thing next year when they say they have to limit the innings in 2022 because they didn't pitch a lot in 2021 because they didn't pitch much in 2020. Seems to me they would start slow this year and work up to more innings as the season progresses. Instead, we seem to have an ironclad policy that pitchers may not pitch much. So instead of building the arms up after the short 2020 season, we are seeing a continuing practice of limited innings that will have a negative impact next year.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Pirate Pitching
Next year?
I'll just leave it at that. I think you know what I mean by that question.
I'll just leave it at that. I think you know what I mean by that question.