To cut to the chase, I think we actually got worse during the off season, if that's possible.
Sure, I liked the acquisition of Jarlin Garcia, a decent MLB lefty reliever. Since we DFA'ed Manny Banuelos, we needed at least one and Garcia looks like an upgrade. The Rule 5 pickup of lefty reliever Jose Hernandez is a low-risk gain.
But ...
Vince Velasquez? What we needed was a lefty starter. Tyler Anderson signed for 13M per year. Jose Quintana signed for 13M per year. We couldn't try to get one of those guys back? PNC cries out for lefty pitching, yet our lack of it remains a big problem. Velasquez just gets in the way of our young right handers.
This year the shift will be banned, at least in its old form. Defensively gifted middle infielders should be a priority. So we gave away Kevin Newman for an unproven (to be kind) righty reliever. Salary dump, pure and simple. We will be crying for Newman if Rudolfo Castro is our main 2nd baseman this season.
We DFA'ed some fungible talent because we had so much of it. No problem. But what about the Rule 5 fiasco? We lost young starter Joelvis Del Rosario and a couple of decent relief prospects, and Jared Oliva, one of our best righty hitting outfielders. Given his speed and defensive talent, it's hard to see where the guys we picked up - Ryan Vilade and Conner Joe - present much of an improvement over Oliva. In all, we lost 12 guys from our system, and that's probably twice as many as we should have. BC simply chose not to protect an extra handful of youngsters, so we could pick up "fresh faces". I'm not impressed.
Since I mentioned Conner Joe, I don't have much of a gripe with trading for him because we gave up exactly the type of so-so prospect - Nick Garcia - that we're likely to lose in next year's Rule 5 anyway. Still, is he the best we can do? I would rather see at bats go to Andujar.
The trade for Ji-Man Choi is similar to Joe's in that we gave up just a little but I'm not sure if we got much back. Maybe the shift change will benefit Choi. A better acquisition was the FA signing of Carlos Santana. With Santana it's supposed to be about the intangibles. I just hope he still has some gas in the tank. (I still shudder when I think about Yoshi.) But Santana should at least be better than Chavis.
Most recently we gave Austin Hedges 5M to play great defense at catcher but probably fail to reach the Mendoza line. We better PH for him a lot! I liked bringing back Heineman and hope we can minimize our poor offensive output at catcher through astute management. (I almost gagged when I wrote that last one.) Hey, we're just waiting for Endy anyway.
To review: we probably improved a little in the bullpen, at 1B, and catcher. Defensively we are worse in the middle infield. We did not get a lefty starter. Our new righty hitting outfielders are underwhelming. Worst of all, our competitors made real improvements while we sat around waiting for prospects to improve. Such is the life of the Pirate fan. Will I see another winner in my lifetime? I'm not optimistic.
Thoughts On the Pirates Off Season
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
-
UtahPirate
- Posts: 582
- Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:36 pm
Thoughts On the Pirates Off Season
4D676C5C6B7D7D711E0 wrote: To cut to the chase, I think we actually got worse during the off season, if that's possible.
Sure, I liked the acquisition of Jarlin Garcia, a decent MLB lefty reliever. Since we DFA'ed Manny Banuelos, we needed at least one and Garcia looks like an upgrade. The Rule 5 pickup of lefty reliever Jose Hernandez is a low-risk gain.
But ...
Vince Velasquez? What we needed was a lefty starter. Tyler Anderson signed for 13M per year. Jose Quintana signed for 13M per year. We couldn't try to get one of those guys back? PNC cries out for lefty pitching, yet our lack of it remains a big problem. Velasquez just gets in the way of our young right handers.
This year the shift will be banned, at least in its old form. Defensively gifted middle infielders should be a priority. So we gave away Kevin Newman for an unproven (to be kind) righty reliever. Salary dump, pure and simple. We will be crying for Newman if Rudolfo Castro is our main 2nd baseman this season.
We DFA'ed some fungible talent because we had so much of it. No problem. But what about the Rule 5 fiasco? We lost young starter Joelvis Del Rosario and a couple of decent relief prospects, and Jared Oliva, one of our best righty hitting outfielders. Given his speed and defensive talent, it's hard to see where the guys we picked up - Ryan Vilade and Conner Joe - present much of an improvement over Oliva. In all, we lost 12 guys from our system, and that's probably twice as many as we should have. BC simply chose not to protect an extra handful of youngsters, so we could pick up "fresh faces". I'm not impressed.
Since I mentioned Conner Joe, I don't have much of a gripe with trading for him because we gave up exactly the type of so-so prospect - Nick Garcia - that we're likely to lose in next year's Rule 5 anyway. Still, is he the best we can do? I would rather see at bats go to Andujar.
The trade for Ji-Man Choi is similar to Joe's in that we gave up just a little but I'm not sure if we got much back. Maybe the shift change will benefit Choi. A better acquisition was the FA signing of Carlos Santana. With Santana it's supposed to be about the intangibles. I just hope he still has some gas in the tank. (I still shudder when I think about Yoshi.) But Santana should at least be better than Chavis.
Most recently we gave Austin Hedges 5M to play great defense at catcher but probably fail to reach the Mendoza line. We better PH for him a lot! I liked bringing back Heineman and hope we can minimize our poor offensive output at catcher through astute management. (I almost gagged when I wrote that last one.) Hey, we're just waiting for Endy anyway.
To review: we probably improved a little in the bullpen, at 1B, and catcher. Defensively we are worse in the middle infield. We did not get a lefty starter. Our new righty hitting outfielders are underwhelming. Worst of all, our competitors made real improvements while we sat around waiting for prospects to improve. Such is the life of the Pirate fan. Will I see another winner in my lifetime? I'm not optimistic.
A lot to unpack here, but Velasquez and, for me, Hedges are the head scratchers. I know we have penciled Velasquez in as a starter and he seems a lot like a lefthanded Thompson (with more experience). You can't even be sure he will remain a starter for the whole season. We need a whole lot more - especially from a lefty. And I think it is time to bring in someone to solidify the staff (Anderson or Quintana would have been ideal) but BC has clearly shown he is not ready to make any major - $$$ commitments to multiple year contracts.
Hedges I get to some extent until I see the 5 million. Seriously!? That's what you get today for that much money!? There has to be other options. We are so darn cheap and a .160-something hitter gets 5 million? He better bring extreme defensive/teaching abilities if he is going to be the tutor for Endy.
I think the message so far is that BC is only going to bring in stop-gap one year players for most of the major holes. And given who is has brought in he has decided to gamble on several instead of finding more sure-thing options. That probably has a lot to do with trying to just hand out one-year deals.
The relievers are a different story as we have added depth with several relievers who are (the Pirate word of the offseason) controllable and have option years left.
As for Joe, I think it's a sign that we may not be sold on Andujar. Again, Joe still has options was listed as a factor.
I think the overall lineup is more solid, but it is obvious we are continuing to try out prospects - and a couple better really rise up for us to make any headway to the organizations declared goal of 83 wins.
Sure, I liked the acquisition of Jarlin Garcia, a decent MLB lefty reliever. Since we DFA'ed Manny Banuelos, we needed at least one and Garcia looks like an upgrade. The Rule 5 pickup of lefty reliever Jose Hernandez is a low-risk gain.
But ...
Vince Velasquez? What we needed was a lefty starter. Tyler Anderson signed for 13M per year. Jose Quintana signed for 13M per year. We couldn't try to get one of those guys back? PNC cries out for lefty pitching, yet our lack of it remains a big problem. Velasquez just gets in the way of our young right handers.
This year the shift will be banned, at least in its old form. Defensively gifted middle infielders should be a priority. So we gave away Kevin Newman for an unproven (to be kind) righty reliever. Salary dump, pure and simple. We will be crying for Newman if Rudolfo Castro is our main 2nd baseman this season.
We DFA'ed some fungible talent because we had so much of it. No problem. But what about the Rule 5 fiasco? We lost young starter Joelvis Del Rosario and a couple of decent relief prospects, and Jared Oliva, one of our best righty hitting outfielders. Given his speed and defensive talent, it's hard to see where the guys we picked up - Ryan Vilade and Conner Joe - present much of an improvement over Oliva. In all, we lost 12 guys from our system, and that's probably twice as many as we should have. BC simply chose not to protect an extra handful of youngsters, so we could pick up "fresh faces". I'm not impressed.
Since I mentioned Conner Joe, I don't have much of a gripe with trading for him because we gave up exactly the type of so-so prospect - Nick Garcia - that we're likely to lose in next year's Rule 5 anyway. Still, is he the best we can do? I would rather see at bats go to Andujar.
The trade for Ji-Man Choi is similar to Joe's in that we gave up just a little but I'm not sure if we got much back. Maybe the shift change will benefit Choi. A better acquisition was the FA signing of Carlos Santana. With Santana it's supposed to be about the intangibles. I just hope he still has some gas in the tank. (I still shudder when I think about Yoshi.) But Santana should at least be better than Chavis.
Most recently we gave Austin Hedges 5M to play great defense at catcher but probably fail to reach the Mendoza line. We better PH for him a lot! I liked bringing back Heineman and hope we can minimize our poor offensive output at catcher through astute management. (I almost gagged when I wrote that last one.) Hey, we're just waiting for Endy anyway.
To review: we probably improved a little in the bullpen, at 1B, and catcher. Defensively we are worse in the middle infield. We did not get a lefty starter. Our new righty hitting outfielders are underwhelming. Worst of all, our competitors made real improvements while we sat around waiting for prospects to improve. Such is the life of the Pirate fan. Will I see another winner in my lifetime? I'm not optimistic.
A lot to unpack here, but Velasquez and, for me, Hedges are the head scratchers. I know we have penciled Velasquez in as a starter and he seems a lot like a lefthanded Thompson (with more experience). You can't even be sure he will remain a starter for the whole season. We need a whole lot more - especially from a lefty. And I think it is time to bring in someone to solidify the staff (Anderson or Quintana would have been ideal) but BC has clearly shown he is not ready to make any major - $$$ commitments to multiple year contracts.
Hedges I get to some extent until I see the 5 million. Seriously!? That's what you get today for that much money!? There has to be other options. We are so darn cheap and a .160-something hitter gets 5 million? He better bring extreme defensive/teaching abilities if he is going to be the tutor for Endy.
I think the message so far is that BC is only going to bring in stop-gap one year players for most of the major holes. And given who is has brought in he has decided to gamble on several instead of finding more sure-thing options. That probably has a lot to do with trying to just hand out one-year deals.
The relievers are a different story as we have added depth with several relievers who are (the Pirate word of the offseason) controllable and have option years left.
As for Joe, I think it's a sign that we may not be sold on Andujar. Again, Joe still has options was listed as a factor.
I think the overall lineup is more solid, but it is obvious we are continuing to try out prospects - and a couple better really rise up for us to make any headway to the organizations declared goal of 83 wins.
-
GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Thoughts On the Pirates Off Season
Santana wasn't brought in for his "intangibles." He was brought in mainly for a "reclamation." Intangibles are a "plus."
As for the rest, it proves that, a few years in, a change in general managers usn't that much of a change.
As for the rest, it proves that, a few years in, a change in general managers usn't that much of a change.
-
CarolinaBucco
Thoughts On the Pirates Off Season
Great post, SyrBucco ... my sentiments exactly.
I will never, ever understand why this franchise doesn't make it a priority to have at least 2 left starters in the rotation every year to minimize LH power bats in PNC. Makes ZERO sense.
I'll say it again. This roster is below average in terms of position players and bench, but it doesn't matter because the franchise has NO SHOT at being competitive until it makes a commitment to build an actual major league starting rotation ... which it apparently has no interest in doing. This rotation is a train wreck yet the Pirates seem perfectly content with it. Perfectly content to try to get through 162 games with a collection of No. 5 starters and misfits.
I will never, ever understand why this franchise doesn't make it a priority to have at least 2 left starters in the rotation every year to minimize LH power bats in PNC. Makes ZERO sense.
I'll say it again. This roster is below average in terms of position players and bench, but it doesn't matter because the franchise has NO SHOT at being competitive until it makes a commitment to build an actual major league starting rotation ... which it apparently has no interest in doing. This rotation is a train wreck yet the Pirates seem perfectly content with it. Perfectly content to try to get through 162 games with a collection of No. 5 starters and misfits.
-
2drfischer@gmail.c
Thoughts On the Pirates Off Season
1735263B383D3A35162137373B540 wrote: Great post, SyrBucco ... my sentiments exactly.
[highlight]I will never, ever understand why this franchise doesn't make it a priority to have at least 2 left starters in the rotation every year to minimize LH power bats in PNC.[/highlight] Makes ZERO sense.
I'll say it again. This roster is below average in terms of position players and bench, but it doesn't matter because the franchise has NO SHOT at being competitive until it makes a commitment to build an actual major league starting rotation ... which it apparently has no interest in doing. This rotation is a train wreck yet the Pirates seem perfectly content with it. Perfectly content to try to get through 162 games with a collection of No. 5 starters and misfits.
I've felt the same thing since the opening of the park. But I'd go one step further and make sure that there's a tough lefty in the bullpen for the later innings to negate any lefthanded power bats in the opposing line-up and on the bench. Having a lefthanded closer, to me, would be ideal.
We all know lefties are hard to come by but drafting and acquiring them should be a high priority.
[highlight]I will never, ever understand why this franchise doesn't make it a priority to have at least 2 left starters in the rotation every year to minimize LH power bats in PNC.[/highlight] Makes ZERO sense.
I'll say it again. This roster is below average in terms of position players and bench, but it doesn't matter because the franchise has NO SHOT at being competitive until it makes a commitment to build an actual major league starting rotation ... which it apparently has no interest in doing. This rotation is a train wreck yet the Pirates seem perfectly content with it. Perfectly content to try to get through 162 games with a collection of No. 5 starters and misfits.
I've felt the same thing since the opening of the park. But I'd go one step further and make sure that there's a tough lefty in the bullpen for the later innings to negate any lefthanded power bats in the opposing line-up and on the bench. Having a lefthanded closer, to me, would be ideal.
We all know lefties are hard to come by but drafting and acquiring them should be a high priority.
-
WildwoodDave2
Thoughts On the Pirates Off Season
725853635442424E210 wrote: To cut to the chase, I think we actually got worse during the off season, if that's possible.
Sure, I liked the acquisition of Jarlin Garcia, a decent MLB lefty reliever. Since we DFA'ed Manny Banuelos, we needed at least one and Garcia looks like an upgrade. The Rule 5 pickup of lefty reliever Jose Hernandez is a low-risk gain.
But ...
Vince Velasquez? What we needed was a lefty starter. Tyler Anderson signed for 13M per year. Jose Quintana signed for 13M per year. We couldn't try to get one of those guys back? PNC cries out for lefty pitching, yet our lack of it remains a big problem. Velasquez just gets in the way of our young right handers.
This year the shift will be banned, at least in its old form. Defensively gifted middle infielders should be a priority. So we gave away Kevin Newman for an unproven (to be kind) righty reliever. Salary dump, pure and simple. We will be crying for Newman if Rudolfo Castro is our main 2nd baseman this season.
We DFA'ed some fungible talent because we had so much of it. No problem. But what about the Rule 5 fiasco? We lost young starter Joelvis Del Rosario and a couple of decent relief prospects, and Jared Oliva, one of our best righty hitting outfielders. Given his speed and defensive talent, it's hard to see where the guys we picked up - Ryan Vilade and Conner Joe - present much of an improvement over Oliva. In all, we lost 12 guys from our system, and that's probably twice as many as we should have. BC simply chose not to protect an extra handful of youngsters, so we could pick up "fresh faces". I'm not impressed.
Since I mentioned Conner Joe, I don't have much of a gripe with trading for him because we gave up exactly the type of so-so prospect - Nick Garcia - that we're likely to lose in next year's Rule 5 anyway. Still, is he the best we can do? I would rather see at bats go to Andujar.
The trade for Ji-Man Choi is similar to Joe's in that we gave up just a little but I'm not sure if we got much back. Maybe the shift change will benefit Choi. A better acquisition was the FA signing of Carlos Santana. With Santana it's supposed to be about the intangibles. I just hope he still has some gas in the tank. (I still shudder when I think about Yoshi.) But Santana should at least be better than Chavis.
Most recently we gave Austin Hedges 5M to play great defense at catcher but probably fail to reach the Mendoza line. We better PH for him a lot! I liked bringing back Heineman and hope we can minimize our poor offensive output at catcher through astute management. (I almost gagged when I wrote that last one.) Hey, we're just waiting for Endy anyway.
To review: we probably improved a little in the bullpen, at 1B, and catcher. Defensively we are worse in the middle infield. We did not get a lefty starter. Our new righty hitting outfielders are underwhelming. Worst of all, our competitors made real improvements while we sat around waiting for prospects to improve. Such is the life of the Pirate fan. Will I see another winner in my lifetime? I'm not optimistic.
If you are my age probably not :'(
Sure, I liked the acquisition of Jarlin Garcia, a decent MLB lefty reliever. Since we DFA'ed Manny Banuelos, we needed at least one and Garcia looks like an upgrade. The Rule 5 pickup of lefty reliever Jose Hernandez is a low-risk gain.
But ...
Vince Velasquez? What we needed was a lefty starter. Tyler Anderson signed for 13M per year. Jose Quintana signed for 13M per year. We couldn't try to get one of those guys back? PNC cries out for lefty pitching, yet our lack of it remains a big problem. Velasquez just gets in the way of our young right handers.
This year the shift will be banned, at least in its old form. Defensively gifted middle infielders should be a priority. So we gave away Kevin Newman for an unproven (to be kind) righty reliever. Salary dump, pure and simple. We will be crying for Newman if Rudolfo Castro is our main 2nd baseman this season.
We DFA'ed some fungible talent because we had so much of it. No problem. But what about the Rule 5 fiasco? We lost young starter Joelvis Del Rosario and a couple of decent relief prospects, and Jared Oliva, one of our best righty hitting outfielders. Given his speed and defensive talent, it's hard to see where the guys we picked up - Ryan Vilade and Conner Joe - present much of an improvement over Oliva. In all, we lost 12 guys from our system, and that's probably twice as many as we should have. BC simply chose not to protect an extra handful of youngsters, so we could pick up "fresh faces". I'm not impressed.
Since I mentioned Conner Joe, I don't have much of a gripe with trading for him because we gave up exactly the type of so-so prospect - Nick Garcia - that we're likely to lose in next year's Rule 5 anyway. Still, is he the best we can do? I would rather see at bats go to Andujar.
The trade for Ji-Man Choi is similar to Joe's in that we gave up just a little but I'm not sure if we got much back. Maybe the shift change will benefit Choi. A better acquisition was the FA signing of Carlos Santana. With Santana it's supposed to be about the intangibles. I just hope he still has some gas in the tank. (I still shudder when I think about Yoshi.) But Santana should at least be better than Chavis.
Most recently we gave Austin Hedges 5M to play great defense at catcher but probably fail to reach the Mendoza line. We better PH for him a lot! I liked bringing back Heineman and hope we can minimize our poor offensive output at catcher through astute management. (I almost gagged when I wrote that last one.) Hey, we're just waiting for Endy anyway.
To review: we probably improved a little in the bullpen, at 1B, and catcher. Defensively we are worse in the middle infield. We did not get a lefty starter. Our new righty hitting outfielders are underwhelming. Worst of all, our competitors made real improvements while we sat around waiting for prospects to improve. Such is the life of the Pirate fan. Will I see another winner in my lifetime? I'm not optimistic.
If you are my age probably not :'(
-
GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Thoughts On the Pirates Off Season
In fairness, opinions are limitless.
Bleacher Report writes that, so far, the Pirates' off-season moves (additions/subtractions) are on par with the teams in the division.
The large market Brewers were rated A-; Pirates B+. Others in that range. Granted, the Pirates and Reds start behind. Still...
Bleacher Report writes that, so far, the Pirates' off-season moves (additions/subtractions) are on par with the teams in the division.
The large market Brewers were rated A-; Pirates B+. Others in that range. Granted, the Pirates and Reds start behind. Still...
Thoughts On the Pirates Off Season
This off-season strikes me as one in which BC determined that the team is one year away from having the internal talent to (hopefully) compete. Thus, sign a slew of 1 year fungible stop-gaps that most won't remember 2 years or less from now, and pray that Endy, Davis, Gonzalez, Peguero, Priester, Burrows, and others are the real deal, and that all of the younger players on the current MLB roster , as well as Hayes, Keller, Brubaker, and Oviedo improve.
So far this off-season BC has spent about $22 mil to bring in 6 veterans and only Garcia (who has yet to be added to the 40 man roster) seems to have a legitimate shot of being with the team in 2024. I am not excited about any of the additions, or the strategy of 1 year only deals. If the team is going to be better in 2024, it could be good to have a legitimate ml starting pitcher around, and it appears that the cost of such is only going to continue become more prohibitive.
I don't think that next year's team is any worse than the one the Pirate's fielded in September, but I also don't think that it is much better.
So far this off-season BC has spent about $22 mil to bring in 6 veterans and only Garcia (who has yet to be added to the 40 man roster) seems to have a legitimate shot of being with the team in 2024. I am not excited about any of the additions, or the strategy of 1 year only deals. If the team is going to be better in 2024, it could be good to have a legitimate ml starting pitcher around, and it appears that the cost of such is only going to continue become more prohibitive.
I don't think that next year's team is any worse than the one the Pirate's fielded in September, but I also don't think that it is much better.
-
GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Thoughts On the Pirates Off Season
Maine,
We are always one year away. That's always the reason we go only so far.
In my opinion, that thinking needs to improve.
"One year away" makes folks hopeful....but, how often have they told us that they'll 'spend when the time's right"?
One year away means that it will never be "right."
We'll do the best we can with less-experienced players. That would be an improvement over some past cycles.
We are always one year away. That's always the reason we go only so far.
In my opinion, that thinking needs to improve.
"One year away" makes folks hopeful....but, how often have they told us that they'll 'spend when the time's right"?
One year away means that it will never be "right."
We'll do the best we can with less-experienced players. That would be an improvement over some past cycles.
Thoughts On the Pirates Off Season
Believe it or not, the Bucs made a minor league signing that I really like Angel Perdomo is a very tall lefty who throws hard and had a sub-2.00 ERA at AAA last year.
I will not be surprised to see him pitch for the Pirates next season.
I will not be surprised to see him pitch for the Pirates next season.