Absent the mother of al stretch runs, it is with sadness that I get ready to concede 2017. Wait til next year!
Keep Cutch and Cole. Bell blossoms, and our young pitchers figure it all out. Kang returns, or we obtain a third baseman, and Marte and Polanco join with Cutch for our dream outfield.
Hope springs eternal!
2018
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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fjk090852-7
- Posts: 3495
- Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:52 pm
2018
I too am waving the white flag. Just continue to play the season for pride. Don't quit on Hurdle or the fans. I do expect there will be some changes over the offseason, and some may include players who might have been part of the core. I think there will be at least two significant players who will be traded, and they will bring a return that will make the team more competitive in 2018.
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Bobster21
2018
3B37366D646D65686F706A5D0 wrote: I too am waving the white flag. Just continue to play the season for pride. Don't quit on Hurdle or the fans. I do expect there will be some changes over the offseason, and some may include players who might have been part of the core. I think there will be at least two significant players who will be traded, and they will bring a return that will make the team more competitive in 2018.
If they trade core players for prospects, they won't be more competitive in 2018. If they could acquire impact players for 2018, would Nutting be willing to pay them or would any return on trades have to consist of minimal salaried players? And whoever is on the 2018 roster, will they again be misguided by Hurdle who seems to put no emphasis on winning and maximum emphasis on making sure his players are well rested when they watch the playoff s on TV?
If they trade core players for prospects, they won't be more competitive in 2018. If they could acquire impact players for 2018, would Nutting be willing to pay them or would any return on trades have to consist of minimal salaried players? And whoever is on the 2018 roster, will they again be misguided by Hurdle who seems to put no emphasis on winning and maximum emphasis on making sure his players are well rested when they watch the playoff s on TV?
2018
537E73626574632320110 wrote: I too am waving the white flag. Just continue to play the season for pride. Don't quit on Hurdle or the fans. I do expect there will be some changes over the offseason, and some may include players who might have been part of the core. I think there will be at least two significant players who will be traded, and they will bring a return that will make the team more competitive in 2018.
If they trade core players for prospects, they won't be more competitive in 2018. If they could acquire impact players for 2018, would Nutting be willing to pay them or would any return on trades have to consist of minimal salaried players? And whoever is on the 2018 roster, will they again be misguided by Hurdle who seems to put no emphasis on winning and maximum emphasis on making sure his players are well rested when they watch the playoff s on TV?
I think any deals made should be to make team a contender in 2018, it would be ridiculous after last year and this year to say we are shooting for 2019 or 2020.
IMO, if that is done it shows that NH and management has been a failure and they shouldn't get the chance to make moves for the future. I know I end up saying this quite often but I just don't see how management can be considered successful and deserves a chance to build a winner at some future date based upon past record.
If they trade core players for prospects, they won't be more competitive in 2018. If they could acquire impact players for 2018, would Nutting be willing to pay them or would any return on trades have to consist of minimal salaried players? And whoever is on the 2018 roster, will they again be misguided by Hurdle who seems to put no emphasis on winning and maximum emphasis on making sure his players are well rested when they watch the playoff s on TV?
I think any deals made should be to make team a contender in 2018, it would be ridiculous after last year and this year to say we are shooting for 2019 or 2020.
IMO, if that is done it shows that NH and management has been a failure and they shouldn't get the chance to make moves for the future. I know I end up saying this quite often but I just don't see how management can be considered successful and deserves a chance to build a winner at some future date based upon past record.
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DemDog
2018
3530373139332A373E2D2B265F0 wrote: I'd like to see the moved Cole and keep Cutch.
I'm with you but will Cutch stay around if they are going into a rebuilding stage? I doubt it. He may want to go a contender even if it is part time or as DH down the road. He would just want a better chance to make it to and win a WS.
I'm with you but will Cutch stay around if they are going into a rebuilding stage? I doubt it. He may want to go a contender even if it is part time or as DH down the road. He would just want a better chance to make it to and win a WS.
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Bobster21
2018
I'm very curious as to the direction the org takes in 2018. Do they try to sell the fan base on the idea that the plan set forth by the self-proclaimed "Best Mgt Team in Baseball" was a failure and it's back to square 1 for rebuilding? From a PR standpoint, that will be a disaster. Is Hurdle replaced? Is NH replaced? That again tells the fan base that TBTIB was not so good after all, which makes Nutting and Coonelly look bad. And if they did replace one or both, Nutting's cheapness would continue to be the single most defeating aspect of the org which would show the fans that no matter who runs the team, little will change under Nutting. That's another PR disaster.
IMHO, Nutting has painted his org into a corner. Anything other than the semblance of a competitive team will suggest that the org has failed and lead to speculation that another rebuilding effort will be no more successful than the last. So I suspect we are going to see business as usual in 2018. They will assure the fans that the 2018 Pirates will be in the hunt and remind us that the 2017 Bucs were only 3 games out in August (while forgetting to mention that no more than a sub .500 record was required for that). Cutch will be kept. Cole could be traded for a near-ready top prospect and a useful, experienced position player (3B or OF). NH will be extended and dumpster diving for pitchers. Nova could be traded but not for much. SPs would be from among Taillon, Williams, Kuhl, Brault, Glasnow, Kingham and Cole if not dealt. Otherwise pretty much the same team. Diaz and Cervelli will share catching. Kang is a big question mark but they have to go on as if he won't play. There will be no appreciable increase in payroll.
Hurdle should be replaced. But for PR reasons, they could say he resigned (for whatever reason sounds good) and give him a job in the org. I'm sure they don't want to admit that he has failed as their mgr. But if he wants to go on managing elsewhere, they would have to just fire him. So that would look bad.
Of course it's also possible that Nutting's indifference this year is part of something bigger (a pending sale?). That would change everything. But if he continues to own them, they have to worry about alienating the fan base with the way they've done business these past 2 years and try to sell the fans (rightly or wrongly) on the idea that the team will be competitive. None of this is meant to suggest it's what I think they should do. But it's what I think they will do.
IMHO, Nutting has painted his org into a corner. Anything other than the semblance of a competitive team will suggest that the org has failed and lead to speculation that another rebuilding effort will be no more successful than the last. So I suspect we are going to see business as usual in 2018. They will assure the fans that the 2018 Pirates will be in the hunt and remind us that the 2017 Bucs were only 3 games out in August (while forgetting to mention that no more than a sub .500 record was required for that). Cutch will be kept. Cole could be traded for a near-ready top prospect and a useful, experienced position player (3B or OF). NH will be extended and dumpster diving for pitchers. Nova could be traded but not for much. SPs would be from among Taillon, Williams, Kuhl, Brault, Glasnow, Kingham and Cole if not dealt. Otherwise pretty much the same team. Diaz and Cervelli will share catching. Kang is a big question mark but they have to go on as if he won't play. There will be no appreciable increase in payroll.
Hurdle should be replaced. But for PR reasons, they could say he resigned (for whatever reason sounds good) and give him a job in the org. I'm sure they don't want to admit that he has failed as their mgr. But if he wants to go on managing elsewhere, they would have to just fire him. So that would look bad.
Of course it's also possible that Nutting's indifference this year is part of something bigger (a pending sale?). That would change everything. But if he continues to own them, they have to worry about alienating the fan base with the way they've done business these past 2 years and try to sell the fans (rightly or wrongly) on the idea that the team will be competitive. None of this is meant to suggest it's what I think they should do. But it's what I think they will do.
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ArnoldRothstein
2018
They might be getting near a point where a rebuild doesn't have much downside. It looks like their attendance bottom is about 19,000 per game (2008-2010). They're down to 24,000 so far this year, school has just started and they didn't even average 20,000 for the Dodgers series. If everything is headed that way, anyway, might as well get the costs down.
2018
For an effective rebuild, they have to be really bad for a few years. You have to draft in the top five to have any shot at top talent. The Pirates problem the last few years is they are drafting between twenty and thirty. Even last year and this coming one they will be around eleventh.