786541434D280 wrote: Lastly, Huntington did a lot of things wrong, but the contract that Vasquez signed was not one of them; so far below industry standards. I continue to lament that Vasquez was not traded to LA for Dustin May and another lesser prospect. Not moving Vasquez when he was a peak value was a real error in judgement.
I've wished the same wish. But I have to ask, given what went down and all the stuff with Vasquez would have been prior to the trade, at his arrest would the league have nullified the trade? Would they have left the Dodgers holding the bag on his stupidity? I have no clue, but I keep wondering if we were stuck even had a trade been made at the deadline? Are there trade rules that would have covered this?
I don't think so. Other than not paying him. I can't imagine there is a way they'd have gotten their prospects back.
To emphasize what Maine said, I liked NH a lot and gave him a lot of the benefit of the doubt. The inability to trade Vasquez as this past trade deadline was the absolute nail in the coffin for him in my book.
In hindsight I agree. What irks me about NH is he emphasized the need to have a great farm system and develop its own players to be successful.
Now that NH has left, it turns out the system he had in place was average at best. The lack of prospects in the farm system should have made NH more willing to deal Vasquez, it wasn't like NH had a plan that was likely to make the team contenders in 2020. NH was lucky he wasn't fired earlier.
John Ryan Murphy
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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Bobster21
John Ryan Murphy
I don't fault NH for not trading Vazquez at the TDL. He knew he had the best closer in MLB did not have to settle for the best deal at the TDL. At that time he had every reason to believe he had the whole off season to listen to bids from many teams who would really want Vazquez and take the best offer. The unforeseen circumstances that followed eliminated Vazquez from the game altogether and now we regret NH not taking the best deal at the TDL. But I believe if Vazquez had not had his legal problems NH would have gotten a good return for him this winter. Probably even better than at the TDL because at that point only the teams currently in contention would make serious bids. But in the off season, a lot more teams expect to be in contention the following year and would want MLB's top closer. We all wish a trade had been done back then as opposed to just losing Vazquez with no return. But I can't blame NH for thinking he could get a better deal in the off season.
John Ryan Murphy
I never thought very much of Huntington as GM. He could talk the talk, but he could never walk the walk. I didn't base my opinion about him on any particular trade or lack of a move(vasquez), but rather on our Bucs not winning even 1 Division Championship over his entire tenure in Pittsburgh. He has all the corporate speak down pat, but never produced any results.
John Ryan Murphy
5B706258706D7C767A597A777A150 wrote: Well, it looks the catching plan for 2020 is complete. They must not think a trade for a young catcher is feasible.
I absolutely agree with your post . Pretty sure the catching positions are filled .
I absolutely agree with your post . Pretty sure the catching positions are filled .
John Ryan Murphy
1E37313D3F520 wrote: Well, it looks the catching plan for 2020 is complete. They must not think a trade for a young catcher is feasible.
I absolutely agree with your post . Pretty sure the catching positions are filled .
____
Not only the catching position, I think they feel that all positions are filled.
I absolutely agree with your post . Pretty sure the catching positions are filled .
____
Not only the catching position, I think they feel that all positions are filled.
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Bobster21
John Ryan Murphy
524944454C404F210 wrote: Well, it looks the catching plan for 2020 is complete. They must not think a trade for a young catcher is feasible.
I absolutely agree with your post . Pretty sure the catching positions are filled .
____
Not only the catching position, I think they feel that all positions are filled.
I think you're right. It seems clear that this first year of the new regime is all about learning what they've got and trying to develop and improve their players. Nutting is not going to pay for any impact free agents anyway and even if they brought in a few moderate FAs it wouldn't be enough to make the Bucs competitive. So I think BC is content to go with what they've got for the time being. They also have Tucker and Hayes waiting in the wings and unless they did a complete upheaval of the pitching staff, they might as well see if different coaching and philosophies can improve what they've got. I think we might begin to see new talent brought in at the TDL and next off season after a year of assessing what they have. This doesn't inspire confidence for us fans in seeing many wins this year. But I suppose BC sees it as a necessary first step.
I absolutely agree with your post . Pretty sure the catching positions are filled .
____
Not only the catching position, I think they feel that all positions are filled.
I think you're right. It seems clear that this first year of the new regime is all about learning what they've got and trying to develop and improve their players. Nutting is not going to pay for any impact free agents anyway and even if they brought in a few moderate FAs it wouldn't be enough to make the Bucs competitive. So I think BC is content to go with what they've got for the time being. They also have Tucker and Hayes waiting in the wings and unless they did a complete upheaval of the pitching staff, they might as well see if different coaching and philosophies can improve what they've got. I think we might begin to see new talent brought in at the TDL and next off season after a year of assessing what they have. This doesn't inspire confidence for us fans in seeing many wins this year. But I suppose BC sees it as a necessary first step.
John Ryan Murphy
1A373A2B2C3D2A6A69580 wrote: Well, it looks the catching plan for 2020 is complete. They must not think a trade for a young catcher is feasible.
I absolutely agree with your post . Pretty sure the catching positions are filled .
____
Not only the catching position, I think they feel that all positions are filled.
I think you're right. It seems clear that this first year of the new regime is all about learning what they've got and trying to develop and improve their players. Nutting is not going to pay for any impact free agents anyway and even if they brought in a few moderate FAs it wouldn't be enough to make the Bucs competitive. So I think BC is content to go with what they've got for the time being. They also have Tucker and Hayes waiting in the wings and unless they did a complete upheaval of the pitching staff, they might as well see if different coaching and philosophies can improve what they've got. I think we might begin to see new talent brought in at the TDL and next off season after a year of assessing what they have. This doesn't inspire confidence for us fans in seeing many wins this year. But I suppose BC sees it as a necessary first step.
I wonder if BC in Toronto had reports on Pirate players and farm hands that some of them could improve dramatically with different coaching/instruction.
Just punting on a year only makes sense if you feel there is talent available that the previous regime wasn't able to bring out. Otherwise you would expect moves to be made to acquire players that could help a couple years down the road.
Although it could be a let's just take our time and make sure we do it right approach (because we have little margin for error). Plus the Bucs have not shown any sense of urgency to win with Nutting as owner.
I absolutely agree with your post . Pretty sure the catching positions are filled .
____
Not only the catching position, I think they feel that all positions are filled.
I think you're right. It seems clear that this first year of the new regime is all about learning what they've got and trying to develop and improve their players. Nutting is not going to pay for any impact free agents anyway and even if they brought in a few moderate FAs it wouldn't be enough to make the Bucs competitive. So I think BC is content to go with what they've got for the time being. They also have Tucker and Hayes waiting in the wings and unless they did a complete upheaval of the pitching staff, they might as well see if different coaching and philosophies can improve what they've got. I think we might begin to see new talent brought in at the TDL and next off season after a year of assessing what they have. This doesn't inspire confidence for us fans in seeing many wins this year. But I suppose BC sees it as a necessary first step.
I wonder if BC in Toronto had reports on Pirate players and farm hands that some of them could improve dramatically with different coaching/instruction.
Just punting on a year only makes sense if you feel there is talent available that the previous regime wasn't able to bring out. Otherwise you would expect moves to be made to acquire players that could help a couple years down the road.
Although it could be a let's just take our time and make sure we do it right approach (because we have little margin for error). Plus the Bucs have not shown any sense of urgency to win with Nutting as owner.
John Ryan Murphy
5F79786F79691A0 wrote: Well, it looks the catching plan for 2020 is complete. They must not think a trade for a young catcher is feasible.
I absolutely agree with your post . Pretty sure the catching positions are filled .
____
Not only the catching position, I think they feel that all positions are filled.
I think you're right. It seems clear that this first year of the new regime is all about learning what they've got and trying to develop and improve their players. Nutting is not going to pay for any impact free agents anyway and even if they brought in a few moderate FAs it wouldn't be enough to make the Bucs competitive. So I think BC is content to go with what they've got for the time being. They also have Tucker and Hayes waiting in the wings and unless they did a complete upheaval of the pitching staff, they might as well see if different coaching and philosophies can improve what they've got. I think we might begin to see new talent brought in at the TDL and next off season after a year of assessing what they have. This doesn't inspire confidence for us fans in seeing many wins this year. But I suppose BC sees it as a necessary first step.
I wonder if BC in Toronto had reports on Pirate players and farm hands that some of them could improve dramatically with different coaching/instruction.
Just punting on a year only makes sense if you feel there is talent available that the previous regime wasn't able to bring out. Otherwise you would expect moves to be made to acquire players that could help a couple years down the road.
Although it could be a let's just take our time and make sure we do it right approach (because we have little margin for error). Plus the Bucs have not shown any sense of urgency to win with Nutting as owner.
I'm ok with not changing a whole lot at the MLB level. They aren't winning this year. Trade a few of the guys who have value (Marte, Frazier, Moran, Bell, etc) and seriously shoot for 2 years from now. I agree with the idea of seeing what you have after a coaching change. The pitchers are very curious for me. Musgrove and Williams have had some solid MLB success. If a new pitching coach can get them back to their career bests (particularly Williams), that would go a long way.
I think Archer has one chance left. When I watch him, I see a guy who totally has the stuff to dominate. He just completely misses on a pitch every so often. He will throw 8 quality pitches and then leave a fastball in the middle. It will be interesting to see if they can coach that out of him (physically or mentally) or this is who he is.
I absolutely agree with your post . Pretty sure the catching positions are filled .
____
Not only the catching position, I think they feel that all positions are filled.
I think you're right. It seems clear that this first year of the new regime is all about learning what they've got and trying to develop and improve their players. Nutting is not going to pay for any impact free agents anyway and even if they brought in a few moderate FAs it wouldn't be enough to make the Bucs competitive. So I think BC is content to go with what they've got for the time being. They also have Tucker and Hayes waiting in the wings and unless they did a complete upheaval of the pitching staff, they might as well see if different coaching and philosophies can improve what they've got. I think we might begin to see new talent brought in at the TDL and next off season after a year of assessing what they have. This doesn't inspire confidence for us fans in seeing many wins this year. But I suppose BC sees it as a necessary first step.
I wonder if BC in Toronto had reports on Pirate players and farm hands that some of them could improve dramatically with different coaching/instruction.
Just punting on a year only makes sense if you feel there is talent available that the previous regime wasn't able to bring out. Otherwise you would expect moves to be made to acquire players that could help a couple years down the road.
Although it could be a let's just take our time and make sure we do it right approach (because we have little margin for error). Plus the Bucs have not shown any sense of urgency to win with Nutting as owner.
I'm ok with not changing a whole lot at the MLB level. They aren't winning this year. Trade a few of the guys who have value (Marte, Frazier, Moran, Bell, etc) and seriously shoot for 2 years from now. I agree with the idea of seeing what you have after a coaching change. The pitchers are very curious for me. Musgrove and Williams have had some solid MLB success. If a new pitching coach can get them back to their career bests (particularly Williams), that would go a long way.
I think Archer has one chance left. When I watch him, I see a guy who totally has the stuff to dominate. He just completely misses on a pitch every so often. He will throw 8 quality pitches and then leave a fastball in the middle. It will be interesting to see if they can coach that out of him (physically or mentally) or this is who he is.
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Bobster21
John Ryan Murphy
557372657363100 wrote: Well, it looks the catching plan for 2020 is complete. They must not think a trade for a young catcher is feasible.
I absolutely agree with your post . Pretty sure the catching positions are filled .
____
Not only the catching position, I think they feel that all positions are filled.
I think you're right. It seems clear that this first year of the new regime is all about learning what they've got and trying to develop and improve their players. Nutting is not going to pay for any impact free agents anyway and even if they brought in a few moderate FAs it wouldn't be enough to make the Bucs competitive. So I think BC is content to go with what they've got for the time being. They also have Tucker and Hayes waiting in the wings and unless they did a complete upheaval of the pitching staff, they might as well see if different coaching and philosophies can improve what they've got. I think we might begin to see new talent brought in at the TDL and next off season after a year of assessing what they have. This doesn't inspire confidence for us fans in seeing many wins this year. But I suppose BC sees it as a necessary first step.
I wonder if BC in Toronto had reports on Pirate players and farm hands that some of them could improve dramatically with different coaching/instruction.
Just punting on a year only makes sense if you feel there is talent available that the previous regime wasn't able to bring out. Otherwise you would expect moves to be made to acquire players that could help a couple years down the road.
Although it could be a let's just take our time and make sure we do it right approach (because we have little margin for error). Plus the Bucs have not shown any sense of urgency to win with Nutting as owner.
This is not a team that thinks it's a few free agents short of a WC spot. After a 69-93 season, anything other than a massive refiguring of the roster with established, productive players could be seen as punting. And Nutting doesn't pay for such players. I doubt BC had much insider knowledge of Pirate prospects unless Toronto had been interested in a specific player or 2. But I'm sure he's aware of comments from Glasnow and Cole that the Pirates did not let them pitch to their strengths. So it makes sense to me to want to see if other prospects as well as young Pirates like Keller can be improved before looking for new blood. They need to see if Newman and Reynolds are the real deal after both had surprisingly outstanding rookie seasons. They need to see what they have in Hayes and Tucker. Can Williams get back to the pitcher he was in 2018? Can Keller improve? Can Musgrove continue to progress. Brault had a good 2nd half. Can he sustain improvement? What have they now got in Polanco? What does the pipeline have in AA and A?
Some fans were advocating to blow it all up and rebuild. Well, this is the rebuild. It starts with a new regime evaluating the young talent in the organization. Nobody's gonna blow anything up until determinations are made. So this year we'll find out how many changes are going to be needed to make this a competitive team.
I absolutely agree with your post . Pretty sure the catching positions are filled .
____
Not only the catching position, I think they feel that all positions are filled.
I think you're right. It seems clear that this first year of the new regime is all about learning what they've got and trying to develop and improve their players. Nutting is not going to pay for any impact free agents anyway and even if they brought in a few moderate FAs it wouldn't be enough to make the Bucs competitive. So I think BC is content to go with what they've got for the time being. They also have Tucker and Hayes waiting in the wings and unless they did a complete upheaval of the pitching staff, they might as well see if different coaching and philosophies can improve what they've got. I think we might begin to see new talent brought in at the TDL and next off season after a year of assessing what they have. This doesn't inspire confidence for us fans in seeing many wins this year. But I suppose BC sees it as a necessary first step.
I wonder if BC in Toronto had reports on Pirate players and farm hands that some of them could improve dramatically with different coaching/instruction.
Just punting on a year only makes sense if you feel there is talent available that the previous regime wasn't able to bring out. Otherwise you would expect moves to be made to acquire players that could help a couple years down the road.
Although it could be a let's just take our time and make sure we do it right approach (because we have little margin for error). Plus the Bucs have not shown any sense of urgency to win with Nutting as owner.
This is not a team that thinks it's a few free agents short of a WC spot. After a 69-93 season, anything other than a massive refiguring of the roster with established, productive players could be seen as punting. And Nutting doesn't pay for such players. I doubt BC had much insider knowledge of Pirate prospects unless Toronto had been interested in a specific player or 2. But I'm sure he's aware of comments from Glasnow and Cole that the Pirates did not let them pitch to their strengths. So it makes sense to me to want to see if other prospects as well as young Pirates like Keller can be improved before looking for new blood. They need to see if Newman and Reynolds are the real deal after both had surprisingly outstanding rookie seasons. They need to see what they have in Hayes and Tucker. Can Williams get back to the pitcher he was in 2018? Can Keller improve? Can Musgrove continue to progress. Brault had a good 2nd half. Can he sustain improvement? What have they now got in Polanco? What does the pipeline have in AA and A?
Some fans were advocating to blow it all up and rebuild. Well, this is the rebuild. It starts with a new regime evaluating the young talent in the organization. Nobody's gonna blow anything up until determinations are made. So this year we'll find out how many changes are going to be needed to make this a competitive team.
John Ryan Murphy
476A67767160773734050 wrote: Well, it looks the catching plan for 2020 is complete. They must not think a trade for a young catcher is feasible.
I absolutely agree with your post . Pretty sure the catching positions are filled .
____
Not only the catching position, I think they feel that all positions are filled.
I think you're right. It seems clear that this first year of the new regime is all about learning what they've got and trying to develop and improve their players. Nutting is not going to pay for any impact free agents anyway and even if they brought in a few moderate FAs it wouldn't be enough to make the Bucs competitive. So I think BC is content to go with what they've got for the time being. They also have Tucker and Hayes waiting in the wings and unless they did a complete upheaval of the pitching staff, they might as well see if different coaching and philosophies can improve what they've got. I think we might begin to see new talent brought in at the TDL and next off season after a year of assessing what they have. This doesn't inspire confidence for us fans in seeing many wins this year. But I suppose BC sees it as a necessary first step.
I wonder if BC in Toronto had reports on Pirate players and farm hands that some of them could improve dramatically with different coaching/instruction.
Just punting on a year only makes sense if you feel there is talent available that the previous regime wasn't able to bring out. Otherwise you would expect moves to be made to acquire players that could help a couple years down the road.
Although it could be a let's just take our time and make sure we do it right approach (because we have little margin for error). Plus the Bucs have not shown any sense of urgency to win with Nutting as owner.
This is not a team that thinks it's a few free agents short of a WC spot. After a 69-93 season, anything other than a massive refiguring of the roster with established, productive players could be seen as punting. And Nutting doesn't pay for such players. I doubt BC had much insider knowledge of Pirate prospects unless Toronto had been interested in a specific player or 2. But I'm sure he's aware of comments from Glasnow and Cole that the Pirates did not let them pitch to their strengths. So it makes sense to me to want to see if other prospects as well as young Pirates like Keller can be improved before looking for new blood. They need to see if Newman and Reynolds are the real deal after both had surprisingly outstanding rookie seasons. They need to see what they have in Hayes and Tucker. Can Williams get back to the pitcher he was in 2018? Can Keller improve? Can Musgrove continue to progress. Brault had a good 2nd half. Can he sustain improvement? What have they now got in Polanco? What does the pipeline have in AA and A?
Some fans were advocating to blow it all up and rebuild. Well, this is the rebuild. It starts with a new regime evaluating the young talent in the organization. Nobody's gonna blow anything up until determinations are made. So this year we'll find out how many changes are going to be needed to make this a competitive team.
the wait and see what we have approach can mean that they are in no hurry to deal Marte too. It is definitely a rebuild.
I absolutely agree with your post . Pretty sure the catching positions are filled .
____
Not only the catching position, I think they feel that all positions are filled.
I think you're right. It seems clear that this first year of the new regime is all about learning what they've got and trying to develop and improve their players. Nutting is not going to pay for any impact free agents anyway and even if they brought in a few moderate FAs it wouldn't be enough to make the Bucs competitive. So I think BC is content to go with what they've got for the time being. They also have Tucker and Hayes waiting in the wings and unless they did a complete upheaval of the pitching staff, they might as well see if different coaching and philosophies can improve what they've got. I think we might begin to see new talent brought in at the TDL and next off season after a year of assessing what they have. This doesn't inspire confidence for us fans in seeing many wins this year. But I suppose BC sees it as a necessary first step.
I wonder if BC in Toronto had reports on Pirate players and farm hands that some of them could improve dramatically with different coaching/instruction.
Just punting on a year only makes sense if you feel there is talent available that the previous regime wasn't able to bring out. Otherwise you would expect moves to be made to acquire players that could help a couple years down the road.
Although it could be a let's just take our time and make sure we do it right approach (because we have little margin for error). Plus the Bucs have not shown any sense of urgency to win with Nutting as owner.
This is not a team that thinks it's a few free agents short of a WC spot. After a 69-93 season, anything other than a massive refiguring of the roster with established, productive players could be seen as punting. And Nutting doesn't pay for such players. I doubt BC had much insider knowledge of Pirate prospects unless Toronto had been interested in a specific player or 2. But I'm sure he's aware of comments from Glasnow and Cole that the Pirates did not let them pitch to their strengths. So it makes sense to me to want to see if other prospects as well as young Pirates like Keller can be improved before looking for new blood. They need to see if Newman and Reynolds are the real deal after both had surprisingly outstanding rookie seasons. They need to see what they have in Hayes and Tucker. Can Williams get back to the pitcher he was in 2018? Can Keller improve? Can Musgrove continue to progress. Brault had a good 2nd half. Can he sustain improvement? What have they now got in Polanco? What does the pipeline have in AA and A?
Some fans were advocating to blow it all up and rebuild. Well, this is the rebuild. It starts with a new regime evaluating the young talent in the organization. Nobody's gonna blow anything up until determinations are made. So this year we'll find out how many changes are going to be needed to make this a competitive team.
the wait and see what we have approach can mean that they are in no hurry to deal Marte too. It is definitely a rebuild.