Neil said Nova was the second best pitcher in FA this year by the Pirates determination. He was very surprised the Pirates were able to sign him.
So, if Nova had commanded too much money, what would the Pirates have done in FA?
Could 2017 Be a Special Season
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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rucker59@gmail.com
Could 2017 Be a Special Season
7A5D4C484D506F5B4C4D4D50290 wrote: I absolutely agree that this could be a special year (which is why it's so frustrating that they won....never mind, I'm not going back down this path).
If Kang is in the line up fairly soon, I REALLY like the line up a lot. The bench can't be as strong as last year, but Jason and Freese give some nice depth.
The rotation is the BIG Q. Ifs all over the place. I'm pleasantly surprised by the pitching this spring, including the AAA guys and also Holmes. But it's only spring...
IF the top three in the rotation can pitch to expectations and if Glasnow could come in mid-season and be dominate then I think this is a team capable of hanging close to the Cubs. If the Cubs win 100+ again, they win going away. But if the Cubs win more like 95 I think the Pirates could make it interesting.
The best way to get the Cubs to 95? The Pirates need to beat the Cubs. Last year the Pirates helped the Cubs tremendously by losing 15 of 19 games. If the Pirates can go 9-9 this year the Pirates have a shot. I don't think they can compete with the Cubs for the division I just don't see it VA. Keep in mind they finished 25 games behind the Cubs in the division last season. That is a lot of ground to make up. I do think they can compete for both the 1st and 2nd wildcard spots and I like their chances of competing for one of those for most of the season as long as they can stay healthy and have no major injuries. If Glasnow can come in and pitch like the dominant guy we have seen him be in the Minors that changes a lot of things. I think the rotation with Cole,Taillon ,and Nova at the top will be okay and this offense is going to score runs. They should be in the running come September for a playoff spot.
Yeah, I'm sure you're correct, but there's two things:
I'm an eternal optimist and I hate the Cubs. Put the two together I can easily imagine the Pirates chasing the Cubs down.
Actually, I do think the Pirates can make things interesting if a lot of stuff breaks there way. For sure everyone having a bounce back season from last year. The other thing that would change the dynamic is if Glasnow were to be dominate. If that happens, this team could compete.
If Kang is in the line up fairly soon, I REALLY like the line up a lot. The bench can't be as strong as last year, but Jason and Freese give some nice depth.
The rotation is the BIG Q. Ifs all over the place. I'm pleasantly surprised by the pitching this spring, including the AAA guys and also Holmes. But it's only spring...
IF the top three in the rotation can pitch to expectations and if Glasnow could come in mid-season and be dominate then I think this is a team capable of hanging close to the Cubs. If the Cubs win 100+ again, they win going away. But if the Cubs win more like 95 I think the Pirates could make it interesting.
The best way to get the Cubs to 95? The Pirates need to beat the Cubs. Last year the Pirates helped the Cubs tremendously by losing 15 of 19 games. If the Pirates can go 9-9 this year the Pirates have a shot. I don't think they can compete with the Cubs for the division I just don't see it VA. Keep in mind they finished 25 games behind the Cubs in the division last season. That is a lot of ground to make up. I do think they can compete for both the 1st and 2nd wildcard spots and I like their chances of competing for one of those for most of the season as long as they can stay healthy and have no major injuries. If Glasnow can come in and pitch like the dominant guy we have seen him be in the Minors that changes a lot of things. I think the rotation with Cole,Taillon ,and Nova at the top will be okay and this offense is going to score runs. They should be in the running come September for a playoff spot.
Yeah, I'm sure you're correct, but there's two things:
I'm an eternal optimist and I hate the Cubs. Put the two together I can easily imagine the Pirates chasing the Cubs down.
Actually, I do think the Pirates can make things interesting if a lot of stuff breaks there way. For sure everyone having a bounce back season from last year. The other thing that would change the dynamic is if Glasnow were to be dominate. If that happens, this team could compete.
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UtahPirate
- Posts: 582
- Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:36 pm
Could 2017 Be a Special Season
373C34383D3C276264132A323B3C3C7D303C530 wrote: I'm afraid alot of posters are going to be disappointed with Nova. Seems like the feeling that he a guaranteed quality mid-rotation starter are very high. He has a career with a lot of warts.
His contract indicates strongly that the market doesn't agree with the above expectations. I understand he may have taken less money to stay here, but everyone else got a look at his work last year too. He signed a fringe back of the rotation contract by todays standards.
The market has been wrong before, it will be wrong again, but expectations just seem very high.
Didn't only a few pitchers get more money than Nova on the market? I know Rich Hill and Jason Hammel did (not by much). Many sites had Nova ranked higher too.
I am sure I am missing some, this is just off the top of my head. What was the market for starting pitchers this off season?
Seems that after a lot of early talk about high prices, it was a really soft market. I think that played well in the price we got Nova for -- and I expect him to be just fine as a #3 guy for us.
His contract indicates strongly that the market doesn't agree with the above expectations. I understand he may have taken less money to stay here, but everyone else got a look at his work last year too. He signed a fringe back of the rotation contract by todays standards.
The market has been wrong before, it will be wrong again, but expectations just seem very high.
Didn't only a few pitchers get more money than Nova on the market? I know Rich Hill and Jason Hammel did (not by much). Many sites had Nova ranked higher too.
I am sure I am missing some, this is just off the top of my head. What was the market for starting pitchers this off season?
Seems that after a lot of early talk about high prices, it was a really soft market. I think that played well in the price we got Nova for -- and I expect him to be just fine as a #3 guy for us.
Could 2017 Be a Special Season
I don't understand. The lack of quality starting pitching options in FA would have driven prices up for the one or two options that were viable, not down.
Charlie Morton got 2yr/14 with 5 million in innings incentives. (Which we all know he will never reach because he can't walk down the street without landing on the DL)
I'm just pointing out that in 2017, a 3yr/26 isn't middle of the rotation money by any stetch. NH may have stolen Nova, or we may have a back of the rotation guy.
I'm glad he had 10-11 successful games to end the year last season though. He's like the Anti-Niese. Niese had sucked for quite some time and we traded Walker for him in hopes of a rebound.
Nova is coming off a good stretch of baseball
Charlie Morton got 2yr/14 with 5 million in innings incentives. (Which we all know he will never reach because he can't walk down the street without landing on the DL)
I'm just pointing out that in 2017, a 3yr/26 isn't middle of the rotation money by any stetch. NH may have stolen Nova, or we may have a back of the rotation guy.
I'm glad he had 10-11 successful games to end the year last season though. He's like the Anti-Niese. Niese had sucked for quite some time and we traded Walker for him in hopes of a rebound.
Nova is coming off a good stretch of baseball
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OrlandoMerced
Could 2017 Be a Special Season
That's assuming the market knows how to value pitchers on a go-forward basis. The market is really great at paying guys that have a history of strong performance (see Price & Grienke), but doesn't know what to do with guys like Happ, Hill or Nova. I don't think it's unreasonable to look at Nova's contract and say "if he were worth a damn, he'd have gotten way more money". But I don't think that's an effective way of assessing that situation.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Could 2017 Be a Special Season
If the Pirates would have signed Nova for $17 million a year, you would have been happy and it shows he is a better pitcher?
Maybe after all the high prices Pitchers have been getting teams are realizing they were being overpaid and spent their money else where?
Maybe after all the high prices Pitchers have been getting teams are realizing they were being overpaid and spent their money else where?
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PirateGold
- Posts: 24
- Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:20 pm
Could 2017 Be a Special Season
5B66617B66610F0 wrote: We could win from 70-95 games.
This is where I am, too.
This is where I am, too.
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OrlandoMerced
Could 2017 Be a Special Season
Indy Altoona Bradenton
C Diaz Jhang Kelley
1B Espinal Joe Munoz
2B Moroff Reyes Tucker
3B Wood Kramer Hayes
SS Ngoepe Newman Alemais
RF Osuna Luplow Hill
CF Meadows Escobar Hughston
LF Barnes Suiter Suchy
DH Weiss Mathisen Craig
SP1 Glasnow Holmes Keller
SP2 Williams Eppler Hinsz
SP3 Kingham Garcia Hearns
SP4 Brault Dickson Vieux
SP5 Sadler Waddell Agrazal
I made a little table to try and look at what the organzational depth looks like. This is assuming that Hutchison breaks camp with the team as the fifth starter. I think what I like most about is the rotational depth, Indy is going to graduate 2-3 guys, Holmes and Garcia are likely to progress and the real depth is with the top 3 at bradenton.
C Diaz Jhang Kelley
1B Espinal Joe Munoz
2B Moroff Reyes Tucker
3B Wood Kramer Hayes
SS Ngoepe Newman Alemais
RF Osuna Luplow Hill
CF Meadows Escobar Hughston
LF Barnes Suiter Suchy
DH Weiss Mathisen Craig
SP1 Glasnow Holmes Keller
SP2 Williams Eppler Hinsz
SP3 Kingham Garcia Hearns
SP4 Brault Dickson Vieux
SP5 Sadler Waddell Agrazal
I made a little table to try and look at what the organzational depth looks like. This is assuming that Hutchison breaks camp with the team as the fifth starter. I think what I like most about is the rotational depth, Indy is going to graduate 2-3 guys, Holmes and Garcia are likely to progress and the real depth is with the top 3 at bradenton.