133534233525560 wrote: I don't want young, soon to be starters not being used on the bench. I want them playing every day in the minors to get their at bats.
The biggest problem is that they aren't developing starters and these guys play significant roles.
Freese was a late signing due to Kang not ready to start the season from the previous season injury. They certainly weren't going to call up a youngster to fill that role.
If Hurdle was willing to play youngsters more they wouldn't rot on the bench in role as back ups. A good manager would get them in 4 or 5 out of 7 games. It should be no problem getting a back up outfielder at least 3 starts a week and a couple pinch hit at bats. If the players have a had a season or a season and a half at triple A they should be ready for major leagues.
That means you are benching your better players even more. Did you really want McCutchen to rest more? Marte?
Hurdle used his bench way too much in my opinion. I hope it was based on a new resting strategy and that plan is over. Even still, Hurdle loved his defensive replacements often using them too early and taking out the bats.
Jung Ho Kang
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
Jung Ho Kang
68636B676263783D3B4C756D646363226F630C0 wrote: I don't want young, soon to be starters not being used on the bench. I want them playing every day in the minors to get their at bats.
The biggest problem is that they aren't developing starters and these guys play significant roles.
Freese was a late signing due to Kang not ready to start the season from the previous season injury. They certainly weren't going to call up a youngster to fill that role.
If Hurdle was willing to play youngsters more they wouldn't rot on the bench in role as back ups. A good manager would get them in 4 or 5 out of 7 games. It should be no problem getting a back up outfielder at least 3 starts a week and a couple pinch hit at bats. If the players have a had a season or a season and a half at triple A they should be ready for major leagues.
That means you are benching your better players even more. Did you really want McCutchen to rest more? Marte?
Hurdle used his bench way too much in my opinion. I hope it was based on a new resting strategy and that plan is over. Even still, Hurdle loved his defensive replacements often using them too early and taking out the bats.
somehow S-Rod and Matt Joyce got into 140 games and Freese in 141 in 2016
The biggest problem is that they aren't developing starters and these guys play significant roles.
Freese was a late signing due to Kang not ready to start the season from the previous season injury. They certainly weren't going to call up a youngster to fill that role.
If Hurdle was willing to play youngsters more they wouldn't rot on the bench in role as back ups. A good manager would get them in 4 or 5 out of 7 games. It should be no problem getting a back up outfielder at least 3 starts a week and a couple pinch hit at bats. If the players have a had a season or a season and a half at triple A they should be ready for major leagues.
That means you are benching your better players even more. Did you really want McCutchen to rest more? Marte?
Hurdle used his bench way too much in my opinion. I hope it was based on a new resting strategy and that plan is over. Even still, Hurdle loved his defensive replacements often using them too early and taking out the bats.
somehow S-Rod and Matt Joyce got into 140 games and Freese in 141 in 2016
-
dogknot17@yahoo.co
Jung Ho Kang
537574637565160 wrote:
somehow S-Rod and Matt Joyce got into 140 games and Freese in 141 in 2016
But Rodriguez played half that time in the field with only 731 innings and Joyce was 402 innings. A full season (162 games x 9 innings) is 1,458 not counting extra innings games.
I wouldn't want someone like Meadows to only play 400 innings if he can play over 900 innings in the minors.
somehow S-Rod and Matt Joyce got into 140 games and Freese in 141 in 2016
But Rodriguez played half that time in the field with only 731 innings and Joyce was 402 innings. A full season (162 games x 9 innings) is 1,458 not counting extra innings games.
I wouldn't want someone like Meadows to only play 400 innings if he can play over 900 innings in the minors.
Jung Ho Kang
575C54585D5C470204734A525B5C5C1D505C330 wrote:
somehow S-Rod and Matt Joyce got into 140 games and Freese in 141 in 2016
But Rodriguez played half that time in the field with only 731 innings and Joyce was 402 innings. A full season (162 games x 9 innings) is 1,458 not counting extra innings games.
I wouldn't want someone like Meadows to only play 400 innings if he can play over 900 innings in the minors.
those three also got a lot of at bats:
S-Rod 300, 342 pa
Joyce 231, 293 pa
Freese 437, 492
A back up outfielder might play the innings that Joyce and S-Rod did. I think the Bucs could do a lot better job in integrating their young players and save money by not having spending as much as they do on back ups.
somehow S-Rod and Matt Joyce got into 140 games and Freese in 141 in 2016
But Rodriguez played half that time in the field with only 731 innings and Joyce was 402 innings. A full season (162 games x 9 innings) is 1,458 not counting extra innings games.
I wouldn't want someone like Meadows to only play 400 innings if he can play over 900 innings in the minors.
those three also got a lot of at bats:
S-Rod 300, 342 pa
Joyce 231, 293 pa
Freese 437, 492
A back up outfielder might play the innings that Joyce and S-Rod did. I think the Bucs could do a lot better job in integrating their young players and save money by not having spending as much as they do on back ups.
-
dogknot17@yahoo.co
Jung Ho Kang
577170677161120 wrote:
somehow S-Rod and Matt Joyce got into 140 games and Freese in 141 in 2016
But Rodriguez played half that time in the field with only 731 innings and Joyce was 402 innings. A full season (162 games x 9 innings) is 1,458 not counting extra innings games.
I wouldn't want someone like Meadows to only play 400 innings if he can play over 900 innings in the minors.
those three also got a lot of at bats:
S-Rod 300, 342 pa
Joyce 231, 293 pa
Freese 437, 492
A back up outfielder might play the innings that Joyce and S-Rod did. I think the Bucs could do a lot better job in integrating their young players and save money by not having spending as much as they do on back ups.
These veteran bench players are not blocking any younger players. The younger players are starting and should be starting. The Pirates aren't paying those guys. Bell is probably the best starter and he is the lowest paid. There is no difference than paying him $5 million and a bench player minimum salary.
I wouldn't have wanted Bell sitting on the bench in 2016. That wouldn't have prepared him for 2017 and beyond. The bigger problem was that Jaso was the starter, not that Bell wasn't on the bench and they paid Rodriguez $1.9 million or Freese $3 million instead.
somehow S-Rod and Matt Joyce got into 140 games and Freese in 141 in 2016
But Rodriguez played half that time in the field with only 731 innings and Joyce was 402 innings. A full season (162 games x 9 innings) is 1,458 not counting extra innings games.
I wouldn't want someone like Meadows to only play 400 innings if he can play over 900 innings in the minors.
those three also got a lot of at bats:
S-Rod 300, 342 pa
Joyce 231, 293 pa
Freese 437, 492
A back up outfielder might play the innings that Joyce and S-Rod did. I think the Bucs could do a lot better job in integrating their young players and save money by not having spending as much as they do on back ups.
These veteran bench players are not blocking any younger players. The younger players are starting and should be starting. The Pirates aren't paying those guys. Bell is probably the best starter and he is the lowest paid. There is no difference than paying him $5 million and a bench player minimum salary.
I wouldn't have wanted Bell sitting on the bench in 2016. That wouldn't have prepared him for 2017 and beyond. The bigger problem was that Jaso was the starter, not that Bell wasn't on the bench and they paid Rodriguez $1.9 million or Freese $3 million instead.
Jung Ho Kang
79727A767372692C2A5D647C757272337E721D0 wrote:
somehow S-Rod and Matt Joyce got into 140 games and Freese in 141 in 2016
But Rodriguez played half that time in the field with only 731 innings and Joyce was 402 innings. A full season (162 games x 9 innings) is 1,458 not counting extra innings games.
I wouldn't want someone like Meadows to only play 400 innings if he can play over 900 innings in the minors.
those three also got a lot of at bats:
S-Rod 300, 342 pa
Joyce 231, 293 pa
Freese 437, 492
A back up outfielder might play the innings that Joyce and S-Rod did. I think the Bucs could do a lot better job in integrating their young players and save money by not having spending as much as they do on back ups.
These veteran bench players are not blocking any younger players. The younger players are starting and should be starting. The Pirates aren't paying those guys. Bell is probably the best starter and he is the lowest paid. There is no difference than paying him $5 million and a bench player minimum salary.
I wouldn't have wanted Bell sitting on the bench in 2016. That wouldn't have prepared him for 2017 and beyond. The bigger problem was that Jaso was the starter, not that Bell wasn't on the bench and they paid Rodriguez $1.9 million or Freese $3 million instead.
IMO, there is no need to have S-Rod or Freese on this roster. They will wind up taking at bats from Moran, Frazier, Luplow, and Moroff. That is stupid for this upcoming year.
somehow S-Rod and Matt Joyce got into 140 games and Freese in 141 in 2016
But Rodriguez played half that time in the field with only 731 innings and Joyce was 402 innings. A full season (162 games x 9 innings) is 1,458 not counting extra innings games.
I wouldn't want someone like Meadows to only play 400 innings if he can play over 900 innings in the minors.
those three also got a lot of at bats:
S-Rod 300, 342 pa
Joyce 231, 293 pa
Freese 437, 492
A back up outfielder might play the innings that Joyce and S-Rod did. I think the Bucs could do a lot better job in integrating their young players and save money by not having spending as much as they do on back ups.
These veteran bench players are not blocking any younger players. The younger players are starting and should be starting. The Pirates aren't paying those guys. Bell is probably the best starter and he is the lowest paid. There is no difference than paying him $5 million and a bench player minimum salary.
I wouldn't have wanted Bell sitting on the bench in 2016. That wouldn't have prepared him for 2017 and beyond. The bigger problem was that Jaso was the starter, not that Bell wasn't on the bench and they paid Rodriguez $1.9 million or Freese $3 million instead.
IMO, there is no need to have S-Rod or Freese on this roster. They will wind up taking at bats from Moran, Frazier, Luplow, and Moroff. That is stupid for this upcoming year.
-
dogknot17@yahoo.co
Jung Ho Kang
627F5B5957320 wrote:
somehow S-Rod and Matt Joyce got into 140 games and Freese in 141 in 2016
But Rodriguez played half that time in the field with only 731 innings and Joyce was 402 innings. A full season (162 games x 9 innings) is 1,458 not counting extra innings games.
I wouldn't want someone like Meadows to only play 400 innings if he can play over 900 innings in the minors.
those three also got a lot of at bats:
S-Rod 300, 342 pa
Joyce 231, 293 pa
Freese 437, 492
A back up outfielder might play the innings that Joyce and S-Rod did. I think the Bucs could do a lot better job in integrating their young players and save money by not having spending as much as they do on back ups.
These veteran bench players are not blocking any younger players. The younger players are starting and should be starting. The Pirates aren't paying those guys. Bell is probably the best starter and he is the lowest paid. There is no difference than paying him $5 million and a bench player minimum salary.
I wouldn't have wanted Bell sitting on the bench in 2016. That wouldn't have prepared him for 2017 and beyond. The bigger problem was that Jaso was the starter, not that Bell wasn't on the bench and they paid Rodriguez $1.9 million or Freese $3 million instead.
IMO, there is no need to have S-Rod or Freese on this roster. They will wind up taking at bats from Moran, Frazier, Luplow, and Moroff. That is stupid for this upcoming year.
All those guys you mentioned should be starting. They shouldn't be on the bench. Well, maybe Moroff. He might be a utility player in the long run. But I'd rather him playing every day in the minors than sit on the bench in Pittsburgh.
somehow S-Rod and Matt Joyce got into 140 games and Freese in 141 in 2016
But Rodriguez played half that time in the field with only 731 innings and Joyce was 402 innings. A full season (162 games x 9 innings) is 1,458 not counting extra innings games.
I wouldn't want someone like Meadows to only play 400 innings if he can play over 900 innings in the minors.
those three also got a lot of at bats:
S-Rod 300, 342 pa
Joyce 231, 293 pa
Freese 437, 492
A back up outfielder might play the innings that Joyce and S-Rod did. I think the Bucs could do a lot better job in integrating their young players and save money by not having spending as much as they do on back ups.
These veteran bench players are not blocking any younger players. The younger players are starting and should be starting. The Pirates aren't paying those guys. Bell is probably the best starter and he is the lowest paid. There is no difference than paying him $5 million and a bench player minimum salary.
I wouldn't have wanted Bell sitting on the bench in 2016. That wouldn't have prepared him for 2017 and beyond. The bigger problem was that Jaso was the starter, not that Bell wasn't on the bench and they paid Rodriguez $1.9 million or Freese $3 million instead.
IMO, there is no need to have S-Rod or Freese on this roster. They will wind up taking at bats from Moran, Frazier, Luplow, and Moroff. That is stupid for this upcoming year.
All those guys you mentioned should be starting. They shouldn't be on the bench. Well, maybe Moroff. He might be a utility player in the long run. But I'd rather him playing every day in the minors than sit on the bench in Pittsburgh.
Jung Ho Kang
2E252D2124253E7B7D0A332B2225256429254A0 wrote:
somehow S-Rod and Matt Joyce got into 140 games and Freese in 141 in 2016
But Rodriguez played half that time in the field with only 731 innings and Joyce was 402 innings. A full season (162 games x 9 innings) is 1,458 not counting extra innings games.
I wouldn't want someone like Meadows to only play 400 innings if he can play over 900 innings in the minors.
those three also got a lot of at bats:
S-Rod 300, 342 pa
Joyce 231, 293 pa
Freese 437, 492
A back up outfielder might play the innings that Joyce and S-Rod did. I think the Bucs could do a lot better job in integrating their young players and save money by not having spending as much as they do on back ups.
These veteran bench players are not blocking any younger players. The younger players are starting and should be starting. The Pirates aren't paying those guys. Bell is probably the best starter and he is the lowest paid. There is no difference than paying him $5 million and a bench player minimum salary.
I wouldn't have wanted Bell sitting on the bench in 2016. That wouldn't have prepared him for 2017 and beyond. The bigger problem was that Jaso was the starter, not that Bell wasn't on the bench and they paid Rodriguez $1.9 million or Freese $3 million instead.
IMO, there is no need to have S-Rod or Freese on this roster. They will wind up taking at bats from Moran, Frazier, Luplow, and Moroff. That is stupid for this upcoming year.
All those guys you mentioned should be starting. They shouldn't be on the bench. Well, maybe Moroff. He might be a utility player in the long run. But I'd rather him playing every day in the minors than sit on the bench in Pittsburgh.
The problem is that Hurdle doesn't do starters. Everyone gets to play a lot. Everyone gets multiple starts a week. All of those guys should be getting at bats over Freese and SRod. As long as they are on the roster, Hurdle will play them (too much).
somehow S-Rod and Matt Joyce got into 140 games and Freese in 141 in 2016
But Rodriguez played half that time in the field with only 731 innings and Joyce was 402 innings. A full season (162 games x 9 innings) is 1,458 not counting extra innings games.
I wouldn't want someone like Meadows to only play 400 innings if he can play over 900 innings in the minors.
those three also got a lot of at bats:
S-Rod 300, 342 pa
Joyce 231, 293 pa
Freese 437, 492
A back up outfielder might play the innings that Joyce and S-Rod did. I think the Bucs could do a lot better job in integrating their young players and save money by not having spending as much as they do on back ups.
These veteran bench players are not blocking any younger players. The younger players are starting and should be starting. The Pirates aren't paying those guys. Bell is probably the best starter and he is the lowest paid. There is no difference than paying him $5 million and a bench player minimum salary.
I wouldn't have wanted Bell sitting on the bench in 2016. That wouldn't have prepared him for 2017 and beyond. The bigger problem was that Jaso was the starter, not that Bell wasn't on the bench and they paid Rodriguez $1.9 million or Freese $3 million instead.
IMO, there is no need to have S-Rod or Freese on this roster. They will wind up taking at bats from Moran, Frazier, Luplow, and Moroff. That is stupid for this upcoming year.
All those guys you mentioned should be starting. They shouldn't be on the bench. Well, maybe Moroff. He might be a utility player in the long run. But I'd rather him playing every day in the minors than sit on the bench in Pittsburgh.
The problem is that Hurdle doesn't do starters. Everyone gets to play a lot. Everyone gets multiple starts a week. All of those guys should be getting at bats over Freese and SRod. As long as they are on the roster, Hurdle will play them (too much).
Jung Ho Kang
As much as hurdle uses the bench, why would it matter if the org guys like Moroff are the backups?
I'll take 250 ML ab over 400 AAA at bats all day long. (Moroff for example).
The cards always have young bench players who get looks once in a while and then slide right in when a starter goes down.
Better to do that than to call up some wide eyed kid to start when the injury occurs because you wanted him to "play everyday" against AAA scrubs instead of 3 days a week vs the best in the world.
It's a losing mentality and losing approach and losing strategy. See the cards
I'll take 250 ML ab over 400 AAA at bats all day long. (Moroff for example).
The cards always have young bench players who get looks once in a while and then slide right in when a starter goes down.
Better to do that than to call up some wide eyed kid to start when the injury occurs because you wanted him to "play everyday" against AAA scrubs instead of 3 days a week vs the best in the world.
It's a losing mentality and losing approach and losing strategy. See the cards
Jung Ho Kang
717870616F150 wrote: Kang is a tremendous defensive 3bman. Tremendous. Also, he's a good defensive 2nd baseman. Both of these are probably because he's naturally a shortstop, a position he can still fake it at, I'm sure. He's not going to forget how to play defense, surely that much is agreeable at least? Even if he is a .220 hitter with marginal power after getting rusty, he would be a great addition because he's got real upside if the rust can be kicked off. While he kicks of the rust, his defense plays. He's not valueless, even when not hitting.
To me, Kang has more upside in his big toe than about half of the roster does in their whole body. that's 3 million dollars we should be spending 100% of the time if the opportunity presents itself. I doubt it will, but I would consider it a very good break if it does.
We've got 12 million dollars wrapped up on Hudson and Srod. 5 million in Freese. That's 17 million dollars on backups with no real upside at all. We should definitely be OK to spend another 3 million on a guy who not long ago was a very, very good 3bman.
Instead when Daniel Nava makes the club, we'll probably spend it on him.
We LOVE spending what limited money we do use on ML payroll on veteran backups. Just love it. It's the dumbest strategy I've ever seen. This organization cannot complain about the current economic structure of MLB on one hand and then continue to spend the percentage of payroll (all important to NH!) they do on BACKUPS.
Use your farm for bench spots. Can you not even develop support players??
When they traded Cutch and Cole it pretty much signaled to me the BMTIB was ready to raise a white flag rather than a pennant. They have shown zero indication they will invest in higher tier talent acquisition.
I like both Freeze and SRod. They are both good players. However, their value is as reserves on good teams...not as starters on rebuilding teams. As starters they do little more than fill voids, stunt progress, and allow the FO to kick the can down the road.
I say play Moran, Luplow, and Moroff. And play Meadows when ready. Try Holmes, Brault, and Kingham in Pittsburgh ASAP. Let's see what these guys can produce.
Ideally, some will succeed and display a much higher ceiling than players like Jay and Freeze. Some will fail, and maybe we pull the plug on them. But at least we tried, and can say we didn't suppress talented internal prospects (at league minimum!!).
Guys like Jon Jay and Daniel Nava are good players too, but they serve little-to-no purpose on this team. If we aren't going to pursue the Christian Yelichs, let's play our prospects and see if they can become Yelichs. Don’t sign Jon Jays and hope they remain Jon Jays.
To me, Kang has more upside in his big toe than about half of the roster does in their whole body. that's 3 million dollars we should be spending 100% of the time if the opportunity presents itself. I doubt it will, but I would consider it a very good break if it does.
We've got 12 million dollars wrapped up on Hudson and Srod. 5 million in Freese. That's 17 million dollars on backups with no real upside at all. We should definitely be OK to spend another 3 million on a guy who not long ago was a very, very good 3bman.
Instead when Daniel Nava makes the club, we'll probably spend it on him.
We LOVE spending what limited money we do use on ML payroll on veteran backups. Just love it. It's the dumbest strategy I've ever seen. This organization cannot complain about the current economic structure of MLB on one hand and then continue to spend the percentage of payroll (all important to NH!) they do on BACKUPS.
Use your farm for bench spots. Can you not even develop support players??
When they traded Cutch and Cole it pretty much signaled to me the BMTIB was ready to raise a white flag rather than a pennant. They have shown zero indication they will invest in higher tier talent acquisition.
I like both Freeze and SRod. They are both good players. However, their value is as reserves on good teams...not as starters on rebuilding teams. As starters they do little more than fill voids, stunt progress, and allow the FO to kick the can down the road.
I say play Moran, Luplow, and Moroff. And play Meadows when ready. Try Holmes, Brault, and Kingham in Pittsburgh ASAP. Let's see what these guys can produce.
Ideally, some will succeed and display a much higher ceiling than players like Jay and Freeze. Some will fail, and maybe we pull the plug on them. But at least we tried, and can say we didn't suppress talented internal prospects (at league minimum!!).
Guys like Jon Jay and Daniel Nava are good players too, but they serve little-to-no purpose on this team. If we aren't going to pursue the Christian Yelichs, let's play our prospects and see if they can become Yelichs. Don’t sign Jon Jays and hope they remain Jon Jays.