Bucs make trade with Nats
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JollyRoger
- Posts: 1469
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:31 pm
Bucs make trade with Nats
Liriano was dominant tonight. 6 innings 0 runs & 10 K's
Bucs make trade with Nats
0818192E3838345B0 wrote: Guys # not too bad ...He can spend the next year in AAA .Then we see what we have . I like the trade . :-/
No harm no foul in my book.
Something in my gut tells me SROD has started to figure things out ala Joey Bats but at a later age ..I dont care how old he is ...If we can get 3 top years i will take it ...We let him go we might be missing 25 -35 Hr per year down the line . The guy has a nice swing. ::) and if we let him settle on a starting position WOW stuff may happen
But where does he fit?
I seriously doubt he will fit into the coveted financial flexibility so worshiped by this regime. At least I think that's how we fans are supposed to look at it. Hey, finish under .500? Who cares! Toronto has to pay Liriano. Whoopie!!! Everybody's happy!
Good chance that Toronto will be happy too. Possibly get a starter who does better than Hutchison has done with Blue Jays along with a couple prospects.
I'm sure Toronto considers it a win. Hutchinson is garbage. A bad Liriano might equal a decent Hutchinson. Toronto doesn't care about financial flexibility. Look at the $$$ they have shelled out the last few years. We got a lousy pitcher, but saved 13.5 million ... they got two prospects and someone better than Hutchinson.
SCBucco, you nailed it!
The one thing about it though, its hard to justify paying a #5 13.5 million or whatever he is owed next year in this time and age. Liriano has been an enigma for a while. He resurrected his career in Pittsburgh, but still was an enigma. You really don't know which one you get with each start. The one that can be masterful and strikeout 13 in seven innings, or the one that gets shelled in four. He isn't one that I would have faith to go deep in games.
Frankie was terrible this year after his first start. He really didn't seem to care this year in Pittsburgh. His body language told me everything I knew. Finding a dance partner to unload him narrowed the field. There are only so many that would even consider the notion of taking him.
He is 8-13 with a 4.88 ERA and a 1.50 WHIP right now, which includes a 2-2 mark and a 3.35 ERA and 1.19 WHIP in Toronto. That tells you how bad he was here.
Toronto didn't give up anything of consequence to get him ... added two prospects that could provide depth in the organization and all it did was essentially give up 13.5 million for next year. That is no big deal to a franchise that craves a play-off spot and a division title. If Liriano comes in and pitches like he is capable of, the trade is deemed a success. Because chances are Toronto gets to the play-offs.
really he had been a bargain in his other years with Pirates. this year was a disaster. The Pirates decided it was not worth the risk that he could rebound. From the outside there is not anyway to tell if that was the team being extremely risk adverse or if they were lucky to be able to move him at any price.
Also have to wonder about Nova because the Bucs think that getting him out of AL east automatically makes him a better pitcher and that Liriano being with Pirates for several years allowed NL hitters to figure out how to hit him. If that is accurate then it makes signing Nova for more than a short contract risky too. He could easily turn into another Liriano.
Switching gears, what happened to Pirate defense this year? At the beginning of the year I expected it to be a big plus. The idea of having outfielders play in more to stop balls from dropping in was one based upon team research. The shifts had seemed to work for the past couple of years. This season the team made lots of mental errors as well as physical errors.
No harm no foul in my book.
Something in my gut tells me SROD has started to figure things out ala Joey Bats but at a later age ..I dont care how old he is ...If we can get 3 top years i will take it ...We let him go we might be missing 25 -35 Hr per year down the line . The guy has a nice swing. ::) and if we let him settle on a starting position WOW stuff may happen
But where does he fit?
I seriously doubt he will fit into the coveted financial flexibility so worshiped by this regime. At least I think that's how we fans are supposed to look at it. Hey, finish under .500? Who cares! Toronto has to pay Liriano. Whoopie!!! Everybody's happy!
Good chance that Toronto will be happy too. Possibly get a starter who does better than Hutchison has done with Blue Jays along with a couple prospects.
I'm sure Toronto considers it a win. Hutchinson is garbage. A bad Liriano might equal a decent Hutchinson. Toronto doesn't care about financial flexibility. Look at the $$$ they have shelled out the last few years. We got a lousy pitcher, but saved 13.5 million ... they got two prospects and someone better than Hutchinson.
SCBucco, you nailed it!
The one thing about it though, its hard to justify paying a #5 13.5 million or whatever he is owed next year in this time and age. Liriano has been an enigma for a while. He resurrected his career in Pittsburgh, but still was an enigma. You really don't know which one you get with each start. The one that can be masterful and strikeout 13 in seven innings, or the one that gets shelled in four. He isn't one that I would have faith to go deep in games.
Frankie was terrible this year after his first start. He really didn't seem to care this year in Pittsburgh. His body language told me everything I knew. Finding a dance partner to unload him narrowed the field. There are only so many that would even consider the notion of taking him.
He is 8-13 with a 4.88 ERA and a 1.50 WHIP right now, which includes a 2-2 mark and a 3.35 ERA and 1.19 WHIP in Toronto. That tells you how bad he was here.
Toronto didn't give up anything of consequence to get him ... added two prospects that could provide depth in the organization and all it did was essentially give up 13.5 million for next year. That is no big deal to a franchise that craves a play-off spot and a division title. If Liriano comes in and pitches like he is capable of, the trade is deemed a success. Because chances are Toronto gets to the play-offs.
really he had been a bargain in his other years with Pirates. this year was a disaster. The Pirates decided it was not worth the risk that he could rebound. From the outside there is not anyway to tell if that was the team being extremely risk adverse or if they were lucky to be able to move him at any price.
Also have to wonder about Nova because the Bucs think that getting him out of AL east automatically makes him a better pitcher and that Liriano being with Pirates for several years allowed NL hitters to figure out how to hit him. If that is accurate then it makes signing Nova for more than a short contract risky too. He could easily turn into another Liriano.
Switching gears, what happened to Pirate defense this year? At the beginning of the year I expected it to be a big plus. The idea of having outfielders play in more to stop balls from dropping in was one based upon team research. The shifts had seemed to work for the past couple of years. This season the team made lots of mental errors as well as physical errors.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Bucs make trade with Nats
Moving McCutchen hurt him and the Pirates in my opinion. Another ball landed on the warning track again last night. The change probably hurt his routes too.
I really didn't understand this strategy. You are taking a fast outfielder and making them slower. It is easier to run in than it is to run back. How many line drives in did he catch? I hope there is a stat for that. To me, it seemed more balls landed over him than he caught shallow. I could be totally wrong. But a ball over his head was usually a double. A ball in front of him was usually a single. I didn't understand the strategy.
I really didn't understand this strategy. You are taking a fast outfielder and making them slower. It is easier to run in than it is to run back. How many line drives in did he catch? I hope there is a stat for that. To me, it seemed more balls landed over him than he caught shallow. I could be totally wrong. But a ball over his head was usually a double. A ball in front of him was usually a single. I didn't understand the strategy.
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Bobster21
Bucs make trade with Nats
5F545C5055544F0A0C7B425A5354541558543B0 wrote: Moving McCutchen hurt him and the Pirates in my opinion. Another ball landed on the warning track again last night. The change probably hurt his routes too.
I really didn't understand this strategy. You are taking a fast outfielder and making them slower. It is easier to run in than it is to run back. How many line drives in did he catch? I hope there is a stat for that. To me, it seemed more balls landed over him than he caught shallow. I could be totally wrong. But a ball over his head was usually a double. A ball in front of him was usually a single. I didn't understand the strategy.
The strategy was that by playing more shallow, the hits that used to drop in front of him would be caught for outs and that he had enough speed to go back and still catch the deep ones. But what we've seen on the bases and in the OF is that he has slowed down this year. Now he can't catch up to the deep balls he has to go back for.
I really didn't understand this strategy. You are taking a fast outfielder and making them slower. It is easier to run in than it is to run back. How many line drives in did he catch? I hope there is a stat for that. To me, it seemed more balls landed over him than he caught shallow. I could be totally wrong. But a ball over his head was usually a double. A ball in front of him was usually a single. I didn't understand the strategy.
The strategy was that by playing more shallow, the hits that used to drop in front of him would be caught for outs and that he had enough speed to go back and still catch the deep ones. But what we've seen on the bases and in the OF is that he has slowed down this year. Now he can't catch up to the deep balls he has to go back for.
Bucs make trade with Nats
6E4B48485D764B434156240 wrote: Liriano was dominant tonight. 6 innings 0 runs & 10 K's
Typical Frankie. Fact is, he isn't dependable in a playoff situation to me.
Typical Frankie. Fact is, he isn't dependable in a playoff situation to me.
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fjk090852-7
- Posts: 3488
- Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:52 pm
Bucs make trade with Nats
If I can remember Liriano did a good job for the Bucs in the 2013 Post Season. Toronto may want to use him in the League Series, but I doubt he is used in the World Series if the Jays get that far. The National League figured out that Liriano threw many pitches out of the zone in which players swung and missed. It seemed that this season players did not swing at those pitches and due to that, Liriano threw more pitches over the plate which got hit.