2123393F294C0 wrote: If Bell keeps hitting this year he might well fall into that "star" category.
yes, that would be great.
Vazquez is close too, its just that he is a reliever. Taillon and Williams might become close to star pitchers. I guess Marte is next based on performance so far in his career.
Pirates World Series Champions 2019, 2020 and 2021
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
Pirates World Series Champions 2019, 2020 and 2021
This is depressing. Thinking about what might have been. If someone is posting on this board, he/she is obviously a die-hard baseball fan. There are few things I would like to see more in my lifetime than a Pirates World Series win. Obviously, in the grand scheme of life, it's just baseball. It has no lasting historical consequence. That said, 2013 was a blast. Going on a late season run in 2014 was a blast. 2015 was awesome. And here we are four years later wondering if we'll ever experience that again as fans. I have to believe we will, otherwise, why come back at all? Who on earth is a Washington Generals fan? No one. So, there has to be hope, but when you look at what might have been...it's just depressing. The problem is that this team is hanging in no-man's land, literally the worst place to be, and they've been there, really, since 2015. Not bad enough to be out of contention before the first pitch is thrown, not good enough to really compete. Personally, I'd like to see them tear the whole thing down and start over if they aren't going to be serious. Trade Polanco, Marte, Vazquez. Build around Bell, Tucker, Reynolds, and Keller. Make 2024 your target year to compete. If you have to suffer through a couple of 100 loss seasons, fine, but have a light at the end of the tunnel. Right now, we're a drifting ship stuck in the middle of the ocean with no real destination in sight.
Pirates World Series Champions 2019, 2020 and 2021
In 2008 or so, after having suffered through what was then 15 years of so below a .500 record (a losing team), I likely would have been content (not happy, but content) with a winning record.
In 2013, this franchise demonstrated that it could again be a winner. Put the right veterans around a star player and make some savy trades, and all of a sudden the fans are coming out for more than fireworks, they are actually screaming and cheering and nearly all are participating in a black-out in a playoff game. That is what all fans crave and that should continue to be possible, even if the Pirates never approach the salary levels of teams like the Angels.
However, instead of real hope, we are fed a constant stream of placating garbage by all members of the management team, and no upgrades in talent. Brault was released - no, he is a starting pitcher the same week; Kingham is out of the rotation - well, my guess is he will be the replacement starter for Williams; and who do we bring up from AAA - Clay light me up Holmes, the Neverask man, and no control Feliz.
Pirate baseball has been one of the few outlets and passions I which I have indulged. I rarely ever see them play in person because of the cost to travel to Pittsburgh or elsewhere, and because Maine is a long drive from most areas with major league ball. That said, I have regularly and often happily invested my $200+/year in the MLB baseball package on DirecTV and dutifully watch way too many games on TV, often quite late at night. I am again starting to wonder what is wrong with me.
I love the Pirates and I (desperately) want to see them win. The team's owner, however, does not seem to share the same passion. He would rather try to squeeze a dime out of a nickel than truly investing in the team to win. I've got to believe that the GM wants to win, but he is charged by the owner with trying to squeeze a quarter out of a nickel and must rely upon signing players like Kang, Lyles, Cabrera, Liriano, and Chisenhall (I acknowledge that some of these have been successful), to fill vital roles on the team, even though what is really needed is more decent starting pitching, bullpen help and at least 2 good quality position players. The manager, Clint wake me up when it is time for the cliche interview, often frustrates me to no end. I am not a Clint fan.
I know that I won't stop watching, but the current state of the Bucs' ownership and management leads me to believe that I should stop. Perhaps some year some Pirate team will greatly overachieve and experience some real success, but the likelihood of such seems to be approaching my chances of winning the lottery. In short, we are not really competitive, but every once in a while a miracle may happen.
In 2013, this franchise demonstrated that it could again be a winner. Put the right veterans around a star player and make some savy trades, and all of a sudden the fans are coming out for more than fireworks, they are actually screaming and cheering and nearly all are participating in a black-out in a playoff game. That is what all fans crave and that should continue to be possible, even if the Pirates never approach the salary levels of teams like the Angels.
However, instead of real hope, we are fed a constant stream of placating garbage by all members of the management team, and no upgrades in talent. Brault was released - no, he is a starting pitcher the same week; Kingham is out of the rotation - well, my guess is he will be the replacement starter for Williams; and who do we bring up from AAA - Clay light me up Holmes, the Neverask man, and no control Feliz.
Pirate baseball has been one of the few outlets and passions I which I have indulged. I rarely ever see them play in person because of the cost to travel to Pittsburgh or elsewhere, and because Maine is a long drive from most areas with major league ball. That said, I have regularly and often happily invested my $200+/year in the MLB baseball package on DirecTV and dutifully watch way too many games on TV, often quite late at night. I am again starting to wonder what is wrong with me.
I love the Pirates and I (desperately) want to see them win. The team's owner, however, does not seem to share the same passion. He would rather try to squeeze a dime out of a nickel than truly investing in the team to win. I've got to believe that the GM wants to win, but he is charged by the owner with trying to squeeze a quarter out of a nickel and must rely upon signing players like Kang, Lyles, Cabrera, Liriano, and Chisenhall (I acknowledge that some of these have been successful), to fill vital roles on the team, even though what is really needed is more decent starting pitching, bullpen help and at least 2 good quality position players. The manager, Clint wake me up when it is time for the cliche interview, often frustrates me to no end. I am not a Clint fan.
I know that I won't stop watching, but the current state of the Bucs' ownership and management leads me to believe that I should stop. Perhaps some year some Pirate team will greatly overachieve and experience some real success, but the likelihood of such seems to be approaching my chances of winning the lottery. In short, we are not really competitive, but every once in a while a miracle may happen.
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Bobster21
Pirates World Series Champions 2019, 2020 and 2021
I feel the same way MaineBucs. I enjoyed 2013-2015 and was fooled into thinking it was a beginning instead of the end it turned out to be. I'll always be a diehard Pirate fan but it's so frustrating to realize what that entails. And the most frustrating thing to me is that we now know this mgt team ceased their efforts to build a winner. I'm sure TBMTIB loved what was happening in those 3 years. The 98 win season of 2015 corresponded with a raise in payroll from the previous year and the closest the Pirates had gotten to the average MLB payroll.
And then Nutting and NH pulled the plug. The 2016 opening day payroll was reduced from 2015 due to personnel moves that were laughable. They didn't want to resign Happ so they acquired 38 year old, over the hill Vogelsong to replace him. And Vogelsong (not surprisingly) couldn't even beat out Juan Nicasio for the starting job in ST. Everyone knew they needed to upgrade at 1B over Alvarez, who couldn't throw or catch or hit above .240. Their choice was utility journeyman John Jaso, who was inexperienced at 1B, didn't hit for power or average, but was able to draw enough walks to boost his OBP. And they didn't want to pay a productive Neil Walker to stay so they traded him for the mediocre Jon Niese who was still under contract for less than what Walker would have cost.
The outstanding 2015 team was only 25th in payroll. But it became very obvious that the priority for 2016 was to avoid a payroll increase. The opening day payroll for 2016 was 3 million less than 2015 and again ranked 25th. The personnel moves that made that possible were pathetic and clearly not made for the purpose of improving the team. So a 98 win team was transformed into a 78 win team. The mgt team we counted on to make the Pirates successful changed their minds and derailed their efforts in order to save money. And that same mgt team is still there, which ruins any hopes that they can get back to being successful. They simply aren't interested in that unless it can magically be done on a shoestring budget. Last year they were satisfied much of the season to get by with only 2 legit outfielders. This year they saved a lot of money by leaving the starting rotation pencil thin, being satisfied to trade for a light hitting utility guy to play SS and hoping Kang could be better than Moran at 3B after being out of baseball nearly 2 years. The 2019 opening day payroll is about 30 million less than it was in 2015 and the total payroll is 22 million less. They are 27th in spending right now and are 23 million under the 24th ranked team. So there was plenty of room on the payroll to add players without even coming anywhere near the MLB average.
But as fans, all we get to enjoy are individual efforts. Bell is fun to watch this year (as long as he's not throwing the ball). Vazquez is fun to watch. Some of the starters pitched well when they weren't injured. But a team effort to compete for a post season spot? Forget it. TBMTIB isn't going to provide that. They haven't even tried. It costs more than they like to spend.
And then Nutting and NH pulled the plug. The 2016 opening day payroll was reduced from 2015 due to personnel moves that were laughable. They didn't want to resign Happ so they acquired 38 year old, over the hill Vogelsong to replace him. And Vogelsong (not surprisingly) couldn't even beat out Juan Nicasio for the starting job in ST. Everyone knew they needed to upgrade at 1B over Alvarez, who couldn't throw or catch or hit above .240. Their choice was utility journeyman John Jaso, who was inexperienced at 1B, didn't hit for power or average, but was able to draw enough walks to boost his OBP. And they didn't want to pay a productive Neil Walker to stay so they traded him for the mediocre Jon Niese who was still under contract for less than what Walker would have cost.
The outstanding 2015 team was only 25th in payroll. But it became very obvious that the priority for 2016 was to avoid a payroll increase. The opening day payroll for 2016 was 3 million less than 2015 and again ranked 25th. The personnel moves that made that possible were pathetic and clearly not made for the purpose of improving the team. So a 98 win team was transformed into a 78 win team. The mgt team we counted on to make the Pirates successful changed their minds and derailed their efforts in order to save money. And that same mgt team is still there, which ruins any hopes that they can get back to being successful. They simply aren't interested in that unless it can magically be done on a shoestring budget. Last year they were satisfied much of the season to get by with only 2 legit outfielders. This year they saved a lot of money by leaving the starting rotation pencil thin, being satisfied to trade for a light hitting utility guy to play SS and hoping Kang could be better than Moran at 3B after being out of baseball nearly 2 years. The 2019 opening day payroll is about 30 million less than it was in 2015 and the total payroll is 22 million less. They are 27th in spending right now and are 23 million under the 24th ranked team. So there was plenty of room on the payroll to add players without even coming anywhere near the MLB average.
But as fans, all we get to enjoy are individual efforts. Bell is fun to watch this year (as long as he's not throwing the ball). Vazquez is fun to watch. Some of the starters pitched well when they weren't injured. But a team effort to compete for a post season spot? Forget it. TBMTIB isn't going to provide that. They haven't even tried. It costs more than they like to spend.
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rucker59@gmail.com
Pirates World Series Champions 2019, 2020 and 2021
All of this is true, yet....
Marte and Polanco absolutely killed what could have been a promising future. Marte in particular. What gets me is that the FO didn’t have enough smarts to see what they actually have in those two.
They moved Meadows and Glasnow in a realitive heart beat. Marte and Polanco report to CF and RF for years with very marginal results.
Those four players and how they were handled (plus Kang) seriously damaged this franchise. Used well and maybe we have a WS team. If Neal is going to have Nutting for an owner, than Neal has to do his job exceptionally well. He flat out missed with those critical pieces for the Pirates’ 2019, 2020 and 2021 World Champs.
Marte and Polanco absolutely killed what could have been a promising future. Marte in particular. What gets me is that the FO didn’t have enough smarts to see what they actually have in those two.
They moved Meadows and Glasnow in a realitive heart beat. Marte and Polanco report to CF and RF for years with very marginal results.
Those four players and how they were handled (plus Kang) seriously damaged this franchise. Used well and maybe we have a WS team. If Neal is going to have Nutting for an owner, than Neal has to do his job exceptionally well. He flat out missed with those critical pieces for the Pirates’ 2019, 2020 and 2021 World Champs.
Pirates World Series Champions 2019, 2020 and 2021
Meadows just hit a home run in the top of the 11th to put the Rays up 2 -1 over the Yankees.
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rucker59@gmail.com
Pirates World Series Champions 2019, 2020 and 2021
76746E687E1B0 wrote: Meadows just hit a home run in the top of the 11th to put the Rays up 2 -1 over the Yankees.
This just hurts:
AB AVG HR RBI SB OPS
98 .347 9 23 4 1.117
This just hurts:
AB AVG HR RBI SB OPS
98 .347 9 23 4 1.117
Pirates World Series Champions 2019, 2020 and 2021
Of the 3 we gave up for Archer...I did not want Meadows to leave. I thought he was our LF for the foreseeable future. Hope Reynolds is that guy now, once Dickerson leaves.