Impact Rookies

dogknot17@yahoo.co · Post by **dogknot17@yahoo.co** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:59 pm

I wish the pirates had an impact rookie to come up or start the season and just dominate. Have they ever had this type of player*?

McCutchen is great, but still took him four years to dominate. Yet, other teams get that impact rookie right away. Meadows will take time too. Guys have been decent, but not that MVP right away.

Look at the 2103 draft. Bryant, Judge and Bellinger were all in that draft. Bryant was ROY and MVP in his second year. Judge is considered a rookie this year and is the leading MVP candidate. Bellinger has more HRs than anyone in the history of baseball (history) in their first 50 games.

The Pirates could have had Judge (32nd overall) and Bellinger (4th rounder) and even had two first round picks that year.

Not to single out that draft or Meadows, but overall the Pirates never seem to get lucky to get that player. I would love to get that impact rookie.

*Jason Bay had some fine seasons, but not compared to these guys.

Bobster21 · Post by **Bobster21** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:19 pm

Bay was ROY in 2004.

A long time ago, Rich Hebner, Al Oliver, Manny Sanguillen and Richie Zisk all had impact seasons as rookies.

SammyKhalifa · Post by **SammyKhalifa** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:31 pm

I wonder if we'd view Bay differently if he were on a good team. His numbers would probably have been better too.

Quail · Post by **Quail** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:33 pm

John Candelaria was another who was a dominant rookie.

dogknot17@yahoo.co · Post by **dogknot17@yahoo.co** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:47 pm

I don't know the older guys. Did they carry the team? Were they the threat in the line up or put the team over the top.

Bay was similar to Bryant as a rookie. But then Bryant went on to be the MVP his second year. Maybe because the 2004 Pirates were so bad that Bay is overlooked? His impact didn't matter.

To put his season in perspective:

Bay: .282 ave, 26 HR, 82 RBI, .907 ops in 411 at bats

Judge: .331 ave, 25 HR, 57 RBI, 1.141 ops in 248 at bats

Bellinger: .272 ave, 22 HR, 49 RBI, 1.009 ops in 203 at bats

Tim Wakefield made an impact for a winning team. I was more looking at hitters.

johnfluharty · Post by **johnfluharty** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:05 pm

Jason Kendall had a pretty impactful rookie year. I remember he and Keith Osik were both rookies and both had very good years. I wonder how often a team has gone a whole season with a pair of rookie catchers like that.

dogknot17@yahoo.co · Post by **dogknot17@yahoo.co** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:42 pm

2E2B2C2A2228312C2536303D440 wrote: Jason Kendall had a pretty impactful rookie year. I remember he and Keith Osik were both rookies and both had very good years. I wonder how often a team has gone a whole season with a pair of rookie catchers like that.

Kendall and Osik had a combined 4 HR and a .780 ops. Judge and Bellinger already have more RBI than Kendall had for a whole season.

I am talking impact, impact. Not just fine years.

SammyKhalifa · Post by **SammyKhalifa** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:49 pm

212A222E2B2A317472053C242D2A2A6B262A450 wrote: Jason Kendall had a pretty impactful rookie year. I remember he and Keith Osik were both rookies and both had very good years. I wonder how often a team has gone a whole season with a pair of rookie catchers like that.

Kendall and Osik had a combined 4 HR and a .780 ops. Judge and Bellinger already have more RBI than Kendall had for a whole season.

I am talking impact, impact. Not just fine years.

This is an extremely explosive home run season all across the board though (except here).

johnfluharty · Post by **johnfluharty** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:45 pm

4A41494540415A1F196E574F464141004D412E0 wrote: Jason Kendall had a pretty impactful rookie year. I remember he and Keith Osik were both rookies and both had very good years. I wonder how often a team has gone a whole season with a pair of rookie catchers like that.

Kendall and Osik had a combined 4 HR and a .780 ops. Judge and Bellinger already have more RBI than Kendall had for a whole season.

I am talking impact, impact. Not just fine years.

Home runs is not the same thing as impact. If they are up across the board then hitting them means less in relative terms. if you are talking rookie home runs then maybe just say that instead of 'impact'. A pitcher can have a big impact on the team. Kendall's rookie year was more than just a fine year. He was dynamic, a game-changer. Good defense, quick, could hit almost anything. You can't say he was not an impact player. Home runs? No, but that's not the same as 'impact'.

Bobster21 · Post by **Bobster21** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:58 pm

7E757D7174756E2B2D5A637B7275753479751A0 wrote: I don't know the older guys. Did they carry the team? Were they the threat in the line up or put the team over the top.

1969 was an expansion year and the Pirates lost several veterans (including Clendenon, Wills, Mota) in that draft because they had a strong group of rookies. Rookie Al Oliver (.285/.333/.445, 17 HRs, 70 RBIs) took over 1B. Rookie Rich Hebner (.301/.380/.420, 8 HRs, 47 RBIs) took over 3B. Rookie Manny Sanguillen (.303/.324/.407, 5 HRs, 57 RBIs) caught. Bucs went 88-74 and finished 3rd. The lineup usually had Hebner hitting 2nd, Oliver 5th or 6th and Sanguillen 6th or 5th. That team led NL in team BA (.277), OBP (.335) and SLG (.422) and was 2nd in NL in runs and hits. A really outstanding crop of rookies. Hebner and Oliver were arguably the top 2 NL rookies but LA's Ted Sizemore got all the hype and was ROY despite inferior stats (.271/.328/.342, 4 HRs, 46 RBIs).

In 1973 following Clemente's death, Sanguillen began season in RF but had problems defensively. So he went back behind the plate and rookie Richie Zisk took over RF at midseason hitting .324/.364/.526, 10 HRs, 54 RBIs. He usually batted 5th behind Stargell and provided good protection.