I would bet Archer will never out pitch Glasnow going forward. Sounds like we pulled the trigger just when he might be breaking through ? I hated this from day one and continue to hate it. Makes no sense unless we had a chance to win the WS THIS year. Reason I say that , if you really looked at it , there was a chance that both Glasnow and Meadows could be worth more than Archer in 2019.
IMO, this was done to please the fan base and attempt to bring them back to the ball park. If the fans return , it will not be due to this trade but instead a few prospects developing big time. The first trade was fine but this one really smelled like bad feet.
Here's something on Glasnow from fan graphs .
https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/tyler-g ... g-strides/
Glasnow VS Archer
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
Glasnow VS Archer
2D2A3B283B6A675E0 wrote: I would bet Archer will never out pitch Glasnow going forward. Sounds like we pulled the trigger just when he might be breaking through ? I hated this from day one and continue to hate it. Makes no sense unless we had a chance to win the WS THIS year. Reason I say that , if you really looked at it , there was a chance that both Glasnow and Meadows could be worth more than Archer in 2019.
IMO, this was done to please the fan base and attempt to bring them back to the ball park. If the fans return , it will not be due to this trade but instead a few prospects developing big time. The first trade was fine but this one really smelled like bad feet.
Here's something on Glasnow from fan graphs .
https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/tyler-g ... g-strides/
if the Bucs mis-evaluated Archer, Glasnow and Meadows then heads need to roll.
IMO, this was done to please the fan base and attempt to bring them back to the ball park. If the fans return , it will not be due to this trade but instead a few prospects developing big time. The first trade was fine but this one really smelled like bad feet.
Here's something on Glasnow from fan graphs .
https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/tyler-g ... g-strides/
if the Bucs mis-evaluated Archer, Glasnow and Meadows then heads need to roll.
-
maher.timothy20@gm
Glasnow VS Archer
I've said before, I was fine with Glasnow starting the year in the bullpen. Seemed to make perfect sense given his emotional makeup. But I assumed he'd been in the rotation by June. I kept waiting, never happened.
That's what pisses me off. We didn't give him a chance to start this year to see what we had.
That's what pisses me off. We didn't give him a chance to start this year to see what we had.
Glasnow VS Archer
Wait a second. This board has been clamoring for YEARS that we should make bold moves, like trading prospects for REAL major league talent. This board had completely soured on Glasnow for good reason - he looked like a scared middle school girl every time he took the mound. This board almost universally praised the trade when it happened (although admittedly some of the excitement dimmed when Baz was the PTBNL, but even then, most recognized that he's far off from even pitching in the majors).
And now after a few starts, this board (or at least some portion of it) thinks that NH should be fired because of the trade?
Hey, I don't know how this trade will work out. Archer could blow out his arm tomorrow, or just be ineffective for the rest of his MLB career; and Glasnow and Meadows could become Hall of Fame players. But that will not change the fact that I agreed with the trade when it happened. And most of this board did, too.
Let's try not to talk out of both sides of our mouth too much.
And now after a few starts, this board (or at least some portion of it) thinks that NH should be fired because of the trade?
Hey, I don't know how this trade will work out. Archer could blow out his arm tomorrow, or just be ineffective for the rest of his MLB career; and Glasnow and Meadows could become Hall of Fame players. But that will not change the fact that I agreed with the trade when it happened. And most of this board did, too.
Let's try not to talk out of both sides of our mouth too much.
-
DemDog
Glasnow VS Archer
464C435E4C5E4B4C432D0 wrote: Wait a second. This board has been clamoring for YEARS that we should make bold moves, like trading prospects for REAL major league talent. This board had completely soured on Glasnow for good reason - he looked like a scared middle school girl every time he took the mound. This board almost universally praised the trade when it happened (although admittedly some of the excitement dimmed when Baz was the PTBNL, but even then, most recognized that he's far off from even pitching in the majors).
And now after a few starts, this board (or at least some portion of it) thinks that NH should be fired because of the trade?
Hey, I don't know how this trade will work out. Archer could blow out his arm tomorrow, or just be ineffective for the rest of his MLB career; and Glasnow and Meadows could become Hall of Fame players. But that will not change the fact that I agreed with the trade when it happened. And most of this board did, too.
Let's try not to talk out of both sides of our mouth too much.
I agree with you kansas. Even though we sound like apologists for NH and Nutting what you say is the truth. Fans and posters on OBN have been clamoring for years to trade some of the big prospects for someone who will put us over the top. So NH goes out and does it. It is not NH fault that the team goes in the crapper right after the deal is made and Archer does not live up to his hype. It is way too early to judge this trade after less than a month.
And now after a few starts, this board (or at least some portion of it) thinks that NH should be fired because of the trade?
Hey, I don't know how this trade will work out. Archer could blow out his arm tomorrow, or just be ineffective for the rest of his MLB career; and Glasnow and Meadows could become Hall of Fame players. But that will not change the fact that I agreed with the trade when it happened. And most of this board did, too.
Let's try not to talk out of both sides of our mouth too much.
I agree with you kansas. Even though we sound like apologists for NH and Nutting what you say is the truth. Fans and posters on OBN have been clamoring for years to trade some of the big prospects for someone who will put us over the top. So NH goes out and does it. It is not NH fault that the team goes in the crapper right after the deal is made and Archer does not live up to his hype. It is way too early to judge this trade after less than a month.
-
steve49
Glasnow VS Archer
464C435E4C5E4B4C432D0 wrote: Wait a second. This board has been clamoring for YEARS that we should make bold moves, like trading prospects for REAL major league talent. This board had completely soured on Glasnow for good reason - he looked like a scared middle school girl every time he took the mound. This board almost universally praised the trade when it happened (although admittedly some of the excitement dimmed when Baz was the PTBNL, but even then, most recognized that he's far off from even pitching in the majors).
And now after a few starts, this board (or at least some portion of it) thinks that NH should be fired because of the trade?
Hey, I don't know how this trade will work out. Archer could blow out his arm tomorrow, or just be ineffective for the rest of his MLB career; and Glasnow and Meadows could become Hall of Fame players. But that will not change the fact that I agreed with the trade when it happened. And most of this board did, too.
Let's try not to talk out of both sides of our mouth too much.
Archer won't need to blow his arm out for this to be a bad trade. Bottom line is Pirates gave up way too much for a guy that hasn't been special for 3 years now.
As to "talking out out of both sides of our mouths", i have never said I liked this trade when it happened . I have never totally soured on Glasnow and wanted him traded. I have never advocated trading our best prospects for someone like this. If I felt we were a pitcher and a RP away from getting to the WS , I might have felt differently.
So unless you find something that I said to back up your claims , I and I believe many others did not say or think as you claim. Taking a step further , why can't I post something like this and not be called out for it ? What does the majority of the boards thoughts have to do with me being pissed at this trade as it unravels ? If I was like you and liked the move when it happened . yes I shouldn't post like I did .
And now after a few starts, this board (or at least some portion of it) thinks that NH should be fired because of the trade?
Hey, I don't know how this trade will work out. Archer could blow out his arm tomorrow, or just be ineffective for the rest of his MLB career; and Glasnow and Meadows could become Hall of Fame players. But that will not change the fact that I agreed with the trade when it happened. And most of this board did, too.
Let's try not to talk out of both sides of our mouth too much.
Archer won't need to blow his arm out for this to be a bad trade. Bottom line is Pirates gave up way too much for a guy that hasn't been special for 3 years now.
As to "talking out out of both sides of our mouths", i have never said I liked this trade when it happened . I have never totally soured on Glasnow and wanted him traded. I have never advocated trading our best prospects for someone like this. If I felt we were a pitcher and a RP away from getting to the WS , I might have felt differently.
So unless you find something that I said to back up your claims , I and I believe many others did not say or think as you claim. Taking a step further , why can't I post something like this and not be called out for it ? What does the majority of the boards thoughts have to do with me being pissed at this trade as it unravels ? If I was like you and liked the move when it happened . yes I shouldn't post like I did .
Glasnow VS Archer
It's way to soon. You do realize over Glasnow's last 2 starts that cover 11.2 innings he has given up 8 runs, 8 hits and 6 walks? He could become a good pitcher but it seems that some of the old issues are still there. I understand Archer has been very bad so far, but he does have talent. Lets see what happens.
-
Bobster21
Glasnow VS Archer
35342F3E28686F5B0 wrote: It's way to soon. You do realize over Glasnow's last 2 starts that cover 11.2 innings he has given up 8 runs, 8 hits and 6 walks? He could become a good pitcher but it seems that some of the old issues are still there. I understand Archer has been very bad so far, but he does have talent. Lets see what happens.
Yes, Glasnow's last 2 games have not been too impressive. And teams are stealing bases on him like crazy. The jury is certainly still out on him. I was not against trading him. I was not against the trade altho subsequently including Baz was distressing. I think it showed that Glasnow didn't have great value to TB and they wanted another significant prospect besides Meadows.
Hopefully, Archer can turn it around and be an asset the next 3 years. If not, then I would question TBMTIB's due diligence. As fans, we aren't experts on Archer but he has a reputation is a very good pitcher. If he isn't the pitcher we thought he was, then the Pirates should have done their homework before making the deal. But Archer has been too good to suddenly be this bad. His worst ERA in the DH-laden A.L. was 4.07, and he had 3 years between 3.22 and 3.33. Until this year he's always had substantially fewer hits than IP. And yet with the Bucs he's got a WHIP of 1.746. This season is a wash anyway. Hopefully by next season he will resemble the guy they thought they were getting.
Yes, Glasnow's last 2 games have not been too impressive. And teams are stealing bases on him like crazy. The jury is certainly still out on him. I was not against trading him. I was not against the trade altho subsequently including Baz was distressing. I think it showed that Glasnow didn't have great value to TB and they wanted another significant prospect besides Meadows.
Hopefully, Archer can turn it around and be an asset the next 3 years. If not, then I would question TBMTIB's due diligence. As fans, we aren't experts on Archer but he has a reputation is a very good pitcher. If he isn't the pitcher we thought he was, then the Pirates should have done their homework before making the deal. But Archer has been too good to suddenly be this bad. His worst ERA in the DH-laden A.L. was 4.07, and he had 3 years between 3.22 and 3.33. Until this year he's always had substantially fewer hits than IP. And yet with the Bucs he's got a WHIP of 1.746. This season is a wash anyway. Hopefully by next season he will resemble the guy they thought they were getting.
-
steve49
Glasnow VS Archer
2D2C3726307077430 wrote: It's way to soon. You do realize over Glasnow's last 2 starts that cover 11.2 innings he has given up 8 runs, 8 hits and 6 walks? He could become a good pitcher but it seems that some of the old issues are still there. I understand Archer has been very bad so far, but he does have talent. Lets see what happens.
I'm going by what I see. He's getting tons of swings and misses . He overpowers batters with his FB and is showing a nasty breaking ball. On the reverse side of that is he can't hold runners on and I'm not sure he is mentally tough. But yeah , he's no sure thing. All I'm doing is calling this trade out as unbalanced . Just going on record and that's what boards are for.Some here want to be right .. even if this turns out to be a disaster. You can't just say they needed to to this because that's what the board wanted. It's pretty silly. The issue is was it a good trade or a bad trade.. not what % of this board wanted it or liked it.
BTW.. Gland came within a foot a giving up a grand slam in his last start. It was a flash back to the old Glasnow .. implosion. But the ball was caught at the wall and he dominated for the next 3 innings.
I'm going by what I see. He's getting tons of swings and misses . He overpowers batters with his FB and is showing a nasty breaking ball. On the reverse side of that is he can't hold runners on and I'm not sure he is mentally tough. But yeah , he's no sure thing. All I'm doing is calling this trade out as unbalanced . Just going on record and that's what boards are for.Some here want to be right .. even if this turns out to be a disaster. You can't just say they needed to to this because that's what the board wanted. It's pretty silly. The issue is was it a good trade or a bad trade.. not what % of this board wanted it or liked it.
BTW.. Gland came within a foot a giving up a grand slam in his last start. It was a flash back to the old Glasnow .. implosion. But the ball was caught at the wall and he dominated for the next 3 innings.
-
steve49
Glasnow VS Archer
0E232E3F38293E7E7D4C0 wrote: It's way to soon. You do realize over Glasnow's last 2 starts that cover 11.2 innings he has given up 8 runs, 8 hits and 6 walks? He could become a good pitcher but it seems that some of the old issues are still there. I understand Archer has been very bad so far, but he does have talent. Lets see what happens.
Yes, Glasnow's last 2 games have not been too impressive. And teams are stealing bases on him like crazy. The jury is certainly still out on him. I was not against trading him. I was not against the trade altho subsequently including Baz was distressing. I think it showed that Glasnow didn't have great value to TB and they wanted another significant prospect besides Meadows.
Hopefully, Archer can turn it around and be an asset the next 3 years. If not, then I would question TBMTIB's due diligence. As fans, we aren't experts on Archer but he has a reputation is a very good pitcher. If he isn't the pitcher we thought he was, then the Pirates should have done their homework before making the deal. But Archer has been too good to suddenly be this bad. His worst ERA in the DH-laden A.L. was 4.07, and he had 3 years between 3.22 and 3.33. Until this year he's always had substantially fewer hits than IP. And yet with the Bucs he's got a WHIP of 1.746. This season is a wash anyway. Hopefully by next season he will resemble the guy they thought they were getting.
From what I've read TB has wanted Glasnow for some time now. They thought he very likely would to a top pitcher . Unlike the Pirates , TB advocates the high FB and not the low FB to induce contact. This fits Glasnow's stuff very well.As for Baez , I think it was a question of Huntington being outwitted more than TB not coveting Glasnow. But like you , I can only go by what I read as we'll never know if TB would have taken less than Baz. Christ... we don't even know how much TB even really like Archer.
Yes, Glasnow's last 2 games have not been too impressive. And teams are stealing bases on him like crazy. The jury is certainly still out on him. I was not against trading him. I was not against the trade altho subsequently including Baz was distressing. I think it showed that Glasnow didn't have great value to TB and they wanted another significant prospect besides Meadows.
Hopefully, Archer can turn it around and be an asset the next 3 years. If not, then I would question TBMTIB's due diligence. As fans, we aren't experts on Archer but he has a reputation is a very good pitcher. If he isn't the pitcher we thought he was, then the Pirates should have done their homework before making the deal. But Archer has been too good to suddenly be this bad. His worst ERA in the DH-laden A.L. was 4.07, and he had 3 years between 3.22 and 3.33. Until this year he's always had substantially fewer hits than IP. And yet with the Bucs he's got a WHIP of 1.746. This season is a wash anyway. Hopefully by next season he will resemble the guy they thought they were getting.
From what I've read TB has wanted Glasnow for some time now. They thought he very likely would to a top pitcher . Unlike the Pirates , TB advocates the high FB and not the low FB to induce contact. This fits Glasnow's stuff very well.As for Baez , I think it was a question of Huntington being outwitted more than TB not coveting Glasnow. But like you , I can only go by what I read as we'll never know if TB would have taken less than Baz. Christ... we don't even know how much TB even really like Archer.