6D4B4C59505C4B5D553E0 wrote: Two HOF players wearing the same number. Vaughan is a HOF player I don't hear talked about much in Bucs lore. I wonder if it's because he didn't play in a WS for the Bucs, and didn't have the nice round numbers like 3,000 hits. Looking at his stats, he was quite an all around player. Led the league at least once in walks, triples, OBP, slugging, OPS, stolen bases (with the Dodgers), runs, batting average. His 78 WAR is 70th all time in MLB. He was selected to the HOF by the Veteran's Committee in 1985. He barely cracked the balloting his first year of eligibility, with 0.4%, a number which would get you removed today. His best balloting number was his final year in 1968, only getting 29% of the vote. Three times his vote total went DOWN from the previous year vote.
Once again, we see a discrepancy between baseball almanac and baseball reference, as BA does not list Vaughan having worn number 3 or 5, but BR does. BA shows Vaughan to have worn 21 for 1940 and 1941, the years that BR has him having worn 3 and 5.
All in all, it's odd. He didn't play for bad teams, in his years with the Pirates, 1932-1941, they had only two losing seasons and finished second three times and third once. He had an All Star season as a Dodger towards the end of his career.
Glad I got the chance to get familiar with him.
My dad used to tell me about how good he was. As you mentioned, he won a batting title. An interesting note is that only three shortstops won National League batting titles in the 20th Century, all Pirates (Wagner, Vaughn, and Groat).
52 days till first Spring Training game
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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Bobster21
52 days till first Spring Training game
2274627679637378756250777D71797C3E73100 wrote: Two HOF players wearing the same number. Vaughan is a HOF player I don't hear talked about much in Bucs lore. I wonder if it's because he didn't play in a WS for the Bucs, and didn't have the nice round numbers like 3,000 hits. Looking at his stats, he was quite an all around player. Led the league at least once in walks, triples, OBP, slugging, OPS, stolen bases (with the Dodgers), runs, batting average. His 78 WAR is 70th all time in MLB. He was selected to the HOF by the Veteran's Committee in 1985. He barely cracked the balloting his first year of eligibility, with 0.4%, a number which would get you removed today. His best balloting number was his final year in 1968, only getting 29% of the vote. Three times his vote total went DOWN from the previous year vote.
Once again, we see a discrepancy between baseball almanac and baseball reference, as BA does not list Vaughan having worn number 3 or 5, but BR does. BA shows Vaughan to have worn 21 for 1940 and 1941, the years that BR has him having worn 3 and 5.
All in all, it's odd. He didn't play for bad teams, in his years with the Pirates, 1932-1941, they had only two losing seasons and finished second three times and third once. He had an All Star season as a Dodger towards the end of his career.
Glad I got the chance to get familiar with him.
My dad used to tell me about how good he was. As you mentioned, he won a batting title. An interesting note is that only three shortstops won National League batting titles in the 20th Century, all Pirates (Wagner, Vaughn, and Groat).
Same here. My father always told me what a great player Vaughan was. Because of that, I knew that from my earliest days as a Pirate fan.
Once again, we see a discrepancy between baseball almanac and baseball reference, as BA does not list Vaughan having worn number 3 or 5, but BR does. BA shows Vaughan to have worn 21 for 1940 and 1941, the years that BR has him having worn 3 and 5.
All in all, it's odd. He didn't play for bad teams, in his years with the Pirates, 1932-1941, they had only two losing seasons and finished second three times and third once. He had an All Star season as a Dodger towards the end of his career.
Glad I got the chance to get familiar with him.
My dad used to tell me about how good he was. As you mentioned, he won a batting title. An interesting note is that only three shortstops won National League batting titles in the 20th Century, all Pirates (Wagner, Vaughn, and Groat).
Same here. My father always told me what a great player Vaughan was. Because of that, I knew that from my earliest days as a Pirate fan.
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ArnoldRothstein
52 days till first Spring Training game
Vaughan retired at 31 after a clubhouse dispute with Leo Durocher, came back as a bench player four years later, for just a couple of years. He died about five years after his career finally ended. So his career totals are a little short, and then he fell out of the public eye.
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Bobster21
52 days till first Spring Training game
04372B2A2921172A312D3631202C2B450 wrote: Vaughan retired at 31 after a clubhouse dispute with Leo Durocher, came back as a bench player four years later, for just a couple of years. He died about five years after his career finally ended. So his career totals are a little short, and then he fell out of the public eye.
Vaughan drowned in 1952 when his fishing boat capsized.
Vaughan drowned in 1952 when his fishing boat capsized.
52 days till first Spring Training game
20 days until the first Spring Training game. Here are the illustrious Pirates who have worn number 20:
Pie Traynor, Lee Handley, Bob Klinger, Ray Starr, Boom-Boom Beck, Ken Heintzelman, Hal Gregg, Vern Law, Ron Kline, Paul Pettit, Sam Jethroe, Jim Mangan, Bill Bell, Red Swanson, Red Munger, Hank Foiles, Hardy Peterson, Gino Cimoli, Walt Moryn, Elmo Plaskett, John Gelnar, Frank Carpin, Jesse Gonder, Al Luplow, Richie Hebner.
Best player to wear number 20: Pie Traynor. Honorable mention: Richie Hebner.
Pie Traynor, Lee Handley, Bob Klinger, Ray Starr, Boom-Boom Beck, Ken Heintzelman, Hal Gregg, Vern Law, Ron Kline, Paul Pettit, Sam Jethroe, Jim Mangan, Bill Bell, Red Swanson, Red Munger, Hank Foiles, Hardy Peterson, Gino Cimoli, Walt Moryn, Elmo Plaskett, John Gelnar, Frank Carpin, Jesse Gonder, Al Luplow, Richie Hebner.
Best player to wear number 20: Pie Traynor. Honorable mention: Richie Hebner.
52 days till first Spring Training game
Number 20 was retired in 1972 in honor of Traynor, who died March 16th, 1972. IDK if he knew he was going to be honored this way or not. Traynor was also the Pirates manager from 1934-1939, and inducted into the HOF in 1948.
Traynor's number is actually the first number retired by the Pirates for a player.
Hebner wore number 20 for his first 4 seasons with the Bucs before the number was retired.
Traynor's number is actually the first number retired by the Pirates for a player.
Hebner wore number 20 for his first 4 seasons with the Bucs before the number was retired.
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2drfischer@gmail.c
52 days till first Spring Training game
436562777E7265737B100 wrote: 20 days until the first Spring Training game. Here are the illustrious Pirates who have worn number 20:
Pie Traynor, Lee Handley, Bob Klinger, Ray Starr, Boom-Boom Beck, Ken Heintzelman, Hal Gregg, Vern Law, Ron Kline, Paul Pettit, Sam Jethroe, Jim Mangan, Bill Bell, Red Swanson, Red Munger, Hank Foiles, Hardy Peterson, Gino Cimoli, Walt Moryn, Elmo Plaskett, John Gelnar, Frank Carpin, Jesse Gonder, Al Luplow, Richie Hebner.
Best player to wear number 20: Pie Traynor. Honorable mention: Richie Hebner.
Gino Cimoli was a real fan favorite when he was here. When he did something good on the field, I remember my Italian grandmother saying, “ ‘Ats a my boy, Gino!”
Pie Traynor, Lee Handley, Bob Klinger, Ray Starr, Boom-Boom Beck, Ken Heintzelman, Hal Gregg, Vern Law, Ron Kline, Paul Pettit, Sam Jethroe, Jim Mangan, Bill Bell, Red Swanson, Red Munger, Hank Foiles, Hardy Peterson, Gino Cimoli, Walt Moryn, Elmo Plaskett, John Gelnar, Frank Carpin, Jesse Gonder, Al Luplow, Richie Hebner.
Best player to wear number 20: Pie Traynor. Honorable mention: Richie Hebner.
Gino Cimoli was a real fan favorite when he was here. When he did something good on the field, I remember my Italian grandmother saying, “ ‘Ats a my boy, Gino!”
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Bobster21
52 days till first Spring Training game
1D4B5D49465C4C474A5D6F48424E4643014C2F0 wrote: 20 days until the first Spring Training game. Here are the illustrious Pirates who have worn number 20:
Pie Traynor, Lee Handley, Bob Klinger, Ray Starr, Boom-Boom Beck, Ken Heintzelman, Hal Gregg, Vern Law, Ron Kline, Paul Pettit, Sam Jethroe, Jim Mangan, Bill Bell, Red Swanson, Red Munger, Hank Foiles, Hardy Peterson, Gino Cimoli, Walt Moryn, Elmo Plaskett, John Gelnar, Frank Carpin, Jesse Gonder, Al Luplow, Richie Hebner.
Best player to wear number 20: Pie Traynor. Honorable mention: Richie Hebner.
Gino Cimoli was a real fan favorite when he was here. When he did something good on the field, I remember my Italian grandmother saying, “ ‘Ats a my boy, Gino!”
That was a popular saying in Pittsburgh in 1960.
Pie Traynor, Lee Handley, Bob Klinger, Ray Starr, Boom-Boom Beck, Ken Heintzelman, Hal Gregg, Vern Law, Ron Kline, Paul Pettit, Sam Jethroe, Jim Mangan, Bill Bell, Red Swanson, Red Munger, Hank Foiles, Hardy Peterson, Gino Cimoli, Walt Moryn, Elmo Plaskett, John Gelnar, Frank Carpin, Jesse Gonder, Al Luplow, Richie Hebner.
Best player to wear number 20: Pie Traynor. Honorable mention: Richie Hebner.
Gino Cimoli was a real fan favorite when he was here. When he did something good on the field, I remember my Italian grandmother saying, “ ‘Ats a my boy, Gino!”
That was a popular saying in Pittsburgh in 1960.
52 days till first Spring Training game
19 days until the first Spring Training game. Here are the illustrious Pirates who have worn number 19:
Max Butcher, Maurice Van Robays, Jimmy Bloodworth, Gene Mauch, Hugh Mulcahy, Jack Cassini, Bill Werle, Harry Fisher, Red Munger, Bob Friend, Pete Mikkelsen, Bruce Dal Canton, Joe Gibbon, Pedro Ramos, Jim Shellenback, Mudcat Grant, Jim Rooker, Rod Scurry, Terry Harper, Houston Jimenez, Gary Redus, Albert Hall, Wally Backman, Curtis Wilkerson, Dan Plesac, Emil Brown, Luis Sojo, Reggie Sanders, Ty Wigginton, Jose Bautista, Neil Walker, Ryan Church, Chris Snyder, Jeff Clement, Mike McKenry, Chris Stewart, Colin Moran, Daniel Vogelbach.
Best player to wear number 19: Bob Friend. Honorable mention: Max Butcher, Jim Rooker.
Max Butcher, Maurice Van Robays, Jimmy Bloodworth, Gene Mauch, Hugh Mulcahy, Jack Cassini, Bill Werle, Harry Fisher, Red Munger, Bob Friend, Pete Mikkelsen, Bruce Dal Canton, Joe Gibbon, Pedro Ramos, Jim Shellenback, Mudcat Grant, Jim Rooker, Rod Scurry, Terry Harper, Houston Jimenez, Gary Redus, Albert Hall, Wally Backman, Curtis Wilkerson, Dan Plesac, Emil Brown, Luis Sojo, Reggie Sanders, Ty Wigginton, Jose Bautista, Neil Walker, Ryan Church, Chris Snyder, Jeff Clement, Mike McKenry, Chris Stewart, Colin Moran, Daniel Vogelbach.
Best player to wear number 19: Bob Friend. Honorable mention: Max Butcher, Jim Rooker.
52 days till first Spring Training game
All right! Bob Friend.