45475D5B4D280 wrote: Oops. Does baseball have a problem?
http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/2513 ... tings-down
I'm one who watched most of the World Series. I thought it was really good baseball most of the time. The defense and gameplay was a lot of fun to watch. Not error filled or stupid mental mistakes like we often see around here. My 9 year old son faithfully watched as much baseball as he could every night before bedtime and was totally into it.
I think the problem has nothing to do with markets, the teams that were playing, or the game in general. I think the number one problem is how long and slow the games are. Plus, the games started at 8:20pm or so. So, by default, pretty much no children could watch much of these games. It was a serious struggle for me to stay awake till the end of the games and I was into it.
It is just too slow. Unnecessarily. The biggest issue by far is the time taken between pitches. With a friend, I watched the end of the 1960 WS. Tons of pitches and runs. But the pitcher went right to the top of the mound and threw the ball. The batter didn't get out of the box. No Josh Harrison in between pitches with batting gloves, toe taps, deep breathes, and other nonsense. I was counting 30 seconds between pitches regularly during this World Series. The 1960 WS would have had 3 pitches in that time. I think if pitchers and hitters work faster, this probably solves the problem. The game will move much faster (there won't be long pauses between pitches) and shorter.
Another issue regarding fan interest is about relief pitchers. I think that it is a problem that so many relief pitchers are pitching. Casual fans aren't interested in seeing Ryan Madson pitch. They want to see Kershaw pitch. They want to see Chris Sale and David Price pitch. Not some kid that can throw 102 out of the bullpen. I know why baseball has gone this direction, but they also have to recognize fans won't be interested. Kershaw is a HOFer. People want to see him pitch. Pulling him out of a WS game in the 4th-5th inning is not good for baseball.
The year of PLayoff and Wild Card berths
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
The year of PLayoff and Wild Card berths
485571737D180 wrote: Oops. Does baseball have a problem?
http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/2513 ... tings-down
I'm one who watched most of the World Series. I thought it was really good baseball most of the time. The defense and gameplay was a lot of fun to watch. Not error filled or stupid mental mistakes like we often see around here. My 9 year old son faithfully watched as much baseball as he could every night before bedtime and was totally into it.
I think the problem has nothing to do with markets, the teams that were playing, or the game in general. I think the number one problem is how long and slow the games are. Plus, the games started at 8:20pm or so. So, by default, pretty much no children could watch much of these games. It was a serious struggle for me to stay awake till the end of the games and I was into it.
It is just too slow. Unnecessarily. The biggest issue by far is the time taken between pitches. With a friend, I watched the end of the 1960 WS. Tons of pitches and runs. But the pitcher went right to the top of the mound and threw the ball. The batter didn't get out of the box. No Josh Harrison in between pitches with batting gloves, toe taps, deep breathes, and other nonsense. I was counting 30 seconds between pitches regularly during this World Series. The 1960 WS would have had 3 pitches in that time. I think if pitchers and hitters work faster, this probably solves the problem. The game will move much faster (there won't be long pauses between pitches) and shorter.
Another issue regarding fan interest is about relief pitchers. I think that it is a problem that so many relief pitchers are pitching. Casual fans aren't interested in seeing Ryan Madson pitch. They want to see Kershaw pitch. They want to see Chris Sale and David Price pitch. Not some kid that can throw 102 out of the bullpen. I know why baseball has gone this direction, but they also have to recognize fans won't be interested. Kershaw is a HOFer. People want to see him pitch. Pulling him out of a WS game in the 4th-5th inning is not good for baseball.
I think PMike has hit the nail on the head with critique of pace of play.
I read somewhere that the entire 4 games of the 1939 (?) World Series took less time than the 18 inning game three of the 2018 series.
http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/2513 ... tings-down
I'm one who watched most of the World Series. I thought it was really good baseball most of the time. The defense and gameplay was a lot of fun to watch. Not error filled or stupid mental mistakes like we often see around here. My 9 year old son faithfully watched as much baseball as he could every night before bedtime and was totally into it.
I think the problem has nothing to do with markets, the teams that were playing, or the game in general. I think the number one problem is how long and slow the games are. Plus, the games started at 8:20pm or so. So, by default, pretty much no children could watch much of these games. It was a serious struggle for me to stay awake till the end of the games and I was into it.
It is just too slow. Unnecessarily. The biggest issue by far is the time taken between pitches. With a friend, I watched the end of the 1960 WS. Tons of pitches and runs. But the pitcher went right to the top of the mound and threw the ball. The batter didn't get out of the box. No Josh Harrison in between pitches with batting gloves, toe taps, deep breathes, and other nonsense. I was counting 30 seconds between pitches regularly during this World Series. The 1960 WS would have had 3 pitches in that time. I think if pitchers and hitters work faster, this probably solves the problem. The game will move much faster (there won't be long pauses between pitches) and shorter.
Another issue regarding fan interest is about relief pitchers. I think that it is a problem that so many relief pitchers are pitching. Casual fans aren't interested in seeing Ryan Madson pitch. They want to see Kershaw pitch. They want to see Chris Sale and David Price pitch. Not some kid that can throw 102 out of the bullpen. I know why baseball has gone this direction, but they also have to recognize fans won't be interested. Kershaw is a HOFer. People want to see him pitch. Pulling him out of a WS game in the 4th-5th inning is not good for baseball.
I think PMike has hit the nail on the head with critique of pace of play.
I read somewhere that the entire 4 games of the 1939 (?) World Series took less time than the 18 inning game three of the 2018 series.
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SammyKhalifa
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- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
The year of PLayoff and Wild Card berths
My (totall non evidence based) instinct is that the stressed importance of working counts plays into this more than anything else. I wonder how many first-pitch outs were in that '39 WS.
The year of PLayoff and Wild Card berths
To balance some of the Machado talk, here's a bit of news that suggests a much more likely Pirate target - Pedro Florimon has cleared waivers and is soon to be a free agent. Strong defense, shortstop, inexpensive . . .
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DemDog
The year of PLayoff and Wild Card berths
3A38222432570 wrote: To balance some of the Machado talk, here's a bit of news that suggests a much more likely Pirate target - Pedro Florimon has cleared waivers and is soon to be a free agent. Strong defense, shortstop, inexpensive . . .
You're kidding, aren't you?
You're kidding, aren't you?
The year of PLayoff and Wild Card berths
I wish I were. I can see NH's lip twitch at the thought - defensive backup, cheap . . . Not what you or I would want, but I'd wager a lot closer to what we get than what either of us would ask for.
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rucker59@gmail.com
The year of PLayoff and Wild Card berths
63444F6C210 wrote: I actually believe that there are a number of low revenue owners who are quite content with being able to maintain low payrolls.
This. I’ve long wondered why the small mkt teams dont come together to balance the game. I now realize: too many of them don’t want a salary cap as it would pretty much force additional spending. No way Bob Nutting votes for a $140m cap.
This. I’ve long wondered why the small mkt teams dont come together to balance the game. I now realize: too many of them don’t want a salary cap as it would pretty much force additional spending. No way Bob Nutting votes for a $140m cap.
The year of PLayoff and Wild Card berths
73414D4D596B48414C494641200 wrote: My (totall non evidence based) instinct is that the stressed importance of working counts plays into this more than anything else. I wonder how many first-pitch outs were in that '39 WS.
I looked up stats on Baseball reference. Pitch counts weren't kept then but each team only had 27 hits. The Yankees out homered the Reds 7-0 and outscored them 20-8. Game 4 took 10 innings.
Few relievers used, each team had 2 complete games.
Lefty Gomez did have a one inning start and Oral Hildebrand had a 4 inning start for Yankees. Yankees used 7 pitchers and the Reds only used 5.
Total of 15 walks and 42 strikeouts.
I think a big factor in time is the time between innings too. I bet it was much shorter in 1939 (maybe only a minute between innings).
The year of PLayoff and Wild Card berths
0C113537395C0 wrote: Here’s what Adam Wainwright said about Buehler on Twitter:
“I guarantee that anybody who played against or saw @buehlersdayoff pitch this season isn’t surprised at all by how he’s pitching tonight. Hands down best stuff I saw in person all year from a starting pitcher. Nasty. #WorldSeries2018”
This guy should be in our rotation. How did we not sign this guy? I have to admit, when we drafted him, I said to myself, “Self, anybody with the name 'Buehler,' can’t be that great. No big deal.” Wow was I ever wrong.
We sign the Newmans and Kramers of the world while letting Trey Turner walk away. And we sign all sorts of pitchers, dozens even, and let a guy like this walk. I’m ticked tonight.
Ok, so I don't necessarily disagree. I went back and looked at the PP coverage from back then. It wasn't like he was a slam dunk prospect in 2012. He was out of HS as a righty and throwing 90-94. He was projected as a mid 2nd round guy with sign ability issues and a strong commitment to Vandy. He fell through because of Boras/Appel wanting a ton of money...and then didn't sign.
But Buehler didn't sign until the 15th round. Everyone else passed on him 12+ times because they thought he wouldn't sign and/or didn't see it in him.
Here's the thing. I never get caught up in a kid saying he is a strong commitment to (insert your stud college program). It wouldn't disuade me from picking him. Josh Bell was a strong verbal to Texas, right?
“I guarantee that anybody who played against or saw @buehlersdayoff pitch this season isn’t surprised at all by how he’s pitching tonight. Hands down best stuff I saw in person all year from a starting pitcher. Nasty. #WorldSeries2018”
This guy should be in our rotation. How did we not sign this guy? I have to admit, when we drafted him, I said to myself, “Self, anybody with the name 'Buehler,' can’t be that great. No big deal.” Wow was I ever wrong.
We sign the Newmans and Kramers of the world while letting Trey Turner walk away. And we sign all sorts of pitchers, dozens even, and let a guy like this walk. I’m ticked tonight.
Ok, so I don't necessarily disagree. I went back and looked at the PP coverage from back then. It wasn't like he was a slam dunk prospect in 2012. He was out of HS as a righty and throwing 90-94. He was projected as a mid 2nd round guy with sign ability issues and a strong commitment to Vandy. He fell through because of Boras/Appel wanting a ton of money...and then didn't sign.
But Buehler didn't sign until the 15th round. Everyone else passed on him 12+ times because they thought he wouldn't sign and/or didn't see it in him.
Here's the thing. I never get caught up in a kid saying he is a strong commitment to (insert your stud college program). It wouldn't disuade me from picking him. Josh Bell was a strong verbal to Texas, right?
The year of PLayoff and Wild Card berths
6373724553535F300 wrote: Here’s what Adam Wainwright said about Buehler on Twitter:
“I guarantee that anybody who played against or saw @buehlersdayoff pitch this season isn’t surprised at all by how he’s pitching tonight. Hands down best stuff I saw in person all year from a starting pitcher. Nasty. #WorldSeries2018”
This guy should be in our rotation. How did we not sign this guy? I have to admit, when we drafted him, I said to myself, “Self, anybody with the name 'Buehler,' can’t be that great. No big deal.” Wow was I ever wrong.
We sign the Newmans and Kramers of the world while letting Trey Turner walk away. And we sign all sorts of pitchers, dozens even, and let a guy like this walk. I’m ticked tonight.
Ok, so I don't necessarily disagree. I went back and looked at the PP coverage from back then. It wasn't like he was a slam dunk prospect in 2012. He was out of HS as a righty and throwing 90-94. He was projected as a mid 2nd round guy with sign ability issues and a strong commitment to Vandy. He fell through because of Boras/Appel wanting a ton of money...and then didn't sign.
But Buehler didn't sign until the 15th round. Everyone else passed on him 12+ times because they thought he wouldn't sign and/or didn't see it in him.
Here's the thing. I never get caught up in a kid saying he is a strong commitment to (insert your stud college program). It wouldn't disuade me from picking him. Josh Bell was a strong verbal to Texas, right?
Completely agree. It looks like he was asking for about $1million out of HS. In hindsight, the Pirates should have saved every penny elsewhere to make that happen. However, I think they were hamstrung waiting for the Appel shoe to drop. Unfortunately, it sounds like Appel waiting so long screwed over their shot at Buehler.
“I guarantee that anybody who played against or saw @buehlersdayoff pitch this season isn’t surprised at all by how he’s pitching tonight. Hands down best stuff I saw in person all year from a starting pitcher. Nasty. #WorldSeries2018”
This guy should be in our rotation. How did we not sign this guy? I have to admit, when we drafted him, I said to myself, “Self, anybody with the name 'Buehler,' can’t be that great. No big deal.” Wow was I ever wrong.
We sign the Newmans and Kramers of the world while letting Trey Turner walk away. And we sign all sorts of pitchers, dozens even, and let a guy like this walk. I’m ticked tonight.
Ok, so I don't necessarily disagree. I went back and looked at the PP coverage from back then. It wasn't like he was a slam dunk prospect in 2012. He was out of HS as a righty and throwing 90-94. He was projected as a mid 2nd round guy with sign ability issues and a strong commitment to Vandy. He fell through because of Boras/Appel wanting a ton of money...and then didn't sign.
But Buehler didn't sign until the 15th round. Everyone else passed on him 12+ times because they thought he wouldn't sign and/or didn't see it in him.
Here's the thing. I never get caught up in a kid saying he is a strong commitment to (insert your stud college program). It wouldn't disuade me from picking him. Josh Bell was a strong verbal to Texas, right?
Completely agree. It looks like he was asking for about $1million out of HS. In hindsight, the Pirates should have saved every penny elsewhere to make that happen. However, I think they were hamstrung waiting for the Appel shoe to drop. Unfortunately, it sounds like Appel waiting so long screwed over their shot at Buehler.