6B4F5B53563A0 wrote: As far as Cole's bad inning is concerned I was reading on DK's site this morning that some of the players are perturbed with the defensive shift that was deployed during Leon's at bat. With only a single run in, a man on first, two outs and Cole pitching well the shift allowed a free base to Leon (who bunted for a single down the vacated 3B side) who (in the opinion of DK and some players) should have been defensed normally to force him to 'earn' the base. The upshot of the argument is that deploying a defensive shift dogmatically without considering the nuances of the game situation is counterproductive. It certainly appears to be a compelling argument in the case of yesterday's game. Leon may have gotten a hit or walk anyway but that shift was tantamount to an intentional walk with the top of the order due up.
Exactly. It's like saying "We have to do something extraordinary to get their #9 hitter out." Symptomatic of MLB managing today. Everything by rote instead of thinking and analyzing. Must change pitchers for 7th, 8th and 9th innings. Must limit starter to 100 pitches. Must shift.
4/3 Game Thread - Opening Day
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
4/3 Game Thread - Opening Day
43415B5D4B2E0 wrote: Most of the post-game talk here seems to be on Cole's meltdown and Cutch's strikeouts. I thought it was also interesting that Mercer was unable to make that play on the ball to short. From the restricted view of the television camera it didn't look to be too far into the hole, but was far enough it was at the edge of Mercer's range. It was a play Ngoepe would have made, and the inning would have ended without any scoring. Instead it allowed one direct run and opened the door to five total runs. This is why I consider defense to be so hard to evaluate. No error shows there so it gets forgotten. But in a sense, five runs occurred because of Mercer's limited range. He did drive in a run later, so while he's down five on the defensive side, he recouped one on offense, so I have him at minus four on the day.
While the ball may not have been deep in the hole, Mercer was shifted strongly up the middle. He had to cover a lot of ground. That was a play that even the best SS don't make very often, IMO. Even with Sandoval running.
While the ball may not have been deep in the hole, Mercer was shifted strongly up the middle. He had to cover a lot of ground. That was a play that even the best SS don't make very often, IMO. Even with Sandoval running.
4/3 Game Thread - Opening Day
052E2F322931280433252529460 wrote: didn't get to see the game
Did the HR off Cole come off a mistake pitch?
how did the relievers look?
Couple of thoughts including this one.
A). I thought Cole was tremendous today. He gave up the triple (that should have been a double, but I'll let some else speak about that), but if Mercer remembers Panda is running and sets his feet and makes a good throw, we have a look at getting out of the inning.
If Cole fields the bunt, we get out of the inning down 2-0.
The Boston kid hit a 98 mph pitch. At some point you tip the hat. He hit a dynamite pitch. Don't discount how good Cole's stuff was today. If he pitches like that this season, he'll be good.
Cutch looked terrible today. It looks like his bat speed is slowing down and he's guessing on pitches before they are thrown and is unable to adjust. This concern me a lot.
I think Frazier played a good game today. I was not a huge fan of his, but definitely think he has JHay in 2014 potential which could be huge.
If Polanco isn't healthy enough to play in the OF, don't have him stealing bases. I know it's a shoulder and not a leg, but it's all connected.
We are going to have a problem scoring runs. I don't know why we aren't dropping bunts to third when the shift is on. Take free bases and get players on. We don't have a player on this roster who is clutch power threat. If they are giving us first base, especially with no one out and the shift on, bunt.
Did the HR off Cole come off a mistake pitch?
how did the relievers look?
Couple of thoughts including this one.
A). I thought Cole was tremendous today. He gave up the triple (that should have been a double, but I'll let some else speak about that), but if Mercer remembers Panda is running and sets his feet and makes a good throw, we have a look at getting out of the inning.
If Cole fields the bunt, we get out of the inning down 2-0.
The Boston kid hit a 98 mph pitch. At some point you tip the hat. He hit a dynamite pitch. Don't discount how good Cole's stuff was today. If he pitches like that this season, he'll be good.
Cutch looked terrible today. It looks like his bat speed is slowing down and he's guessing on pitches before they are thrown and is unable to adjust. This concern me a lot.
I think Frazier played a good game today. I was not a huge fan of his, but definitely think he has JHay in 2014 potential which could be huge.
If Polanco isn't healthy enough to play in the OF, don't have him stealing bases. I know it's a shoulder and not a leg, but it's all connected.
We are going to have a problem scoring runs. I don't know why we aren't dropping bunts to third when the shift is on. Take free bases and get players on. We don't have a player on this roster who is clutch power threat. If they are giving us first base, especially with no one out and the shift on, bunt.
4/3 Game Thread - Opening Day
4C616C7D7A6B7C3C3F0E0 wrote: As far as Cole's bad inning is concerned I was reading on DK's site this morning that some of the players are perturbed with the defensive shift that was deployed during Leon's at bat. With only a single run in, a man on first, two outs and Cole pitching well the shift allowed a free base to Leon (who bunted for a single down the vacated 3B side) who (in the opinion of DK and some players) should have been defensed normally to force him to 'earn' the base. The upshot of the argument is that deploying a defensive shift dogmatically without considering the nuances of the game situation is counterproductive. It certainly appears to be a compelling argument in the case of yesterday's game. Leon may have gotten a hit or walk anyway but that shift was tantamount to an intentional walk with the top of the order due up.
Exactly. It like saying "We have to do something extraordinary to get their #9 hitter out." Symptomatic of MLB managing today. Everything by rote instead of thinking and analyzing. Must change pitchers for 7th, 8th and 9th innings. Must limit starter to 100 pitches. Must shift.
I don't know that it was that. Leon was a really good hitter last year. I think they were expecting him to hit. How often do we crush our own lefties for pounding ground balls to shifted infielders and not taking a bunt hit. Leon bucked the common trend and laid down a bunt. To be honest, before the game yesterday, I'd have said he is a pretty unlikely guy to do that.
This seems like one of those "damned if you do and damned if you don't" arguments.
Exactly. It like saying "We have to do something extraordinary to get their #9 hitter out." Symptomatic of MLB managing today. Everything by rote instead of thinking and analyzing. Must change pitchers for 7th, 8th and 9th innings. Must limit starter to 100 pitches. Must shift.
I don't know that it was that. Leon was a really good hitter last year. I think they were expecting him to hit. How often do we crush our own lefties for pounding ground balls to shifted infielders and not taking a bunt hit. Leon bucked the common trend and laid down a bunt. To be honest, before the game yesterday, I'd have said he is a pretty unlikely guy to do that.
This seems like one of those "damned if you do and damned if you don't" arguments.
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OrlandoMerced
4/3 Game Thread - Opening Day
There were two outs, so they didn't give up the double play.
But the shift wasn't definitely stupid, what planet is Hurdle on thinking that #9 hitter wouldn't take the free base and roll the lineup over to Pedroia?
But the shift wasn't definitely stupid, what planet is Hurdle on thinking that #9 hitter wouldn't take the free base and roll the lineup over to Pedroia?
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3631
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
4/3 Game Thread - Opening Day
Not to just pull bright spots out of a loss, but the bullpen looked like it could be absolutely filthy. The Daniel Hudson signing kind of flew under everyone's radar with everything else that was happening/not happening.
4/3 Game Thread - Opening Day
A couple of thoughts.
1) Cole looked great for the first 4.2 innings. Unfortunately, quite a few things went wrong after that. A double (Bradley was running like it was a double and not a triple) becomes a triple, a perfectly hit ball by Sandoval, the bunt, and then Pedroria almost takes Cole out with a hit up the middle. Looking back, I think Pedroria's hit really unnerved Cole. And, with respect to the meltdown, Bumgartner surrendered 3 in the 7th after being perfect through 6.1 innings. Sometimes games get away from even the best pitchers.
2) McCutchen looked bad in the field and at the plate. The Sox went right after him at the plate and he weakly swung and missed at quite a few pitches. In the field, he misplayed a double into a triple and timidly went after a ball hit down the right field line when he couldn't catch a foul ball. Clearly, one game does not a season make ---- but yesterday, he looked like the worst player on the field for the Pirates.
3) Nice to see good weather for the opening game of the season. Almost looked like baseball weather.
4) Another observation on Cole ---- he did appear to be doing better at holding runners on base.
5) It sure is a lot more fun to win ballgames than to lose them.
Hoping that the weather holds on for Thursday's game so I can actually get to see the Pirates play at Fenway without wearing 3 raincoats.
1) Cole looked great for the first 4.2 innings. Unfortunately, quite a few things went wrong after that. A double (Bradley was running like it was a double and not a triple) becomes a triple, a perfectly hit ball by Sandoval, the bunt, and then Pedroria almost takes Cole out with a hit up the middle. Looking back, I think Pedroria's hit really unnerved Cole. And, with respect to the meltdown, Bumgartner surrendered 3 in the 7th after being perfect through 6.1 innings. Sometimes games get away from even the best pitchers.
2) McCutchen looked bad in the field and at the plate. The Sox went right after him at the plate and he weakly swung and missed at quite a few pitches. In the field, he misplayed a double into a triple and timidly went after a ball hit down the right field line when he couldn't catch a foul ball. Clearly, one game does not a season make ---- but yesterday, he looked like the worst player on the field for the Pirates.
3) Nice to see good weather for the opening game of the season. Almost looked like baseball weather.
4) Another observation on Cole ---- he did appear to be doing better at holding runners on base.
5) It sure is a lot more fun to win ballgames than to lose them.
Hoping that the weather holds on for Thursday's game so I can actually get to see the Pirates play at Fenway without wearing 3 raincoats.
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rucker59@gmail.com
4/3 Game Thread - Opening Day
Thoughts:
Like Ia, I too hate day 2 of the baseball season. UgH!
It was disappointing to see the heart of the lineup pretty much fail at bring runs in with less then 2 outs. I know Marte had a sac, but I also know Boston was more than happy to trade one run for an out (but Boston also got a very good play from their rookie phenom; Marte almost cleared the bases).
Cutch looked lost and his demeanor looked like he knows he's lost. I feel horrible for him.
Each time thought the lineup, was I the only one that looked forward to Frazier's AB but dreaded Cutch's?
Cole pitched a GREAT game till he blew up. But that's the problem - it was potentially one of his best games yet he still melted down. Granted he was going against a great lineup, but for now he's still not shown he can be a true shut down guy.
We miss Kang big time.
I feel bad for Cutch....
Like Ia, I too hate day 2 of the baseball season. UgH!
It was disappointing to see the heart of the lineup pretty much fail at bring runs in with less then 2 outs. I know Marte had a sac, but I also know Boston was more than happy to trade one run for an out (but Boston also got a very good play from their rookie phenom; Marte almost cleared the bases).
Cutch looked lost and his demeanor looked like he knows he's lost. I feel horrible for him.
Each time thought the lineup, was I the only one that looked forward to Frazier's AB but dreaded Cutch's?
Cole pitched a GREAT game till he blew up. But that's the problem - it was potentially one of his best games yet he still melted down. Granted he was going against a great lineup, but for now he's still not shown he can be a true shut down guy.
We miss Kang big time.
I feel bad for Cutch....
4/3 Game Thread - Opening Day
"WOW, to put all 5 of the runs on Mercer's head is so wrong." .
And yet the facts are irrefutable. If Mercer had made the play, the inning was over and no runs scored. Of course I am only partly serious when I advance this idea (and really, from watching on TV I couldn't see the defensive alignment nor how far he had to go to get to it). My real point is that all the talk was about Cutch's strikeouts or Cole mistake pitch (but what about his fumbled attempt to field the bunt?). We never look at defense. My theory is we don't because it is neither clear nor quantifiable. But it does have a real impact on the game. It just isn't easily reduced to stats.
And yet the facts are irrefutable. If Mercer had made the play, the inning was over and no runs scored. Of course I am only partly serious when I advance this idea (and really, from watching on TV I couldn't see the defensive alignment nor how far he had to go to get to it). My real point is that all the talk was about Cutch's strikeouts or Cole mistake pitch (but what about his fumbled attempt to field the bunt?). We never look at defense. My theory is we don't because it is neither clear nor quantifiable. But it does have a real impact on the game. It just isn't easily reduced to stats.
4/3 Game Thread - Opening Day
65785C5E50350 wrote: As far as Cole's bad inning is concerned I was reading on DK's site this morning that some of the players are perturbed with the defensive shift that was deployed during Leon's at bat. With only a single run in, a man on first, two outs and Cole pitching well the shift allowed a free base to Leon (who bunted for a single down the vacated 3B side) who (in the opinion of DK and some players) should have been defensed normally to force him to 'earn' the base. The upshot of the argument is that deploying a defensive shift dogmatically without considering the nuances of the game situation is counterproductive. It certainly appears to be a compelling argument in the case of yesterday's game. Leon may have gotten a hit or walk anyway but that shift was tantamount to an intentional walk with the top of the order due up.
Exactly. It like saying "We have to do something extraordinary to get their #9 hitter out." Symptomatic of MLB managing today. Everything by rote instead of thinking and analyzing. Must change pitchers for 7th, 8th and 9th innings. Must limit starter to 100 pitches. Must shift.
I don't know that it was that. Leon was a really good hitter last year. I think they were expecting him to hit. How often do we crush our own lefties for pounding ground balls to shifted infielders and not taking a bunt hit. Leon bucked the common trend and laid down a bunt. To be honest, before the game yesterday, I'd have said he is a pretty unlikely guy to do that.
This seems like one of those "damned if you do and damned if you don't" arguments.
With no one on base I agree, but in that circumstance not only did they give a free base to the hitter but it also moved a man into scoring position. That's just bad baseball strategy with the top of the order coming up.
Exactly. It like saying "We have to do something extraordinary to get their #9 hitter out." Symptomatic of MLB managing today. Everything by rote instead of thinking and analyzing. Must change pitchers for 7th, 8th and 9th innings. Must limit starter to 100 pitches. Must shift.
I don't know that it was that. Leon was a really good hitter last year. I think they were expecting him to hit. How often do we crush our own lefties for pounding ground balls to shifted infielders and not taking a bunt hit. Leon bucked the common trend and laid down a bunt. To be honest, before the game yesterday, I'd have said he is a pretty unlikely guy to do that.
This seems like one of those "damned if you do and damned if you don't" arguments.
With no one on base I agree, but in that circumstance not only did they give a free base to the hitter but it also moved a man into scoring position. That's just bad baseball strategy with the top of the order coming up.