54686E68737A6C751B0 wrote: Trade cutch and cole to arizona for goldschmidt and a top prospect. Move marte to center and bell to left. Problem solved. Brault moves to the rotation. Maybe glasnow in mix in rotation as well at some point.
Interesting suggestion!
While my discontent with Cole is at an all-time high I hear the devil whispering into my left ear telling me to make that trade. Meanwhile the angel whispering into my right ear is telling me that Cutch and Cole will be back to their career levels next season and I'll regret this. So who's the prospect? :-/
8/24 Game Thread - Cole v Stros
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
8/24 Game Thread - Cole v Stros
Well, this game is pretty much over.
If you are in a tight pennant race, you CANNOT lose this game with this pitching matchup.
Problem is, Cole right now is pitching like a bad No. 5 starter. WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO HIM? He's not good and he's losing EVERY TIME through the rotation.
Then of course there's the other problem ... pitchers with a recent ERA of 9.00 shutting down the Pirates offense. And it surprises no one.
What a mess ... and what a disaster of a homestand.
Cole's ERA is now over 3.50.
He goes 5 innings. So he's again not going deep.
As you said, there is simply NO WAY the Pirates can lose this matchup. Cole is the single biggest reason the Pirates are on the outside looking in at the WC.
Regarding the mess: As I mentioned in another thread, I don't like this team going into next year. Some real changes are needed.
What changes need to be made VA just curious to see what you think. I think the lineup is pretty much set. The pitching staff though needs a ton of work.
Yeah I don't think there really is much to change for next year either. This team is positioned to be much better in 2017. I even like the rotation a lot with Taillon, Cole, Glasnow, and Kuhl.
Plus, looks like Bell may finally give the Pirates a competent 1B...also, Newman might make Mercer expendable. One of this teams big issues is that they're built better to compete next year.
I just don't see this team as automatically built better for 2017. The bullpen is a big question mark. Has Watson, Bastardo and Rivira and Hughes.
Starting pitching, who is to say when Glasnow will be ready? Is Kuhl the real deal? Hutchison? Brault is probably needed to come through too.
To me, to be competitive next year the Bucs need to bring in a starter with higher potential than Niese was for this year. I don't think you a team should be confident with a starting pitching 5 where Cole is going to be the only one to make 25 starts in the majors in 2016.
and 2017 will need Bell to be productive, Cutch and Cervelli to bounce back.
It just seems like going into this off season there are a lot of question marks for the Bucs for 2017.
If you are in a tight pennant race, you CANNOT lose this game with this pitching matchup.
Problem is, Cole right now is pitching like a bad No. 5 starter. WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO HIM? He's not good and he's losing EVERY TIME through the rotation.
Then of course there's the other problem ... pitchers with a recent ERA of 9.00 shutting down the Pirates offense. And it surprises no one.
What a mess ... and what a disaster of a homestand.
Cole's ERA is now over 3.50.
He goes 5 innings. So he's again not going deep.
As you said, there is simply NO WAY the Pirates can lose this matchup. Cole is the single biggest reason the Pirates are on the outside looking in at the WC.
Regarding the mess: As I mentioned in another thread, I don't like this team going into next year. Some real changes are needed.
What changes need to be made VA just curious to see what you think. I think the lineup is pretty much set. The pitching staff though needs a ton of work.
Yeah I don't think there really is much to change for next year either. This team is positioned to be much better in 2017. I even like the rotation a lot with Taillon, Cole, Glasnow, and Kuhl.
Plus, looks like Bell may finally give the Pirates a competent 1B...also, Newman might make Mercer expendable. One of this teams big issues is that they're built better to compete next year.
I just don't see this team as automatically built better for 2017. The bullpen is a big question mark. Has Watson, Bastardo and Rivira and Hughes.
Starting pitching, who is to say when Glasnow will be ready? Is Kuhl the real deal? Hutchison? Brault is probably needed to come through too.
To me, to be competitive next year the Bucs need to bring in a starter with higher potential than Niese was for this year. I don't think you a team should be confident with a starting pitching 5 where Cole is going to be the only one to make 25 starts in the majors in 2016.
and 2017 will need Bell to be productive, Cutch and Cervelli to bounce back.
It just seems like going into this off season there are a lot of question marks for the Bucs for 2017.
8/24 Game Thread - Cole v Stros
0B2F3B33365A0 wrote: Trade cutch and cole to arizona for goldschmidt and a top prospect. Move marte to center and bell to left. Problem solved. Brault moves to the rotation. Maybe glasnow in mix in rotation as well at some point.
Interesting suggestion!
While my discontent with Cole is at an all-time high I hear the devil whispering into my left ear telling me to make that trade. Meanwhile the angel whispering into my right ear is telling me that Cutch and Cole will be back to their career levels next season and I'll regret this. So who's the prospect? :-/
I like Alex Young or Brad Keller. Maybe both
Interesting suggestion!
While my discontent with Cole is at an all-time high I hear the devil whispering into my left ear telling me to make that trade. Meanwhile the angel whispering into my right ear is telling me that Cutch and Cole will be back to their career levels next season and I'll regret this. So who's the prospect? :-/
I like Alex Young or Brad Keller. Maybe both
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Bobster21
8/24 Game Thread - Cole v Stros
6A6D7B737D6A2D21587F75797174367B7775180 wrote: See where you're coming from, not sure about trading Marte to fill a hole elsewhere. Seems like you're just moving a hole around to a different place.
Marte is darn good and as a result would bring a good return. Two things: 1) Marte takes too many plays off. Can be really frustrating. 2) we have OF depth but 1st is once again a work in progress; let's use some of the depth to improve the overall team. Bell takes over for Marte. Myers (I wish) adds a real 1st base.
Marte's 10 HRs are blown out of the water: Bell and Myers are both potentially 30 HR guys.
Marte doesn't even have 10 HRs. Just 7. A significant issue is the FO's obsession with maintaining one of MLB's lowest payroll. So when we think about quality players they could get for Marte, we have to exclude anyone with a substantial contract. Marte is controlled thru 2021 and they probably wouldn't want the contract of anyone worth being traded for Marte.
Marte is darn good and as a result would bring a good return. Two things: 1) Marte takes too many plays off. Can be really frustrating. 2) we have OF depth but 1st is once again a work in progress; let's use some of the depth to improve the overall team. Bell takes over for Marte. Myers (I wish) adds a real 1st base.
Marte's 10 HRs are blown out of the water: Bell and Myers are both potentially 30 HR guys.
Marte doesn't even have 10 HRs. Just 7. A significant issue is the FO's obsession with maintaining one of MLB's lowest payroll. So when we think about quality players they could get for Marte, we have to exclude anyone with a substantial contract. Marte is controlled thru 2021 and they probably wouldn't want the contract of anyone worth being traded for Marte.
8/24 Game Thread - Cole v Stros
606771797760272B52757F737B7E3C717D7F120 wrote: Well, this game is pretty much over.
If you are in a tight pennant race, you CANNOT lose this game with this pitching matchup.
Problem is, Cole right now is pitching like a bad No. 5 starter. WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO HIM? He's not good and he's losing EVERY TIME through the rotation.
Then of course there's the other problem ... pitchers with a recent ERA of 9.00 shutting down the Pirates offense. And it surprises no one.
What a mess ... and what a disaster of a homestand.
Cole's ERA is now over 3.50.
He goes 5 innings. So he's again not going deep.
As you said, there is simply NO WAY the Pirates can lose this matchup. Cole is the single biggest reason the Pirates are on the outside looking in at the WC.
Regarding the mess: As I mentioned in another thread, I don't like this team going into next year. Some real changes are needed.
What changes need to be made VA just curious to see what you think. I think the lineup is pretty much set. The pitching staff though needs a ton of work.
Freddy, when this season started I loved this lineup. I thought 1st base could be upgraded but otherwise I considered it set for the next couple years. The rotation was the weak spot (and it was real problem much of the year). But almost 5 months into this season, I think the lineup needs to be fixed and I think it's as big an issue as the rotation IF the goal is to win a WS.
I think there is real opportunity in moving some real value to acquire real value at positions of need. I'd move Marte, Cole and Harrison. I'd shift Bell back to the OF where he belongs. I'd move Frazer to 2nd and he becomes a real leadoff hitter. I'd look for a young stud 1st base, say Will Myers. I'd acquire the best young pitcher possible. And I'd look for a couple real prospects.
Basically, I'd be swapping Cole for Myers. Both enter arb next year. But Myers is not represented by Boras and is reportedly interested in a longer term contract with the Padres. Cole will be gone in 2 years.
I truly believe that a lineup of
Frazer
Cutch (hoping for some sort of rebound)
Myers
Polanco
Bell
Freese/Kang
Jordy
Cervelli
Is a much better lineup.
The FO was not afraid to mess around with a 98 win team. Why should we be holding on to a .500 team?
Briefly - I no longer think this team is good enough to compete with the Cubs next year. I think the above lineup with the right additions to the rotation can compete with the Cubs.
Just a reminder that the only catcher we've had all season with a HR is in AA right now....Cisco had injury issues with the Yanks and has had them this year too.
If you are in a tight pennant race, you CANNOT lose this game with this pitching matchup.
Problem is, Cole right now is pitching like a bad No. 5 starter. WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO HIM? He's not good and he's losing EVERY TIME through the rotation.
Then of course there's the other problem ... pitchers with a recent ERA of 9.00 shutting down the Pirates offense. And it surprises no one.
What a mess ... and what a disaster of a homestand.
Cole's ERA is now over 3.50.
He goes 5 innings. So he's again not going deep.
As you said, there is simply NO WAY the Pirates can lose this matchup. Cole is the single biggest reason the Pirates are on the outside looking in at the WC.
Regarding the mess: As I mentioned in another thread, I don't like this team going into next year. Some real changes are needed.
What changes need to be made VA just curious to see what you think. I think the lineup is pretty much set. The pitching staff though needs a ton of work.
Freddy, when this season started I loved this lineup. I thought 1st base could be upgraded but otherwise I considered it set for the next couple years. The rotation was the weak spot (and it was real problem much of the year). But almost 5 months into this season, I think the lineup needs to be fixed and I think it's as big an issue as the rotation IF the goal is to win a WS.
I think there is real opportunity in moving some real value to acquire real value at positions of need. I'd move Marte, Cole and Harrison. I'd shift Bell back to the OF where he belongs. I'd move Frazer to 2nd and he becomes a real leadoff hitter. I'd look for a young stud 1st base, say Will Myers. I'd acquire the best young pitcher possible. And I'd look for a couple real prospects.
Basically, I'd be swapping Cole for Myers. Both enter arb next year. But Myers is not represented by Boras and is reportedly interested in a longer term contract with the Padres. Cole will be gone in 2 years.
I truly believe that a lineup of
Frazer
Cutch (hoping for some sort of rebound)
Myers
Polanco
Bell
Freese/Kang
Jordy
Cervelli
Is a much better lineup.
The FO was not afraid to mess around with a 98 win team. Why should we be holding on to a .500 team?
Briefly - I no longer think this team is good enough to compete with the Cubs next year. I think the above lineup with the right additions to the rotation can compete with the Cubs.
Just a reminder that the only catcher we've had all season with a HR is in AA right now....Cisco had injury issues with the Yanks and has had them this year too.
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rucker59@gmail.com
8/24 Game Thread - Cole v Stros
446964757263743437060 wrote: See where you're coming from, not sure about trading Marte to fill a hole elsewhere. Seems like you're just moving a hole around to a different place.
Marte is darn good and as a result would bring a good return. Two things: 1) Marte takes too many plays off. Can be really frustrating. 2) we have OF depth but 1st is once again a work in progress; let's use some of the depth to improve the overall team. Bell takes over for Marte. Myers (I wish) adds a real 1st base.
Marte's 10 HRs are blown out of the water: Bell and Myers are both potentially 30 HR guys.
Marte doesn't even have 10 HRs. Just 7. A significant issue is the FO's obsession with maintaining one of MLB's lowest payroll. So when we think about quality players they could get for Marte, we have to exclude anyone with a substantial contract. Marte is controlled thru 2021 and they probably wouldn't want the contract of anyone worth being traded for Marte.
Just as bad as not spending $$$ is not using our strengths to make the team better overall. I'm trying to move Marte for Bell!
Marte is darn good and as a result would bring a good return. Two things: 1) Marte takes too many plays off. Can be really frustrating. 2) we have OF depth but 1st is once again a work in progress; let's use some of the depth to improve the overall team. Bell takes over for Marte. Myers (I wish) adds a real 1st base.
Marte's 10 HRs are blown out of the water: Bell and Myers are both potentially 30 HR guys.
Marte doesn't even have 10 HRs. Just 7. A significant issue is the FO's obsession with maintaining one of MLB's lowest payroll. So when we think about quality players they could get for Marte, we have to exclude anyone with a substantial contract. Marte is controlled thru 2021 and they probably wouldn't want the contract of anyone worth being traded for Marte.
Just as bad as not spending $$$ is not using our strengths to make the team better overall. I'm trying to move Marte for Bell!
-
rucker59@gmail.com
8/24 Game Thread - Cole v Stros
437E79637E79170 wrote: See where you're coming from, not sure about trading Marte to fill a hole elsewhere. Seems like you're just moving a hole around to a different place.
Marte is darn good and as a result would bring a good return. Two things: 1) Marte takes too many plays off. Can be really frustrating. 2) we have OF depth but 1st is once again a work in progress; let's use some of the depth to improve the overall team. Bell takes over for Marte. Myers (I wish) adds a real 1st base.
Marte's 10 HRs are blown out of the water: Bell and Myers are both potentially 30 HR guys.
Marte is easily the best LF in the game and at PNC that means a lot.
I'll take him and what he does at the plate over a guy who can hit 30 home runs.
Marte CAN be the best left fielder in the game, but he can also be something much less than that. He's inconsistent at a minimum, not always giving his best effort at worst. He's looked mostly pretty bad this homestand.
There have been other LFers that have caught my eye lately - I thought the Marlins OF made ours look slow and disinterested (imagine if Stanton were in the lineup!) and Yelich (sp?) looked darned good to me. Soler is another. Just two examples.
Marte is darn good and as a result would bring a good return. Two things: 1) Marte takes too many plays off. Can be really frustrating. 2) we have OF depth but 1st is once again a work in progress; let's use some of the depth to improve the overall team. Bell takes over for Marte. Myers (I wish) adds a real 1st base.
Marte's 10 HRs are blown out of the water: Bell and Myers are both potentially 30 HR guys.
Marte is easily the best LF in the game and at PNC that means a lot.
I'll take him and what he does at the plate over a guy who can hit 30 home runs.
Marte CAN be the best left fielder in the game, but he can also be something much less than that. He's inconsistent at a minimum, not always giving his best effort at worst. He's looked mostly pretty bad this homestand.
There have been other LFers that have caught my eye lately - I thought the Marlins OF made ours look slow and disinterested (imagine if Stanton were in the lineup!) and Yelich (sp?) looked darned good to me. Soler is another. Just two examples.
8/24 Game Thread - Cole v Stros
28232B272223387D7B0C352D242323622F234C0 wrote: Trading Cole is not an option. Every team in the league would want him.
Your last sentence actually sounds like an argument to trade Cole. If everybody wants him, that could set up quite the bidding war, especially in such a soft FA market for starting pitchers.
Your last sentence actually sounds like an argument to trade Cole. If everybody wants him, that could set up quite the bidding war, especially in such a soft FA market for starting pitchers.
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Bobster21
8/24 Game Thread - Cole v Stros
7671676F6176313D446369656D682A676B69040 wrote: See where you're coming from, not sure about trading Marte to fill a hole elsewhere. Seems like you're just moving a hole around to a different place.
Marte is darn good and as a result would bring a good return. Two things: 1) Marte takes too many plays off. Can be really frustrating. 2) we have OF depth but 1st is once again a work in progress; let's use some of the depth to improve the overall team. Bell takes over for Marte. Myers (I wish) adds a real 1st base.
Marte's 10 HRs are blown out of the water: Bell and Myers are both potentially 30 HR guys.
Marte doesn't even have 10 HRs. Just 7. A significant issue is the FO's obsession with maintaining one of MLB's lowest payroll. So when we think about quality players they could get for Marte, we have to exclude anyone with a substantial contract. Marte is controlled thru 2021 and they probably wouldn't want the contract of anyone worth being traded for Marte.
Just as bad as not spending $$$ is not using our strengths to make the team better overall. I'm trying to move Marte for Bell!
Not really. You're trying to move Marte merely so Bell can play a different position. I'd rather have them both.
Marte is darn good and as a result would bring a good return. Two things: 1) Marte takes too many plays off. Can be really frustrating. 2) we have OF depth but 1st is once again a work in progress; let's use some of the depth to improve the overall team. Bell takes over for Marte. Myers (I wish) adds a real 1st base.
Marte's 10 HRs are blown out of the water: Bell and Myers are both potentially 30 HR guys.
Marte doesn't even have 10 HRs. Just 7. A significant issue is the FO's obsession with maintaining one of MLB's lowest payroll. So when we think about quality players they could get for Marte, we have to exclude anyone with a substantial contract. Marte is controlled thru 2021 and they probably wouldn't want the contract of anyone worth being traded for Marte.
Just as bad as not spending $$$ is not using our strengths to make the team better overall. I'm trying to move Marte for Bell!
Not really. You're trying to move Marte merely so Bell can play a different position. I'd rather have them both.
8/24 Game Thread - Cole v Stros
Marlins beat the Royals today so the game we gained back yesterday disappeared today.
Marlins have 1 more at home vs KC tomorrow then get the Padres for the weekend at home. Monday they are up in NY against the Mets.
Marlins have 1 more at home vs KC tomorrow then get the Padres for the weekend at home. Monday they are up in NY against the Mets.