ugh, BB

[Bobster21]

Bonds was a great player. But are we not to question that prior to age 35, his career best HR season was 46 and he'd had only 3 seasons out of 14 with 40 plus HRs? Suddenly at age 35-39 he hits 49, 73, 46, 45 and 45 HRs in the midst of the steroid era as his head noticeably enlarges. No one would question that thru age 34 he was one of the game's greats. Then with the help of illegal chemicals, he put up numbers from age 35-39 that were unprecedented. If that's all people need to proclaim him the greatest of all time, then I feel sorry for them. But I'm not about cheating to get results. As far as I'm concerned, Bonds disgraced himself. And I agree with Andy Van Slyke who said, "I'd rather lose without him than win with him." Bonds was a 1st class A-hole with the Pirates even before he decided to enhance his career stats illegally. Don't even get me started on that POS. If they want to retire his number, make it a "-1."

[Bobster21]

Ok, now my Bonds rant has begun and can't be contained. I thought it was funny when he went to the WS in 2002 with SF and the national media said he finally gets a chance to go to a WS (as if that hadn't happened in Pittsburgh). They apparently forgot that he had that chance with the Pirates in 1990 but choked as the Bucs lost 4 of 7 to Cincy while our hero hit .167 with 3 singles in 18 ABs with 5 Ks. He had another chance to go to the WS with the Pirates in 1991 but the Bucs lost 4 of 7 to Atl while our hero hit .148. He had another chance to go to the WS with the Pirates in 1992 but the Bucs lost 4 of 7 to Atl while our hero hit an amazing .261 and couldn't throw out Sid Bream after refusing to take a few steps in for that final batter when Van Slyke told him to. Prior to that series, he spoke to reporters about wanting more money. Geez, at least wait til the series is over to stay focused. In the clubhouse he had to have a secluded corner with a stereo and no one was to bother him. SMH.



Mazeroski was a star player in 1960 and had a great WS with key hits in 3 of the 4 wins. Clemente played 14 WS games and hit safely in all of them. He owned the 1971 WS. Willie Stargell put the team on his shoulders and took over the 1979 WS. Bonds was a great player who couldn't perform when it counted and then decided to use steroids to take his game to an even higher level. I was actually thrilled when he left the Bucs and that was even before his known steroid use. He was a 1st class jerk who put himself ahead of the team and choked when needed most. I hope the Pirates never retire his number. I hope he never gets to the HOF. Unless it's the POS Hall of Fame.

[Ecbucs]

557875646372652526170 wrote: Ok, now my Bonds rant has begun and can't be contained. I thought it was funny when he went to the WS in 2002 with SF and the national media said he finally gets a chance to go to a WS (as if that hadn't happened in Pittsburgh). They apparently forgot that he had that chance with the Pirates in 1990 but choked as the Bucs lost 4 of 7 to Cincy while our hero hit .167 with 3 singles in 18 ABs with 5 Ks. He had another chance to go to the WS with the Pirates in 1991 but the Bucs lost 4 of 7 to Atl while our hero hit .148. He had another chance to go to the WS with the Pirates in 1992 but the Bucs lost 4 of 7 to Atl while our hero hit an amazing .261 and couldn't throw out Sid Bream after refusing to take a few steps in for that final batter when Van Slyke told him to. Prior to that series, he spoke to reporters about wanting more money. Geez, at least wait til the series is over to stay focused. In the clubhouse he had to have a secluded corner with a stereo and no one was to bother him. SMH.



Mazeroski was a star player in 1960 and had a great WS with key hits in 3 of the 4 wins. Clemente played 14 WS games and hit safely in all of them. He owned the 1971 WS. Willie Stargell put the team on his shoulders and took over the 1979 WS. Bonds was a great player who couldn't perform when it  counted and then decided to use steroids to take his game to an even higher level. I was actually thrilled when he left the Bucs and that was even before his known steroid use. He was a 1st class jerk who put himself ahead of the team and choked when needed most. I hope the Pirates never retire his number. I hope he never gets to the HOF. Unless it's the POS Hall of Fame.   


I think there are many players in the Hall of Fame that are as much POS as Bonds. Just that for a lot of them it wasn't covered while they were playing.



Joe DiMaggio was one despite his public image.

[dogknot17@yahoo.co]

My only encounter with Bonds was bad. He acted like a jerk and I was a kid. But that doesn't mean he wasn't a great baseball player. There are many crappy people in all the American sport Hall of Fames.



Bonds is the only "best ever" not to win a Championship. All the other "best ever" in their sport won a title. That is a knock against him for sure, but shouldn't hurt him for that title in a team sport.



In my opinion, Bonds is the best ever. With that said, I agree with his number being retired in SF and not in Pittsburgh.

[Bobster21]

7378707C7978632620576E767F7878397478170 wrote: My only encounter with Bonds was bad. He acted like a jerk and I was a kid. But that doesn't mean he wasn't a great baseball player. There are many crappy people in all the American sport Hall of Fames.



Bonds is the only "best ever" not to win a Championship. All the other "best ever" in their sport won a title. That is a knock against him for sure, but shouldn't hurt him for that title in a team sport.



In my opinion, Bonds is the best ever. With that said, I agree with his number being retired in SF and not in Pittsburgh. 
I would agree that statistically he's the best ever for players age 35-39 who cheated.

[DemDog]

6A61696560617A3F394E776F666161206D610E0 wrote: My only encounter with Bonds was bad. He acted like a jerk and I was a kid. But that doesn't mean he wasn't a great baseball player. There are many crappy people in all the American sport Hall of Fames.



Bonds is the only [highlight]"best ever" not to win a Championship.[/highlight] All the other "best ever" in their sport won a title. That is a knock against him for sure, but shouldn't hurt him for that title in a team sport.



In my opinion, Bonds is the best ever. With that said, I agree with his number being retired in SF and not in Pittsburgh. 


This is fun Dog, blowing your now qualified designation for Bonds as the greatest ever. I have a candidate that will blow away that qualification. One Theodore Samuel Williams. Just take a look at the stats and his 1941 season. Nough said.

[dogknot17@yahoo.co]

65444C654E46210 wrote: My only encounter with Bonds was bad. He acted like a jerk and I was a kid. But that doesn't mean he wasn't a great baseball player. There are many crappy people in all the American sport Hall of Fames.



Bonds is the only [highlight]"best ever" not to win a Championship.[/highlight] All the other "best ever" in their sport won a title. That is a knock against him for sure, but shouldn't hurt him for that title in a team sport.



In my opinion, Bonds is the best ever. With that said, I agree with his number being retired in SF and not in Pittsburgh. 


This is fun Dog, blowing your now qualified designation for Bonds as the greatest ever.  I have a candidate that will blow away that qualification.  One Theodore Samuel Williams.  Just take a look at the stats and his 1941 season.  Nough said.




I wasn't disqualifying Bonds, just pointing it out. Championships are often mentioned when discussing the best ever and people say, "but they didn't win the big one".



Ted Williams is a perfect example. He is mentioned a lot as "best ever" and he also never won a Championship. Also like Bonds, he didn't perform very well in his only post-season. Bonds did have a great 2002 run, especially in the World Series. Outside of that year, Bonds was pretty bad in post-season play.

[rucker59@gmail.com]

0A272A3B3C2D3A7A79480 wrote: My only encounter with Bonds was bad. He acted like a jerk and I was a kid. But that doesn't mean he wasn't a great baseball player. There are many crappy people in all the American sport Hall of Fames.



Bonds is the only "best ever" not to win a Championship. All the other "best ever" in their sport won a title. That is a knock against him for sure, but shouldn't hurt him for that title in a team sport.



In my opinion, Bonds is the best ever. With that said, I agree with his number being retired in SF and not in Pittsburgh. 
I would agree that statistically he's the best ever for players age 35-39 who cheated.




Thank you.

Bonds was a great player who became a Hulk-like freak and made a mockery of a great game while also managing to be one of the great lairs and jerks of all time as well.



I suspect this is some attempt by the Giants to “rehabilitate” Bond’s legacy before the Hall runs out. I hope the rest of BB rejects this as nonsense.

[dogknot17@yahoo.co]

To me, Bonds is the poster child for that era of cheaters. He and A-Rod were attacked liked no one else. It was probably due to the fact that they could (and did) break records.



I am not defending Bonds and the cheaters. But there were hundreds of players on that Mitchell Report. Many were very good players and said to be future hall of famers. Bonds stuck to "sleeping pills" according to the report and he said the team knew what he was taking. I, personally, don't believe him, but he was never caught or tested positive for anything.



The Pirates still bring back Kevin Young for instruction and fan festivals. Young was a nice guy, no one really cares that he cheated.



Frank Thomas was just elected to the Hall of Fame. He was never caught, but many think he used a substance. He was still crushing the ball in his late 30's.



I really have no answers for that era. Can you really erase it from baseball history? There are way to many assumptions in my opinion. Baseball let it happen. Do we all agree that they knew it was happening? I understand both sides of the debate.

[DemDog]

5358505C5958430600774E565F5858195458370 wrote: My only encounter with Bonds was bad. He acted like a jerk and I was a kid. But that doesn't mean he wasn't a great baseball player. There are many crappy people in all the American sport Hall of Fames.



Bonds is the only [highlight]"best ever" not to win a Championship.[/highlight] All the other "best ever" in their sport won a title. That is a knock against him for sure, but shouldn't hurt him for that title in a team sport.



In my opinion, Bonds is the best ever. With that said, I agree with his number being retired in SF and not in Pittsburgh. 


This is fun Dog, blowing your now [highlight]qualified designation for Bonds as the greatest ever.[/highlight]  I have a candidate that will blow away that qualification.  One Theodore Samuel Williams.  Just take a look at the stats and his 1941 season.  Nough said.




I wasn't disqualifying Bonds, just pointing it out.  Championships are often mentioned when discussing the best ever and people say, "but they didn't win the big one". 



Ted Williams is a perfect example.  He is mentioned a lot as "best ever" and he also never won a Championship.  Also like Bonds, he didn't perform very well in his only post-season.  Bonds did have a great 2002 run, especially in the World Series.  Outside of that year, Bonds was pretty bad in post-season play.


I guess you missed the point again Dog, perhaps instead of the highlighted phrase I should have used "you are changing the rules now about what type of "greatest ever" player Bonds is. I think you need to do a bit of research or just use some common sense when you make statements like you have done twice now about Bonds.



I do believe his is closer to being the greatest player never to win a championship that just greatest ever. No doubt that the steroid era and Bond's crazy change of physique have tainted his accomplishments and have hindered his getting into the HOF.